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Stellaris Dev Diary #85: Decadence and Ascension Path Changes

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is the last dev diary for the 1.8 'Čapek' update, and will be going over the introduction of Awakened Empire Decadence and some changes coming to the three Ascension Paths and Megastructures. Decadence is a free feature in the 1.8 update, while the Ascension Path and Megastructure changes require the Utopia expansion.

Awakened Empire Decadence
Awakened Empires were added to the game as a way of throwing a new challenge at the player in the late-game. They are intended to be formidable foes, and only the absolutely most powerful player empires are meant to be able to take them on alone. However, this could lead to an unintended game state where the Awakened Empire had conquered or subjugated all regular empires and effectively 'won', with the player being stuck as an AE subject until the end of time. In order to address this, we've added a new mechanic called Decadence for Awakened Empires. Decadence is effectively a meter, going from 0 to 100, that starts filling up for Awakened Empires once a certain amount of time has passed since awakening. The larger they are (both in terms of owned planets and subjugated empires), the faster it builds up. Decadence reduces Awakened Empire resource income and fleet power, and also increases the rebelliousness of their subjects, and has very large penalties at high levels of Decadence. What this means it that while an Awakened Empire might start very strong, and grow even stronger as they expand, that very expansion will eventually turn into decline, until they're weakened to the point where the rest of the galaxy can rebel and overthrow them - if you end up their subject, you just have to be patient, build up your forces, and wait for the right moment to take back your freedom. Awakened Empires have also been changed so that they prefer to subjugate other empires (though still taking some planets as well) to conquering them outright, so there should always be a collection of subjects chafing under the precursor yoke and biding their time.
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Ascension Path Changes
One of the most loved features in Utopia is the Ascension Paths - the ability to choose an 'end goal' for your empire and species in the form of Psionic, Synthetic or Biological Ascension. However, the decision to restrict the Psionic and Synthetic paths based on ethics was less popular, and though I think the reasoning for it is sound (making ethics more diverse), this is a case where I think there is a valid case to say that balance should take a step back in favor of letting the player decide the path or their own empire. For this reason, we've lifted the Spiritualist-only restriction on psionics and have opened up for Spiritualists to research robotics and synthetically ascend. We have also removed the Materialist-only restriction on AI Citizen Rights.

To compensate for this loss, Spiritualists have received a buff in the form of stronger Temples, and Materialists have been given a new living standard called 'Academic Privilege' that boosts happiness and research output at the cost of more consumer goods. However, though we've lifted the hard restriction, the impact of the ascension paths on ethics attraction and faction happiness remain. This means that, for example, a Spiritualist empire that decides to Synthetically Ascend will have significant troubles with unhappy factions and materialist ethics drift, and similarly, the pursuit of Psionics will cause increased Spiritualist attraction and the likely creation of a strong Spiritualist faction.

In addition to these more general changes, there's a few more path-specific changes and additions:
Psionic: Buffed traits and Psi Corps building, and added an alert to tell you when the Shroud is ready for use. Additionally, psionically awakening other species in your empire now happens more often.
Synthetic: Added the ability to assimilate new biological pops into synthetic bodies, and the addition of robomodding significantly buffs this path. Synthetic and Cyborg leader traits were nerfed a bit to compensate.
Biological: Increased the total trait points by 1, and reduced the cost of advanced traits such as Robust.
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Megastructure Changes
The headline feature of Utopia was the Megastructures, massive constructions requiring tens of thousands of minerals and decades to construct. A frequent criticism we have received for the Megastructures is that they simply do not feel significant enough, with comments on how the Dyson Sphere should realistically be producing millions of energy, and so on. We've made some changes in 1.8 that we hope will address some of these complaints, though I want to preface this by saying that Megastructures are not and will never be 'realistic', nor is Stellaris meant to be a realistic game in the first place. However, they are meant to feel impressive and special, and when a handful of Habitats with solar power processors can match a Dyson Sphere in output, that impressiveness tends to fade, no matter whether it's actually balanced or not.

For this reason, we have decided to make a change to the Dyson Sphere and Science Nexus. Both of these Megastructures have been majorly buffed, with a finished Dyson Sphere now producing 1000 energy and a fully upgraded Science Nexus outputting a total of ~750 science. However, they have been changed so that each empire can now only build one of each, similar to the Sentry Array. This means that they can be very powerful without having to massively increase the build time or cost to prevent them from simply being spammed. Ringworlds have not been changed, and can be built in any number you want, indirectly buffing the effectiveness of the Circle of Life perk.

Additionally, we've made a tweak to the Master Builders perk. This perk, when taken, will now give you the Mega-Engineering technology if you do not already have it, similar to how World Shaper gives Atmospheric Manipulation and Mastery of Nature gives blocker techs. This allows for reliable access to Mega-Engineering for empires that want to focus on Megastructure construction.
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That's all for today! Next week we'll post the full patch notes for 1.8 and Synthetic Dawn. See you then!
 
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Only 6? That's rough, considering that Power Plant IVs will have 5 and benefit from the Energy Grid/Nexus, tile bonuses and adjacency bonuses.
Ehhhh, maybe some more things were changed...
...look forward to the next Dev Diary.
;)
 
Only 6? That's rough, considering that Power Plant IVs will have 5 and benefit from the Energy Grid/Nexus, tile bonuses and adjacency bonuses.
With 8 all-energy habitats are real monsters as is. I don't think 6 is that low. Keep in mind that Wiz said that base buildings got reduced (and tile bonuses increased), so PP IV may no longer be 5.
I agree that HMs deserve a bit more depth to their mechanics. Devouring Swarm is neat but standard Hives just feel a bit hollow.
They will get some unique traditions in 1.8.
 
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No, it's terrible news. The biggest problem with this game is that empires already play too similar. We may as well just replace the names and faces with empire 1, 2, 3.

This is, indeed a problem. I mean, I've read the replies about the reasoning behind the unlock of ascension path, and they do make sense, specially regarding psiquic powers, yes.

However, I think that if something as massively relevant as ascension paths are not going to differenciate each ethos, then something else as equally influential must replace them. And by "different" I mean "offer entirely different mechanics". It doesn't matter if said mechanics and differenciation are introduced via ethic specific civics, traditions, technologies or warfare (or a combination of them), but right now empires and even opposing ethos are just too similar, and many of the late design decisions have increased said similarity.

That could easily solved by introducing more mechanic-unlocking traits. The main problem is that all bonuses are numerical in nature.

This post X 1000
 
Any chance a full blown decadent AE get a Tribal Rebellion? An Invasion from a Desert Planet with a very high Fleet power?
Interesting, I know what you meant.

Could you imagine if the ruler of the spiritualist AE can get rid of the Decadent trait by going on the Hajj to their Holy Worlds?
 
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I did keep that in mind. Power Plant IVs are +6 Energy right now. They will be +5 Energy in 1.8.

Wow, that's a nerf to high tech Tall/Small Empires indeed, since they get this Tech and makes use of it alot earlier then any other kind of empires. Guess I'll need that Dyson's Sphere asap.

More ressources on planets is benefitting wide the most I'd say, so that won't relatively be to helpfull for my supremely tall tech build.
 
How is that artificial barrier any different from artificially limiting empires to 5 Art Monuments from the Artists.
the fact that we have no interes to have many art monument.... the megastructure are a win more, a endgame feature, and some gameroler like to build tons of them. Anyway is true that actualy there is no other choise to make them balanced so is good for the moment
 
Gene Ascension has access to "Erudite", which boosts leader levels. It's not *as* big of a benefit as the special traits, but certainly more useful now, since the potential max level cap was increased to 10. Together with some of the other ascension trait nerfs and some misc changes, the gap has gotten quite a bit smaller.
No? Seriously no? Gene Moddin is inferior in pretty much every damn regard. There is zero reason to make it inferior for leaders too. And Erudite is craptastic. The 20% bonus is the baseline Synthethic bonus. The +1 is meaningless. Amongst all the boni which already exist and those who are now introduced it's barely a blip. Worse yet, as Bio pops DIE and it takes them forever to reach their full potential anyway you will most of the time have lower level leaders than immortal machines have them anyway. In theory being able to "level up once more!" has zero effect when mostof the time you wont hit that anyway!

One change that wasn't mentioned (yet), but should be taken into consideration is that Solar Power Plants had their output reduced to 6 (down from 8) and Habitat Labs had their upkeep increased to 3 (up from 2). (Apparently the latter went already live a while back.) :)
GODDAMN WHY?! You're not making other mega structures more competitive. You're making the only one that is currently decent CRAP. Habitats are all around worse planets. With no starport, hugely gutted mineral/food output. Which will NEVER be bigger than 12 slot planets. Planets many people wouldn't even settle.

You already nerfed solar power processors once, from 10 to 8. In turn you increased the asteroid mining bay. Which nobody is going to build anyway. Now you are gutting them. You are reducing them to to the efficiency of regular power plants. Who have boni such as the Nexus going for them which boost them quite considerably and can be build on vastly bigger planets. And you have the audacity to end this with a frigging smily.

If I sound angry, it's because I am. I've been with this game from the initial release. And you guys are blundering around in the dark. You are introducing nerfs that make zero sense and nobody asked for. You are changing stuff that does nothing while still refusing to give us even basic convenience tools such as an auto upgrade feature. People had to scream at you forever till you even acknowleged problems such as naked corvettes. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU PEOPLE DOING?!
 
Well, when you have calmed down we might be able to talk properly about this.
 
This is, indeed a problem. I mean, I've read the replies about the reasoning behind the unlock of ascension path, and they do make sense, specially regarding psiquic powers, yes.

However, I think that if something as massively relevant as ascension paths are not going to differenciate each ethos, then something else as equally influential must replace them. And by "different" I mean "offer entirely different mechanics". It doesn't matter if said mechanics and differenciation are introduced via ethic specific civics, traditions, technologies or warfare (or a combination of them), but right now empires and even opposing ethos are just too similar, and many of the late design decisions have increased said similarity.

Let's say we take out empire customization, and we create 8 premade "playstyles" but you can slap graphics on them.
Let's name them after the ethics.

Is there enough content to differentiate them? Definitely
Not cut up those 8 premade empires into itty bits like race traits, ethics, civics, traditions, ascensions etc.
Is there enough content? Nope.
Why? Because every choice got smaller and smaller as you added more. Each choice gets less and less distinct. % bonuses alone can create unique identities if they are rare and large enough.
 
Well, when you have calmed down we might be able to talk properly about this.
I was entirely calm for pretty much two years. And you guys were ignoring any and all feedback of any kind. Now once again you are pretty much doing something completely unecessary and unasked for. While happily ignoring glaring issues. The only response one gets are usually flippant such as this one or outright silence.

One can put exactly into words why bio ascension is bad and why the changes you introduce wont save it. One can run the numbers up using a frigging calculator and write them down in a spreedshet. You guys are going to entirely ignore it.

Then you go and hit something with a hammer that does not need nor deserve it. In this case you are basically keen on killing habitats for good. Ignoring all their downsides as you turn them into worse 12 tile planets that are exceedingly expensive. By introducing a second nerf to solar collectors.


This is like Wiz being angry that people split their three starting corvettes and use them to scout. Something nobody but him is bothered by. That has been done since the game was released and has good reasons. Now he seems hell bend on "fixing it".
 
Let's say we take out empire customization, and we create 8 premade "playstyles" but you can slap graphics on them.
Let's name them after the ethics.

Is there enough content to differentiate them? Definitely
Not cut up those 8 premade empires into itty bits like race traits, ethics, civics, traditions, ascensions etc.
Is there enough content? Nope.
Why? Because every choice got smaller and smaller as you added more. Each choice gets less and less distinct. % bonuses alone can create unique identities if they are rare and large enough.

A lot of this can be addressed by creating events that trigger for your empire based not only on ethics but on certain traits, and also by adjusting tech-weights based on certain traits. Certain trait types should also produce certain types of leaders. For Example:

Talented Pops: Increases tech-weights towards 'Leadership' buildings (planetary capitals, military academies, etc.) , as well as techs that increase leadership levels and efficiency (Those that don't have to do with genetics). Events may trigger when you have certain buildings that produce more leaders (your military academies may grant you a chance to produce free generals or admirals, for example).

I think the goal with the dev team is to move away from flat numbers-based rewards, and I think small things like that will improve the game, and that's the kind of thing that needs to be modded in or added over time.
 
Energy grids in habitats confirmed? :eek:
Actually - no.
But I think the galactic community has finally figured out how to put Mineral Silos on Habitats (if that change actually made it in).