[Ex Mudder]

Also, while I agree that the food mechanic isn't all that realistic, in the end this is still a game. Having your population growth be resource dependant provides solid game-play, and calling that resource 'food' is traditional and will make more intuitive sense to most players.

I liked how Endless Space described "food" as everything needed to support life, or some such. Not sure what else to call it. Biosphere? Life support?

 

[EntropyAvatar]

3. Empire-Wide Warehouse. No. This is just plain silly.

Yeah, this doesn't seem ideal. I guess it's a question of where they choose to spend their complexity.

4. One pop per tile. This actually doesn't appear to be the case. In the first screenshot there are 5 settled tiles. 1 lacks a city and is less productive. 1 of the cities appears denser and more productive than the others. Apparently the race icon shows who lives there and the city icon shows how many and how developed.

That's not how I read it. I think the "cities" are buildings. Three are some kind of farm, one some kind of power plant. The central farm may be a colony capital of some sort. But I suspect it's more-upgraded farm with two adjacency bonuses instead of one, and built on a tile with resources. So the underlying tile has one mineral and one food. The farm adds four food and the two bonuses add two of each of what it was producing.

 

[aitaituo]

I liked how Endless Space described "food" as everything needed to support life, or some such. Not sure what else to call it. Biosphere? Life support?

I believe Vicky 2 called these life/everyday/luxury needs. This is always going to be handled by a significant amount of the workforce.

 

[Heatth]

4. One pop per tile. This actually doesn't appear to be the case. In the first screenshot there are 5 settled tiles. 1 lacks a city and is less productive. 1 of the cities appears denser and more productive than the others. Apparently the race icon shows who lives there and the city icon shows how many and how developed.

That was what I thought at first, but notice that the tiles more productive are the ones with a building in the background. I originally thought that was just a graphic representation of density at first, but then I realized it could be buildings. And, indeed, these tiles that are close together have an arrow with a plus, which I think represent adjacency bonuses (which would explain why the middle tile is the most productive).

Sadly, there is no actual indication that there can be more than one pop per tile. That would be my hope, but the screenshots are not actually showing that.

5. Command Economy. I think the actions of the player represent not only the government, but also the sum of individual decisions by the people. The actions of the civilization as a whole. This is an abstraction. As a player I don't want my guys going left and right doing things I can't control. That was a major problem in MoO3: things you had literally no control over. I want to be able to directly control anything in my civilization, or turn it over to an AI following my guidelines.

You complain that empire wide resources are a "no, just no" level of unrealistic and, yet, you want to have absolute control over all your empire. That is a very strange logic. It is just a matter of preference in the end. Personally, I would be the opposite. I don't mind empire wide storage (although I can see value of representing trade routes), but I much prefer if I am not in absolute control of my empire. I never played MoO3, but that is the sort of thing that make me love CK2. I want to struggle to keep my empire working and I want the possibility of it breaking away or occasionally helping me in ways I don't expect. As long as I have enough control so to feel my role is no passive and my gameplay matters, I want some independent actions.

 

[Knightfall52]

I don't love the idea either but guys, the gal civ thing and this has 2 major differences, pops and governors.

So if pops want certain things to happen, push/ask for them and governors push/ask for an approach and your overarching galactic policy favors a different approach you have a lot of game play meat. especially if micromanagement is not required because buildings can and will be built without your intervention according to the aims of ai components and not a sub optimal developer chosen que.

Having to balance the requests of your people (pops and chars or even other nations in federations) against the needs of your war-machine or your research can be an awesome part of the gameplay and is at far more engaging (if it doesnt end up being stupid by the fact you can flat out ignore 99% of the time the requests or you can only ignore them in 1% of the situations) than simply choosing a worlds specialization or even be denied choice because a certain world can only be optimized a single way...

Here is an example: The planet Secundus 4 that has been for a long time a huge industrial complex received a major influx of workers from the minority race you uplifted and have been a part of your empire for a while now that are heavily spiritualistic while the vast majority of your worlds are heavily materialistic this workers request that a tile of the planet is turned from an industrial complex to a cultural forum in accordance to their beliefs because some archaeological findings in the area seem to convince them that their ancestors may have lived on that planet, that could hamper the worlds industrial value significantly because the area sits in the middle of all the adjecency network but the cultural value of it should increase the influx of tourists, researchers and immigrants making the planet more productive in other categories and is a choice that would be apprecited by the more spiritual members of your federation. Now taking that path, could anger your materialistic pops heavily on that planet leading to conflicts and generally create issues on other planets and with diplomacy.

edit: oh man i missed the part about pops been civ like. Meh this botched most of my hopes for the game.....

 

[SIEGE-109]

People only say the pops are civlike because they saw that screen with the pictures of pops, but no detailed information. People assumed that if they couldn't see the information that it wasn't there and the pops didn't have traits, wants, etc. I think the screen doesn't even show you how many pops there are, only which areas are settled.

 

[yerm]

Here's what's wrong : Say you want to be a scientist, as a native of Omaggus 3. You've wanted to since you were a kid. But you can't be a scientist, because there are no such jobs on Omaggus 3. In fact, the only place in the empire where science is a viable career is Nullamir, 400 lightyears away, filled with aliens who have a government incompatible with your ideology. They probably don't even speak proper Omaggussian ! On the other hand, Nullamir has masses of uneducated people who sit on their hands, because the whole economy is based around being the research center of the empire and you need a doctorate to get anywhere. Also, Nullamir imports everything from other planets. Somehow it's cheaper to produce it offworld than to employ the inactive locals !
Do you see how silly this is ? This is what specialisation implies. Of course, no 4X has ever dealt with this absurdity.

It's silly because there's no mobility. If I want to be a nuclear engineer, I might have to leave my current town to pursue this career. If I want to be a pilot, I must as well. Movie star? Definitely out of here.

It's absolutely reasonable to have specialized regions. In a game clearly broken down into regions being planets, that would mean specialized planets. The only part that's irrational here is your Omaggun having no way of leaving Omaggus 3 for a university world. This is only a problem when you tie down populations to their local region (planets) like space serfs that cannot leave a manor. Of course it's stupid if implemented that way, because that is effectively modeling all movie stars must be born in California and all day traders must be born in New York, while the poor sap born in the midwest can only ever become a farmer and never leave.

You shouldn't shaft a perfectly reasonable region-specialized galactic economic system just to crutch together an absurd planet-tied serfdom pop system!

 

[Kuschelflummi]

There is one BIG Question left:
When do we get to choose the Cat Aliens as Avatars?

 

[keytium]

There is one BIG Question left:
When do we get to choose the Cat Aliens as Avatars?

It would be fun way to show off the art work if they made a new avatar available each week along with the dev diary.

 

[Xinkc]

YES! A picture of a feline Species! Best DD EVER! :3

I'm glad for them too! I was a little afraid I would not have cat-people to go on a genocidal rampage on.

 

[Kollatius]

*Sighs* On one hand one part of the community is complaining about the game being too complex and the other is complaining about it being too simple... people in a nutshell, never happy

 

[ranbir]

I agree this aspect is very lazy and a sad tale for something that is supposed to be pushing the scifi 4x envelope.

Seems to me Distant Worlds still holds the crown and DW2 will be inheriting it. Growth was tied to overall quality of a colony, which takes in to account more than just 'food'.

Of course, paradox games are always moddable so I'll be surely looking in to replacing these outdated concepts of resources/growth into something sensibly modern,

edit:

In fairness though, given how I've seen EU4 turn out, Paradox are comfortable going a more gamey approach, not simulation because it makes multiplayer competitive gaming easier. I do hold DW as a great simulation and not something I see worth 'gaming' but more just 'running', if that makes sense.

 

[Firestormxxx]

I dont think this will be CIV5 style, where you have to choose where youre people go working.

I think the species picture only shows which species built on the tile and the growth is only the build time, look the selected tile, the light-blue bar is the 15/50 growth.
So i assume that in the planet summary, the real population number is displayed and affect the growth "build time" on an tile, more pop = faster growth on a tile (+ / - species-traints).

And if multi-species planets are possible this "A tile can be worked by having a Pop placed in it" means you can choose a species which will go for the tile. So if you have species A (good farmers) and B (good miners) you choose A for a farm.

 

[Guilu]

You shouldn't shaft a perfectly reasonable region-specialized galactic economic system just to crutch together an absurd planet-tied serfdom pop system!

You completely underestimate the scale of what you're mentionning. A galaxy is not the USA. A planet is not a city. You shouldn't be able to just go to the Horse Nebula like you might take a plane to Detroit. I can't walk 400km without ending up in a different country where they speak a different language and have a different government - and not so long ago, they used a different currency too ! Going from coast to coast in the USA to get a job might seem alright, but would you leave wherever you are to work in Sweden ? Czechia ? Peru ? China ? Saudi Arabia ? It's not just about being able to get there - which is already a problem in itself. These issues are likely to become worse when you're working on an interstellar scale, and indeed we're told that factionalism and separatism will both be major parts of the game.

 

[brobman22]

Wait why are people saying this is going to be like civ im confused the screenshots just look like some interface stuff.

 

[Meraun]

I agree this aspect is very lazy and a sad tale for something that is supposed to be pushing the scifi 4x envelope.

Seems to me Distant Worlds still holds the crown and DW2 will be inheriting it. Growth was tied to overall quality of a colony, which takes in to account more than just 'food'.

Of course, paradox games are always moddable so I'll be surely looking in to replacing these outdated concepts of resources/growth into something sensibly modern,

edit:

In fairness though, given how I've seen EU4 turn out, Paradox are comfortable going a more gamey approach, not simulation because it makes multiplayer competitive gaming easier. I do hold DW as a great simulation and not something I see worth 'gaming' but more just 'running', if that makes sense.

dude, are you out of your mind? You talk about Stellaris wont do taht and taht and be lazy about that.Over a Screenshot? With no information wahtsoever?
Outdated Concept's before you even know that full scale of them?

It seems to me you're extremly Arrogant. Damn taht gets me raging

 

[Meraun]

Wait why are people saying this is going to be like civ im confused the screenshots just look like some interface stuff.

because they are a hughe Smartass.

 

[Tim_Ward]

*Sighs* On one hand one part of the community is complaining about the game being too complex and the other is complaining about it being too simple... people in a nutshell, never happy

They are different people.

 

[Sakul A.]

I must say, that i'm also a little disapointed about this dd.
The reason is mostly that i expected something different and an other focus.
The topic is planets and resources and we don't realy learned something new about that.
We allready knew that there will be planet tiles and that you will need pops to work on them (well not in that combination but some devpost talked about planet tiles others about pops).
I hoped to read something about the mechanics of planetmanagement and not just you got pop units and order them to work a tile and their is a synergy between some tiles and some have bonuses.
The other dd give you some information and then let you speculate about the details.
This one just says hey we have pops and you can order them to work tiles.
Hey we have this resources and you use them for this things.
Hey if you have a planet with resources but you can't colonise it, just built an miningstation in its orbit.
There is not really room for speculation, now.

Also one thing i'm disapointed about is, that with this dd it seems like the whole economic systems are pretty simple and not that complex.
There may be just three main resources and thats it.
Pops seems to be just abstract units instead of numbers.
Everything seems so simple that i can't really believe that this should be another paradox grand strategy game. Instead it looks like another standard 4X game like so many others before.
I was just hoping for more but nonetheless i played a lot of those other games an they were fun to, so this must not be a bad thing, but since this monday it doesn't look like Stellaris is the game i was hoping it could be. Not your fault, maybe we are just to demanding (if this is the correct word for it)

 

[yerm]

You completely underestimate the scale of what you're mentionning. A galaxy is not the USA. A planet is not a city. You shouldn't be able to just go to the Horse Nebula like you might take a plane to Detroit. I can't walk 400km without ending up in a different country where they speak a different language and have a different government - and not so long ago, they used a different currency too ! Going from coast to coast in the USA to get a job might seem alright, but would you leave wherever you are to work in Sweden ? Czechia ? Peru ? China ? Saudi Arabia ? It's not just about being able to get there - which is already a problem in itself. These issues are likely to become worse when you're working on an interstellar scale, and indeed we're told that factionalism and separatism will both be major parts of the game.

Ironically, actually, this is exactly what often DOES happen! Want to be a scientist, but you are born in the wrong nation? Cross a border. Plenty of scientists, professors, and various other professionals here in the USA came from small countries that simply did not have the infrastructure to support the kinds of programs. The world economy functions rather heavily off the principle that many of these developing nations, especially smaller ones, simply focus/specialize on key areas and trade rather than trying to do everything. The USA is a special example because the economy built up through the gilded age and following WWII developed into basically every branch, so in the USA you basically can go into any field. Meanwhile, people from smaller nations like Peru and Sweden can and do cross international borders to pursue highly specialized roles. I mean hell, look at the Paradox staff, tons of non-Swedes. Look at most good universities for a better example, you'll see scholars from various small nations that don't have the research infrastructure so the aspiring intellectuals relocate. This is normal.

So, again, having planets with pops that are tied exclusively to that planet is unreasonable. What you say does make sense - there need to be rational limits to population mobility - but that does not mean enforcing serfdom. Perhaps allow inter-solar-system movement free, and then have it cost something to have a specialized population relocated outside it? Or set a capped range and have pops tied to a star of origin? Or, honestly, leave serfdom in place AND leave planet specialization in place and have players need to judgment call whether its worth building a lab on a manufacturing world because of a high science pop or maximizing the synergy of adjacency instead. The worst possible solution would be to keep the planetary serfdom of populations and then tie the economic system down to that level where each planet then needs its own farms, manufacturing, culture, science, faith, whatever other resource, in their own individually dependent micro-economies. That would be terrible.