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Tinto Flavour #11 - 21st of March 2025 - Ethiopia

Hello and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Fridays in which we take a look at the content of the super secret Project Caesar!

Today we will be talking about the Empire of Ethiopia! Let’s start without further ado:

The Empire of Ethiopia is an ancient realm rich with history and traditions. Nestled in the Horn of Africa, it boasts lush highlands, plateaus, and the Great Rift Valley. Its beauty is captivated by golden sunsets on the Simien Mountains.

Ethiopia's enchanting tapestry weaves diverse ethnic groups like the Amhara, Afar, and Tigre. United in trials, it remains resilient like the ancient baobab tree, enduring through time.

Inspired by ancient origins, Ethiopia cherishes legendary unions like the Queen of Sheba and King Solomon. The legacy of their son Menelik, the first member of the Solomonid dynasty, echoes through time, connecting this land to ancient Israelites.

Through the years, Ethiopia's epic tale unfolds, shaped by destiny and the unwavering spirit of its people. Triumphs and tribulations weave a rich tapestry of life's ebb and flow.

However, this nation stands as a realm encircled by adversaries eagerly waiting to seize any opportunity to strike. Managing not only to survive but thrive will be a challenge.

Country Selection.png

Please remember that any UI, 2D and 3D art is WIP, as usual.

Ethiopia.png

The Ethiopian Empire is in 1337 the strongest power in the region.

The Sultanate of Ifat starts subjected as a tributary to Ethiopia:
Diplomacy.png

Vassal.png

These are the starting Works of Art for Ethiopia:
Works of Art.png

King Ezana's.png

And these are some advances; I’ve decided to show this week one per age:
Ark of the Covenant.png

Solomonid Claim.png

Prester John.png

A True Ethiopian Church.png

Origin of Coffee.png

Ethiopia also has one of these advances per age, that unlocks a building, and one unique unit per age:
Cawa Regiments.png

Cawa Units.png

Cawa Barracks.png

This is for example the unit for the Age of Renaissance:
Cawa Arquebusiers.png

And this one for the Age of Revolutions:
Cawa Columns.png

Now let’s move to the narrative content since we have some interesting events for Ethiopia.

There’s a unique mechanic for Ethiopia, that can be unlocked early on in the game:
A Wandering Court.png

This may allow to enact this government reform, which will trigger a capital change at the start of each reign:
Wandering Court.png

Some other events:
Lalibela Cross.png


Kebra Negast.png


Ewostatewos Abebe.png

The last option unlocks a unique estate privilege:
Ewostatewos Abebe2.png

Both Days Sabbath.png


Justice of Kings.png

Justice of Kings2.png

Fetha Negest.png


Debere Meshwae.png

Debere Meshwae2.png

…And much more, but that’s all for today, I hope you enjoyed it!

Next week we will have to skip Tinto Flavour, unfortunately, since we have an internal event scheduled on Friday and no one on the team will be available; but we will compensate with a double, intense schedule for the following week. On Monday 31st we will have the Tinto Maps review of Persia and the Caucasus, while on Friday 4th we will take a look at the content for Persia and the Timurids, which includes a starting IO, the Ilkhanate, and a situation, The Rise of Timur. Lots of exciting content is coming! Cheers!
 
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They are more of a blocker if you try to move upstream river Nile. But take this as very WIP, AI behavior is not something we want to talk about more in detail yet.
Even if you just stick to eating up Nubia? I find an Ethiopia looking to the south-east more interesting, but I would love to protect my Nubian brethren
Also, is the capital switch mandatory? Because I feel there should be a downside to this reform, otherwise I can just keep a singular capital and profit from the decreased distance to capital cost.

Anyhow, wonderful TF as always, just came out of a very cool Ethiopia-session in EU4... kept thinking how much better this'll be
 
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Shouldn't the tiering be something like "cultural impact" rather than "art quality" then?

Ranking the quality of art is obviously somewhat subjective, but there are also objective standards... surely a large cathedral with all its intricacies and smaller works of art contained within is objectively "better" than a culturally significant stone?
Another example would be the paintings of Flemish or Italian masters, they are better than what most of the rest of the world could produce at the time period.

If "art quality" is what these works are ranked on, then I'm worried that historical flavor will be lost if works from all over the world are given equal ranks irrespective of the objectively measurable differences in quality.
"Objectively" when it comes to art is a pretty bold call. I'd say that 'ave maria' is objectively better sung in German than Latin, but it doesn't stop people from playing the inferior Latin version on the radio every Christmas.
 
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@Johan @Pavía what is your policy on AI-generated text content? Reading the intro flavour paragraphs made me immediately think it was AI-generated, and four different AI detectors said it was 100% AI-generated.
1742573735988.png


If it's not AI, then I'd be interested in how someone ends up writing in a style that triggers all of these detection websites.

To test the detection, I gave it passages of my thread on the history of steel (which is more similar to flavor text, rather than just a basic forum comment) and it returned 99% human every time.
 
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I feel sad you have to keep reminding the UI is work in progress so that you don't get criticized
Im not sure where you get the impression that it's not that it shouldn't be scrutinised or criticised, just a reminder that what they have isn't 100 percent done and are working on other areas of the game.
 
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Im not sure where you get the impression that it's not that it shouldn't be scrutinised or criticised, just a reminder that what they have isn't 100 percent done and are working on other areas of the game.
They had told this many TT before that it's work in progress yet people still seem to neglect this.
 
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In production methods for debera meshwa there are stated two identical (lumber clay glass) Though one is straigth up more efficient (less lumber and clay)
 
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Advancements so far have been, if I am correct, ideas, concepts, stuff like that. The Ark of the Covenant is an object and an advancement. Why not a work of art?
 
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It may be a bit more difficult to identify in a random tooltip, but the estates have always the same icon, coloring, description, game concept, etc., independent of the flavour name. But we'll consider it, thanks for this feedback.
One option could be to include the estate icon before references to the estate, so text referring to for example the Ulema refers to "Your [church estate icon] Ulema" rather than just "Your Ulema".

Another option: I don't know how the nested tooltip for estates will look, but maybe it would be possible that when you hover the estate's name in a tooltip to view the nested tooltip on them, somewhere below the estate's name in the tooltip there is a quick subtitle or description like "Your Church estate" or "Your [church estate icon] Church estate", using default names for the estates (church/nobility/burghers/commoners/tribes, or whatever else is appropriate). That would probably be less intrusive than the icon and available when needed.

Though I suppose the nested tooltip would include the estate icon and/or other static identifiers, so that might already be doing the needed job...
 
A few questions in no particular order:
- Does Ethiopia get any flavor for the Haymanot Jews in the area?
- Is there anything special if the Ark of the Covenant is somehow moved to Jerusalem?
- Does Ifat have anything to reflect that they were rebelling against Ethiopia, either to take it over or to become independent?
- anything for coffee and coffee rituals that are important in ethiopia?
Interested in the first two of these - particularly the first one.
 
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I think I'm forming a reputation of being relatively knowledgeable on African history, and also very vocal with my criticisms. So I mean it when I say I am pleasantly surprised by this dev diary! Looks like a very thorough handling of Ethiopia. A few notes/questions:

The Sultanate of Ifat starts subjected as a tributary to Ethiopia:
1. This is already in the map feedbacks, but Ifat is far too large on this map; no state, to my knowledge, ever extended from Hararghe to the East African coast.

And this one for the Age of Revolutions:
2. I assume this is for more of an alt-history timeline? Because in real life, Ethiopians continued to use guns as auxiliary weapons, without supplanting swords and spears and the like, well into the modern era.


There’s a unique mechanic for Ethiopia, that can be unlocked early on in the game:
View attachment 1269232
3. It's great that Wandering Capitals have been implemented for Ethiopia, but I'm not sure their current implementation is ideal:
a. What incentive is there actually to move?​
b. What actually differentiates this feature from itinerant capitals, in terms of what it is supposed to represent?​
c. Why is this feature locked to just Ethiopia? Others, more knowledgeable about the rest of the world, have already gone over (at length) how these are actually quite common phenomena around the world.​
d. How do artifact / item events interact with mobile capitals? Like, let's say I get the Lalibela Cross event, and choose to take the cross to my capital. Then, the ruler dies, and I choose for the successor to move the capital. In real history, the "capital" was essentially a camp, so the Emperor and his priests would probably take those items with them as they moved. But would they be taken with the ruler in this system, as well? Or would they stay at the former capital?​

I'm also not sure this implementation really captures what the "wandering capitals" meant in the historic, Ethiopian context. It wasn't just that each emperor tended to found a new capital, it's also that they tended to be mobile between capitals; moving between multiple different sites, and only typically retiring to their "capitals" for brief periods of the year (often, rainy season). This practice was kept up even after Gondar was founded, for a few reigns, and pretty much returned once the state decentralized. It was a real, practical method of rule which was clearly incentivized by other considerations. So, it should be incentivized heavily in-game, even if not perfectly replicated as it happened in real history.

View attachment 1269245
View attachment 1269246

…And much more, but that’s all for today, I hope you enjoyed it!
4. Does this imply church-founding will be a major part of an Ethiopia playthrough? (If so, I hope my map will be littered with them each game, lol; Ethiopia was known for having a true abundance of them in our history, because Emperors, Empresses, noblemen, and monks constantly founded monasteries or other churches buildings (which, conveniently, could also tended to generate income...)

5. Does this imply that there are other monk-events? These were very important in real history; I think of men and women like Walatta Petros, who led a social revolt against the Portuguese presence in Ethiopia during the 17th cenutry. I think it would be reasonable for very conservative clergy members to ferment those kinds of events in the face of too much foreign influence.

6. So, is Tewahedo its own faith in the game? Or is Ethiopia still predominately Coptic / Orthodox, with a culture modifier to represent the difference in the Ethiopian tradition? I ask because in real history, the unique structure of the Ethiopian church (and its distance from Alexandria) created a lot of theological differences and sectarian movements (ie: Karra, Sost Lidet, Ewostathianism, etc), which I think are being represented? But also, the leadership structure was different. The procurement of a head of church was the "Abuna" (appointed from Egypt) was always a major political game in Ethiopia, as was the appointment of the Ichege, his second-in-command (who tended to be an actual Ethiopian/Eritrean, and who was often more influential due to actually being raised in the land). Also, lots of laity... lotssss of laity.

These are the starting Works of Art for Ethiopia:
View attachment 1269215
View attachment 1269217
7. Not sure how many works the average nation starts with, but there could definitely be more in Ethiopia. Sites like the Church of Mary of Zion in Aksum (the original of which was destroyed during Imam Ahmed's invasion) definitely would stand out to me as reasonable WoA, also furthering the cultural and political importance of the ancient town.

The Empire of Ethiopia is an ancient realm rich with history and traditions. Nestled in the Horn of Africa, it boasts lush highlands, plateaus, and the Great Rift Valley. Its beauty is captivated by golden sunsets on the Simien Mountains.

Ethiopia's enchanting tapestry weaves diverse ethnic groups like the Amhara, Afar, and Tigre. United in trials, it remains resilient like the ancient baobab tree, enduring through time.

Inspired by ancient origins, Ethiopia cherishes legendary unions like the Queen of Sheba and King Solomon. The legacy of their son Menelik, the first member of the Solomonid dynasty, echoes through time, connecting this land to ancient Israelites.

Through the years, Ethiopia's epic tale unfolds, shaped by destiny and the unwavering spirit of its people. Triumphs and tribulations weave a rich tapestry of life's ebb and flow.

However, this nation stands as a realm encircled by adversaries eagerly waiting to seize any opportunity to strike. Managing not only to survive but thrive will be a challenge.
8. I would modify this flavour text, if it is in consideration for in-game use:

The Empire of Ethiopia is an ancient realm rich with history and traditions. Nestled in the Horn of Africa, it boasts lush highlands, plateaus, and the Great Rift Valley. Its beauty is captivated by golden sunsets on the Simien Mountains.

Ethiopia's enchanting tapestry weaves diverse ethnic groups like the Amhara, Afar, and Tigre Amhara, Tigre, Tigrinya, and Agaws.[1] United in trials, it remains resilient like the ancient baobab tree Not sure that Baobabs are really associated with Ethiopia in the same way they are with Senegal or Madagascar. I'm sure there's a more culturally specific reference to make here, enduring through time.

[Inspired by ancient origins, Ethiopia cherishes legendary unions like the Queen of Sheba and King Solomon] Perhaps modify this section to highlight that these are the relatively new assertions of the recently ascendant Solomonic dynasty, as far as historians are concerned? I think it's much more interesting as a player to think of Solomonic Ethiopia as a relatively newly united realm that we will be able to guide into the future. The legacy of their son Menelik, the first member of the Solomonid dynasty, echoes through time, connecting this land to ancient Israelites.

Through the years, Ethiopia's epic tale unfolds, shaped by destiny and the unwavering spirit of its people. Triumphs and tribulations weave a rich tapestry of life's ebb and flow.

However, this nation stands as a realm encircled by adversaries eagerly waiting to seize any opportunity to strike. Managing not only to survive but thrive will be a challenge.

[1] While not technically incorrect, I think it's worthwhile to specifically highlight the Agaws, traditionally associated with the recently-deposed Zagwe dynasty, as well as the Tigrinya. Ethiopia also didn't hold that much Afar territory.

View attachment 1269210
Please remember that any UI, 2D and 3D art is WIP, as usual.
9. I notice the flag colours for Ethiopia are Red and White. Usually, Ethiopia is associated with the red-yellow-green tricolor (also the basis for the pan-African / Rastafarian colours). Is there a reason Red/White were chosen?

View attachment 1269210
Please remember that any UI, 2D and 3D art is WIP, as usual.
10. Are you able to port over assets from Victoria 3, at the very least? Yes, they are 19th century, but the Asante garb is so distracting.
1742575645099.png
 
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How is the quality determined?
An obilisk is a masterpiece, but a literal cathedral in Novgorod is only "very good"?
I think the devs are trying to scale the "quality" of the art by its local importance as much as by modern art criticism. Though I don't think that then justifies placing the Great Mosque of Djenne as simply "Great", either. To be fair thuogh, the obelisk is pretty frickin cool.

Yemen should get those.
... why not both?

I'm sorry if I'm ruining the fun here, but some people seem to assume the Ark of the Covenant is a real item that can be moved? I mean, a buff for imagining you have the Ark is one thing, but actually having it is another.
Ethiopians had replicas of the ark called tabot, which were kept in their churches. It is believed that one of these, the one currently held in the church of Mary of Zion in Aksum iirc, is the "real" one.

Very nice TF, but I do hope Ethiopia and the Horn will get their own unique fashion and background art, as they are  quite distinct from West African fashion and art; same for architecture.
West African art and architecture are quite distinct from what they chose :p . I'm not sure why they went with using Asante architecture for representing all of SSA :/ (see here for my feedback on how Africa should be divided)
 
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Ethiopians had replicas of the ark called tabot, which were kept in their churches. It is believed that one of these, the one currently held in the church of Mary of Zion in Aksum iirc, is the "real" one.

How can there be a "real" one if it never existed in the first place?

I'm sure the few top priests in Aksum who are allowed in that church make that claim, but it's still total BS.
 
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