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Stellaris Dev Diary #94 - Ascension Perks & Surveying in Cherryh

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris dev diary. Today's topic was supposed to be ship balance and doomstacks, but because certain things weren't ready to show off yet, we're instead going to be doing a smaller dev diary talking about some changes coming to Ascension Perks and Surveying. We'll get back to the doomstack topic in a couple weeks.

Ascension Perks
Ascension Perks were added in Utopia as the paid component to the Tradition system to create a set of interesting choices for the player to take as they went through the Tradition tree, choosing between simple but powerful bonuses and more elaborate 'unlocks' such as the ascension paths and Megastructures. However, since then we have noticed that this is a system we keep wanting to build on (for example by adding unique Ascension Perks for Machine Empires as we did in Synthetic Dawn), and found the requirement to depend all of this on Utopia too limiting. For this reason, in the Cherryh update, we are going to make the basic Ascension Perks such as Mastery of Nature, Defender of the Galaxy and so on free for everyone. Biological/Psionic/Synthetic Ascension Paths and Megastructure Ascension Perks (including Habitats) will still require Utopia and Machine Empire Ascension Perks will naturally still require Synthetic Dawn (but not Utopia). The core system itself however, will become part of the base game, so everyone will be able to get at least the basic set of Ascension Perks even if they don't own a single piece of DLC.

Surveying & Communications Trading
The way surveying, anomaly generation and star chart trading works has never really worked very well. For one, it's very unclear to players that for example, you cannot discover anomalies in other empires' space, or that star chart trading can actually be a bad idea since it can in some cases stop you from finding anomalies in those systems. For this reason, we've decided to make some changes to the way surveying works. In Cherryh, any system inside the borders of an empire you have communications with will automatically be considered surveyed, without any need to send a science ship into it and waste a bunch of time scanning planets that have no chance of yielding anomalies aynway. There are some exceptions to this, such as Fallen Empires, whose space will need to be surveyed manually and can in fact yield anomalies.

As part of this we have decided to remove Star Chart trading as well as the ability to buy Star Charts from Curators, and instead replace this with the option to trade Communications with another empire - acquiring Communications from an empire in a trade deal will automatically put you in comms with any empires they have comms with that you do not. This should mean that there are no longer any 'traps' in surveying, while also requiring the need to explore every little nook of the galaxy even when that nook is held by your ally since a hundred years back.
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Terra Incognita Changes
Finally, I just wanted to mentioned that we have done some changes to Terra Incognita to make it more clear and make it work properly with bypasses (Wormholes and Gateways). Instead of Terra Incognita being based on which physical pixels on the map your ships have 'seen', it is now based on which systems are considered visited. Visited either means that you have been to the system with a ship, or that the system is inside the borders of an empire that you have communications with. As such, Terra Incognita no longer needs to be manually lifted on empires you have met in order to not make them appear grey and washed out on the map, also making it easier to see important galactic features such as nebulas.
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That's all for today! I know it was a short one, but don't worry, we still have a long way to go and plenty of major things to talk about for Cherryh. However, next week we're actually going to be talking about something that's§ unrelated to Cherryh, but exciting nonetheless. I'm not allowed to spoil what just yet, but stay tuned!
 
Well, all this going to gimp Exploring as a concept a lot (not to mention bonuses you get from it in current version). With default game settings, even on max-sized map you'll run out of the things to survey pretty fast. With addition of "space terrain" with some part of galaxy being cut off in early game, possible exploration is lowered even further. And the exploartion an surveying was one of the major selling points of Stellaris (together with different FTL, btw). Now it's gimped in a major way. Even if i understand why they making this changes, what we will get in return? Most of other planned things are rework of currents mechanics. And not something new.

Don't forget under the current rules systems get claimed FAST. Put up a couple of stations, claim a couple of planets and you can quite easily 'control' 20+ star systems, many of them unsurveyed. Under the new rules only the star systems that have level 0 starbases in (and thus they have been surveyed by the new owner) are the ones that can't be scanned again.

It's the same with starcharts / communications - under the current rules you find out every single star their scientists have every been to, in the new rule set you only find out the specifically claimed systems not all the others IIRC
 
How would this work? Would you have to rescan all of your systems everytime you upgrade your sensors? Would you just be shit oit of luck if you scanned early game with low level scanners? This seems like it would add a ton of busy work for the chance of seeing a few popups. I would just prefer if they added some more mid-late game events/anomolies that can pop up randomly and be dealt with. Like the extra precursor events are right now.

There are several ways to approach it:

  • You could rescan manually whenever sensors are upgraded .. this was my first thought and the idea is that automated science ships should help with this.
  • You could make one initial pass of each planet. Perhaps at low sensor levels an anomaly could be MARKED for later study once you had the right level of tech and/or scientists.
  • Once you got to the right tech level anomalies for study [in your territory] could be automatically marked for study.

Note: I'd rather have more MID game stuff to do also and that would be preferable to the standard anomalies so-to-speak.
 
I'm sorry but I haven't time to read the whole thread now, so I will ask question. It's stupid question but why red empire have green borders? Maybe you could use more darker version of empire's territory color for borders and brighter version for territory? (For example dark red borders and red territory, or opposite). I mean use regular and more saturated version of the same color for each empire. Yes, I know, it's only a map and who cares and so on, but my inner perfectionist is suffering.

We think the border colour is the secondary colour used in the empires logo. Main colour is primary, border is secondary. Randomly generated nations are unlikely to share the combination of the two so it should make the empires more distinct.
 
I'm sorry but I haven't time to read the whole thread now, so I will ask question. It's stupid question but why red empire have green borders? Maybe you could use more darker version of empire's territory color for borders and brighter version for territory? (For example dark red borders and red territory, or opposite). I mean use regular and more saturated version of the same color for each empire. Yes, I know, it's only a map and who cares and so on, but my inner perfectionist is suffering.
Secondary colour is my guess.
 
I'm disappointed in the forum that no mad theories started about this. What is Stellaris related, but not linked to the next patch?
Could Paradox be launching a manned mission to Mars?

It's all good and fine, but i need MORE exploration in this game, not less. It is one of the best parts of the game and what initially make Stellaris stand out of sea of copypasta 4X games. Please make next patch and DLC about exploring the universe, and add content to it in middle and lath phase of the game too.
Exploration would be a great theme for a story pack but my hope is for an Empire interaction (diplomacy, espionage, trade, etc.) centred patch/dlc after Cherryh.
 
Since this new system is going to cut back on surveying, maybe it would be a good idea to extend the Assist Research function to doing longer term surveys that have a chance of generating anomalies and events every so often so the late game doesn't become a grind of waiting for research to finish. Would also make the discovery tree worth something in the long run.
 
With relation to surveying planets held by another empire which hasn't closed borders to you. If there is no point to having your science vessels do this, can you program the Auto Explore function to ignore held space in favour of surveying neutral space no one has yet claimed? I find it tedious having to wait for science vessels to leave another empires space while its science vessels continue to survey neutral systems gaining a potential advantage over the player in territory expansion
 
You have not yet address the compensation part. Now that main selling point of Utopia is gone, what do we get in exchange?

Well, obviously, you get nothing. You won't be compensated for buying the game on full price after release instead of waiting for the 25% sale offer, and you won't be compensated for paid features becoming free. I personally don't mind, but if that bothers you, I strongly recommend that you should always wait for a game of the year edition during a sale ;)
 
So your response to no one trading star charts is forcing everyone to trade star charts automatically? Instead of you know addressing why people didn't like trading star charts.
 
So your response to no one trading star charts is forcing everyone to trade star charts automatically? Instead of you know addressing why people didn't like trading star charts.
I didn't care much about star charts and when I read the reasons people didn't, I missed anomalies and bonus tech. :( Anyway, it's unclear how the New system will impact the discovery tradition
 
The entire survey system, as it is, is far too convoluted.
Some ideas I have;
  • Having anomalies pre-determined on game start, with a slider in game creation, with the exception of precursors.
  • All precursor artifact events should be a random , "pop-up", much like it currently is after you run out of systems to explore.
  • Removing the entire scanning anomalies, then scanning events, instead, just have the event trigger upon entering the system.
  • Removing level requirements.
  • Giving science ship buffs to evasion, emergency ftl, and ftl cooldowns/distances, etc. to replace various tech trees/skills
  • Allowing the AI to scan events.
  • Restricting anomaly events to only being visible if either inside your empire or not within another empire.
 
How about instead of preventing you from finding anomalies on things inside other empires space doing so will simply fire an event for that empire where they are told what you found and ask if they prefer the new yield or would like to keep the old one. Kind of like history can get the option to change RGOs in the Victoria 2 HPM mod.
 
How about instead of preventing you from finding anomalies on things inside other empires space doing so will simply fire an event for that empire where they are told what you found and ask if you prefer the new yield or would like to keep the old one.

Well, there would be only one event, period, you would not be able to re-scan events, so if another empire already scanned it, it is gone.

Edit: The main reason for hiding them would be to prevent the AI from sniping rare events that are within your border and dependent upon tech researched, such as the in limbo event chain, especially if only one empire is able to get it.
 
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Don't forget under the current rules systems get claimed FAST. Put up a couple of stations, claim a couple of planets and you can quite easily 'control' 20+ star systems, many of them unsurveyed. Under the new rules only the star systems that have level 0 starbases in (and thus they have been surveyed by the new owner) are the ones that can't be scanned again.

It's the same with starcharts / communications - under the current rules you find out every single star their scientists have every been to, in the new rule set you only find out the specifically claimed systems not all the others IIRC

On the other hand, the new system will block you out a lot more since everyone uses hyperlanes.
 
you should have special anomalies, that you can research, or something, thank you for giving away to people like me some of utopia, im only beginning to understand what i am missing and i 100% we what i will be missing if i cant pay for your upgrades to the game- people gotta eat though and i want to support you're work, it has me looking out at the stars that's for sure, and i used to believe we were all going to die in a nuclear winter lol
thank you for allowing all players to have their kind of game in this, and thank you for not being afraid to do the system-by-system expansion, it will be much more organic i hope, i will give you time to test it before passing judgment on it but you will hear back.
i love all of the changes in this upgrade+1
PS: we should have more choices for genetic manipulation empires, (next update?)
 
On the other hand, the new system will block you out a lot more since everyone uses hyperlanes.
Actually, with new borders, getting completely walled off will be a lot less likely. It is mainly because of blobby border projection in the current version of the game that empires are able to cover the entire width of a galactic arm just by plopping down a pair of frontier outposts near each other. Now that each and every system must be claimed manually and it costs influence to do so, presumably and hopefully the territorial growth of empires will slow down and neutral space will exist longer.
 
Actually, with new borders, getting completely walled off will be a lot less likely. It is mainly because of blobby border projection in the current version of the game that empires are able to cover the entire width of a galactic arm just by plopping down a pair of frontier outposts near each other. Now that each and every system must be claimed manually and it costs influence to do so, presumably and hopefully the territorial growth of empires will slow down and neutral space will exist longer.

All you need to do is find the chokepoint and voilá...
 
All you need to do is find the chokepoint and voilá...

There will be multiple chokepoints, so you need to claim them all. This will be a massive drain on your influence, so good luck getting any other systems to boost your economy. In the meantime everyone else will be building up their fleets to take your basically undefended chokepoint.