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TwiceAHuman said:
I see. Well, they are still biologically speciliased to a specific role and don't willingly cooperate, but rather futhfill their preprogrammed role. We can remember the exploding ants, for instance. Whilist I agree that it's been a while since I read anything about ants, it is true that they have the same genome and thus same potential before they get specialised. Reminds me of body cells, really. Besides, it is common for heirs to kill the current hive "leader", we can take bumble bees for instance. But I see what you mean, thank you.
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There's definitely some funky succession stuff that can go down in eusocial hives, yeah, and the biological wiring of castes imparts certain behaviours, absolutely. The important thing to remember is that neither of those are in service to an individual- the entire reason "swarm intelligence" is so interesting as a field of research to many people is that its an emergent property of a complex system and that its very, very good at solving certain types of problem. Ants and bees have pretty much mastered the Travelling Salesman logistics problem, not through any form of overseeing intelligence that can consider or direct around it, but simply through the independent actions of many, many agents working off of their limited awareness of each other's actions.

This is all why I'm so keen on keeping the distinction between a "hive mind" as popularized by pop-culture media and the actual behaviour and reality of eusocial organisms separate- the very use of "hive mind" as a term is damaging to how people understand the behaviour of IRL hives.
 
i bet when you go on the bio ascension path and get the ability to add pops to your hive mind that you will get a new "assimilation" wargoal, just like they merged purge and cede to a cleanse wargoal
 
smjjames said:
No, a hive mind or swarm intelligence isn't what ants and bees are. In fact, bees are quite independent and capable of independent learning: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170223142100.htm (okay, bumblebees, not 'bees'), there is no evidence of any sort of psychic link that connects all of them where they share the same 'mind'.
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Idon't think you understood the point of my post and you managed to directly contradict the person you were trying to support.
 
BlackUmbrellas said:
I'm really not, and that's the problem. Pop-culture is the ruling definition of what a "hive mind" is, and its a definition entirely inaccurate to actual eusocial animals. Using it in relation to them limits how people think about them and how they understand them, whereas the reality can be far more interesting.
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I disagree that the definition as conceptualized by you is the definition as conceptualized by most people.
 
@BlackUmbrellas is right about how ants work. The queen does not order anyone around, there is no shared "mind". It is swarm intelligent, from relatively simple behaviour at the individual level, complex behaviour emerge at the swarm level.

On a somewhat related topic this what can be done with swarm intelligence and robots: https://wyss.harvard.edu/technology/swarm-robotics-kilobots/

Something we are more likely to see outcome in our everyday life during our life time, than strong AI.
 
Avian Overlord said:
"Eusocial" would be a nice trait, but I'm not sure what it would do. Maybe Pops would specialize for their tile, with a short term penalty for switching?
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Maybe Syncretic Evolution could reflect a worker/warrior caste if the species portrait of the "servant" race is close enough to the dominant species.

BlackUmbrellas said:
There's definitely some funky succession stuff that can go down in eusocial hives, yeah, and the biological wiring of castes imparts certain behaviours, absolutely. The important thing to remember is that neither of those are in service to an individual- the entire reason "swarm intelligence" is so interesting as a field of research to many people is that its an emergent property of a complex system and that its very, very good at solving certain types of problem. Ants and bees have pretty much mastered the Travelling Salesman logistics problem, not through any form of overseeing intelligence that can consider or direct around it, but simply through the independent actions of many, many agents working off of their limited awareness of each other's actions.

This is all why I'm so keen on keeping the distinction between a "hive mind" as popularized by pop-culture media and the actual behaviour and reality of eusocial organisms separate- the very use of "hive mind" as a term is damaging to how people understand the behaviour of IRL hives.
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The Hivers of Sword of the Stars have a single Queen and hundreds of "Princesses" who can spawn every other caste but female breeders, only the Queen can produce new Princesses. And when a Queen dies her daughters have a civil war, the winner eats her ovaries and becomes the new Queen. They're not hive-minded though, each Hiver is an individual who just really loves his mother.
 
Zarpaulus said:
The Hivers of Sword of the Stars have a single Queen and hundreds of "Princesses" who can spawn every other caste but female breeders, only the Queen can produce new Princesses. And when a Queen dies her daughters have a civil war, the winner eats her ovaries and becomes the new Queen. They're not hive-minded though, each Hiver is an individual who just really loves his mother.
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That's certainly some fun fiction, I'm just not sure how its relevant besides a psuedorelated factoid.
 
Wiz said:
Hive Minds are species where the individuals are all part of the same, vast, psionically linked consciousness. The Immortal Hive Mind rules absolutely over the population of non-sentient worker drones, using sentient 'Autonomous Drones' (Leaders) to extend the reach of its will.
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Nice! But should Hive Mind homeworlds have sprawling slums as tile blockers, then? :confused:
 
Person012345 said:
I disagree that the definition as conceptualized by you is the definition as conceptualized by most people.
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It's seems to common enough. And the conflation between hive mind and eusocial seems to be common as well.
 
Person012345 said:
I disagree that the definition as conceptualized by you is the definition as conceptualized by most people.
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BlackUmbrellas provided NUMEROUS quotes from this very thread alone of people assuming rl insect hives worked more or less like the fantasy Stellaris hiveminds (minus the psychic part, but still believing that drones were controlled by an individual). Just on the last page, someone chimed in with the mistaken belief that rl insect hives were under the 'control' of 'individual' queens! They very graciously accepted correction.

At this point, you've just got your head in the sand, blatantly lying because you are so unwilling to admit you were wrong. Many, many people DO think rl insect hives are literally feudal or something. There have been plenty of examples. And you keep flatly denying this happens - ironically, because you falsely believe everyone else shares YOUR definition.
 
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