Tinto Flavour #11 - 21st of March 2025 - Ethiopia

[lordvagrant]

Why would you downgrade your Cawa Units to Cawa Arquebusiers? Arquebusiers just seem like a larger, hungrier version of Units with the same combat power. At least Cawa Columns get increased combat power while being even hungrier.

 

[Ispil]

Why would you downgrade your Cawa Units to Cawa Arquebusiers? Arquebusiers just seem like a larger, hungrier version of Units with the same combat power. At least Cawa Columns get increased combat power while being even hungrier.

Maintenance cost is lower by comparison, at least for leather and weapons, per soldier (though you now toss in a firearm cost).

I'd say that the arquebusiers should get higher power but lower initiative; in general I'd say that early firearm units in general should have a mild power improvement over non-gunpowder ranged units of the previous age at the cost of initiative, and then the iterations that improve from them should recover the initiative loss and also push their power further. That way early firearms are actually worse under certain circumstances (namely, when dealing with high-initiative foes like horse archers).

 

[Idle America]

Ethiopian Empire
Ifat

 

[Didjann]

Ashanti clothes for the whole of sub-saharan africa is definetely a choice...
Considering how incredibly far removed Ethiopia is from the Asante region it's kinda like dressing up an Arab in traditional chinese clothes.

 

[lordvagrant]

Maintenance cost is lower by comparison, at least for leather and weapons, per soldier (though you now toss in a firearm cost).

I'd say that the arquebusiers should get higher power but lower initiative; in general I'd say that early firearm units in general should have a mild power improvement over non-gunpowder ranged units of the previous age at the cost of initiative, and then the iterations that improve from them should recover the initiative loss and also push their power further. That way early firearms are actually worse under certain circumstances (namely, when dealing with high-initiative foes like horse archers).

That's part of what doesn't look right.
Is construction/maintenance cost per man? Otherwise it goes from 1 spear per man to 1 spear and 1 gun per 32 men. But then manpower requirement monthly does increase with unit size (to x4/x32). Food storage remains low at 0.6 for each level, but food consumption increases with unit size (to x5/x65). So does the average soldier go from being able to carry 6 months of rations to 2 weeks?

 

[Ispil]

That's part of what doesn't look right.
Is construction/maintenance cost per man? Otherwise it goes from 1 spear per man to 1 spear and 1 gun per 32 men. But then manpower requirement monthly does increase with unit size (to x4/x32). Food storage remains low at 0.6 for each level, but food consumption increases with unit size (to x5/x65). So does the average soldier go from being able to carry 6 months of rations to 2 weeks?

Frankly they shouldn't even be carrying 6 months of rations, period. No one was managing logistics that wild. 10 days of food is the "rule of thumb" any infantryman is gonna be able to carry, after you account for supplies and all the rest of it.

The game added logistics, but I feel that there needs to be much more fine-tuning of the numbers around logistics. The most you should ever be able to "boost the food range" of an army up to a month and a half, by throwing mules and wagons at it and a lot of them at that. Otherwise, armies shouldn't be able to carry a month's supply of food with them in general let alone six.

 

[Nil_Lionel]

Will you do Tinto Flavor for Poland?

 

[nyetflix2]

Ethiopia should be at risk of balkanization and severe decentralization. The invasion of Adal coupled with the Oromo migrations resulted in Ethiopia losing the southern third of its territory. Later on, the core Amhara territory was also effectively balkanized into petty principalities and the emperor was reduced into a figurehead during the Zemane Mesafint/Era of the Princes. So, I hope to see some revolter nations on the borderlands and possibly a Zemane Mesafint disaster.

 

[dot2drippy]

any news on any events regarding the somali kingdoms esp regarding their ancient mercantile traditions and they had trade links with china with even Zheng He vising the somali and bringing back a giraffe as a gift the reigning Chinese emperor

thanks

 

[Erbeilas]

It appears that the caron ( ̌ ) above the Ç in "Ç̌äwa" isn't rendering properly. It's mashed together with the Ç.
Diacritics are tricky, and Ç̌ is a particularly rare combination. Should be an easy fix though.

 

[tebra]

How is the quality determined?
An obilisk is a masterpiece, but a literal cathedral in Novgorod is only "very good"?

Are you questioning power of diversity?

 

[Sapa Inca]

Does Oromo migration is a possible event later ih the game?

 

[yangzilata]

Well, anyone remember the history of Muhammad Ali’s expansion? Honestly, what really interests me is what Ethiopia was up to in all this. Here's my take:

While Muhammad Ali was busy pushing his armies south, Ethiopia wasn’t getting involved in any of that.
They were more focused on keeping their own turf safe and sticking to their traditions rather than signing treaties or buddying up with him. Kind of a shame—there’s no extra flavour added here. :/

No Treaty or Big Diplomatic Moves
There’s nothing out there showing Ethiopia making any solid deals with Ali’s wild and eccentric regime. They were probably and basically just saying “back off” to any Egyptian intruders and keeping their distance. No handshakes—just doing their own thing.

Local Resistance? Any? - Yes, Coptic People, I Mean
Instead of playing nice, Ethiopia was all about defending their territory. They weren’t trying to protect local Coptic groups or take on a protector role. It was just a matter of standing up for themselves. That’s a neat point to add: they weren’t protectors of the Copts—even in their golden age, they didn’t act like that. Correct me if I’m wrong here. So, no defender of faith mechanic for Coptic Ethiopia! no?

---

Game Ideas Focusing on Ethiopia and Coptic Anschluss

Border Tension
How about random border clashes where Ethiopian fighters show up and make it crystal clear they’re not about to be pushed around? No big treaties, just raw, real resistance. These could be special, mission-based incursions—maybe even a chain of missions.

• Culture Clash Vibes
  Imagine Ethiopian leaders rallying their people (even under foreign pressure) using their own unique traditions and units. Instead of the usual fancy diplomatic talks, we could introduce special rebel units inspired by these traditions. What do you think?
• Local Voices and Stories – Agitators?
  Throw in some side quests or events where local Ethiopian communities have to deal with the fallout from the invasions. It could affect estates and their loyalties. Maybe Muhammad Ali’s regime even tries to win over these estates with gold (gold mines of Egypt?), using them as agents to break up Ethiopian resistance—kind of like an “Anschluss” event. Egypt being largely Coptic and Ethiopia’s deep Orthodox roots might even provide an excuse or pretext for unifying these groups under one banner. (I know, it’s a bit of a stretch—correct me if I’m off here.) to do that, just we need to find out translation of Anschluss word in Ethiopian.

So, what do you reckon?

 

[matfer13]

Looking at the Çäwa arquebusiers unit size, I think that they are a Age of Discovery unit rather than Reinassiance one

 

[alopezme]

The moving capital mechanism can also appla to Burgundy. I think the had no official capital but the ruler actual location was the capital....

 

[livebythecreed77]

Well, anyone remember the history of Muhammad Ali’s expansion? Honestly, what really interests me is what Ethiopia was up to in all this. Here's my take:

While Muhammad Ali was busy pushing his armies south, Ethiopia wasn’t getting involved in any of that.
They were more focused on keeping their own turf safe and sticking to their traditions rather than signing treaties or buddying up with him. Kind of a shame—there’s no extra flavour added here. :/

No Treaty or Big Diplomatic Moves
There’s nothing out there showing Ethiopia making any solid deals with Ali’s wild and eccentric regime. They were probably and basically just saying “back off” to any Egyptian intruders and keeping their distance. No handshakes—just doing their own thing.

Local Resistance? Any? - Yes, Coptic People, I Mean
Instead of playing nice, Ethiopia was all about defending their territory. They weren’t trying to protect local Coptic groups or take on a protector role. It was just a matter of standing up for themselves. That’s a neat point to add: they weren’t protectors of the Copts—even in their golden age, they didn’t act like that. Correct me if I’m wrong here. So, no defender of faith mechanic for Coptic Ethiopia! no?

---

Game Ideas Focusing on Ethiopia and Coptic Anschluss

Border Tension
How about random border clashes where Ethiopian fighters show up and make it crystal clear they’re not about to be pushed around? No big treaties, just raw, real resistance. These could be special, mission-based incursions—maybe even a chain of missions.

• Culture Clash Vibes
  Imagine Ethiopian leaders rallying their people (even under foreign pressure) using their own unique traditions and units. Instead of the usual fancy diplomatic talks, we could introduce special rebel units inspired by these traditions. What do you think?
• Local Voices and Stories – Agitators?
  Throw in some side quests or events where local Ethiopian communities have to deal with the fallout from the invasions. It could affect estates and their loyalties. Maybe Muhammad Ali’s regime even tries to win over these estates with gold (gold mines of Egypt?), using them as agents to break up Ethiopian resistance—kind of like an “Anschluss” event. Egypt being largely Coptic and Ethiopia’s deep Orthodox roots might even provide an excuse or pretext for unifying these groups under one banner. (I know, it’s a bit of a stretch—correct me if I’m off here.) to do that, just we need to find out translation of Anschluss word in Ethiopian.

So, what do you reckon?

I hate the ai slop you post here. I don't want to sound mean but at least proof read what you prompt and edit it down. I actually don't bother read anything you post anymore. It doesn't even sound like you even put any thought into this and machine translated this like you claimed in another thread.

 

[crowdemon]

Good dev diary on Ethiopia.

 

[viola]

Why is it reductive? It's a stone with carvings, is it not?

It's a 24 meters tall stone made of a single rock that weighted several tons, as people have been trying to explain you.

A pyramid isn't just a pile of stones, because the stones have to be arranged carefully.

Yeah, and you can't arrange the stones carefully with that obelisk because it's made out of a solid piece of stone that then was erected without it breaking. That's where the engineering difficulties come in, which are different from build something out of several pieces.

People have tried to explain you this simple concept rather futilely so far, and it's verging on being obtuse at this point.
The value of the work is obviously partly derived from the thing in itself (erecting a stele of that size out of solid rock was far from trivial or simple, and calling it a "stone" it's like saying the Hagia Sophia is a building made of bricks) and its age, which would make it almost a thousand years old by the start of the game, which is why it gets its status.

 

[Oglesby]

"Objectively" when it comes to art is a pretty bold call. I'd say that 'ave maria' is objectively better sung in German than Latin, but it doesn't stop people from playing the inferior Latin version on the radio every Christmas.

The issue is, how does that actually get measured? Like, realistically speaking, a very impressive and significant monument might only be locally known to a small group of people (ie: Sungbo's Eredo), while a similarly impressive monument might be more widely known, simply because the peoples who made it are in contact with a greater part of the world (say, the Theodosian walls). Unless works become more widely known over the course of the game, then, I'm not sure this attempt at more neutral language really makes much sense.


Hey! I have you to thank, then!

This thread is showing one of the reasons that I feel that adding distinct objects of art to the game is bad.

 

[Oglesby]

Maintenance cost is lower by comparison, at least for leather and weapons, per soldier (though you now toss in a firearm cost).

Johan mentioned that the maintenance is per capita. If this statement is still true it means that the difference between 4 x units and 1 x arquebusiers is only that the arq.s 0.1 food consumption and 20 units firearms for maintenance (0.05 x 400).