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Tinto Flavour #14 - 17th of April 2025 - The Papal States

Hello, and welcome to another session of our Tinto Flavour. This week we are continuing with the Christian Easter feel by taking a look at the Papal States.

Since its creation by the hand of Saint Peter himself, the Catholic Church has been guiding all of humanity to salvation through the ages, thanks to the leadership of the bishop of Rome, the Pope.

Starting with the Donation of Pepin, the blessed Papal States were created to both govern and help the faithful. However, the last decades have been a constant struggle as the death of Pope Bonifatius VIII Gaetani Aquila forced the relocation of the court to the exclave of Avignon, as the Papacy fell under the influence of King Philippe IV the Fair Capet, and its holdings in Italy were dominated by quarreling noble families.

What will the vicar of Christ do? Will he fully become a puppet of the Kingdom of France and allow the temporal rule over the spiritual? Or will he break free and rise to the position at the top of Creation that God himself intended for its Church?
Click to expand...

Let’s look at the country directly:
Pope.png

As usual, consider all art as WIP.​

And here are the lands they have, taking into account that their capital is in Avignon, not in Rome.
Country Map.png


They start with a special government reform, unique to the Papacy:
Holy See.png


And they also have some special privileges, representing their division between their French and Italian holdings:
French Cardinals.png

Powerful Italian Families.png


And also a unique policy:
Papacy Policy.png


They also have a work of art:
Palais des Papes.png


And here are some of their unique advances:
Word of the Lord.png

Glory to Rome.png

Donation of Constantine.png

Holy Father.png


One particular characteristic of the Papacy is that their succession is not like the rest of the countries. As such, they have a special succession law:
Papal Conclave.png


That makes it so that when a Pope dies, the country enters into a Papal Conclave Regency, and eventually it will be resolved with an event firing, where the player will be able to choose between some of the cardinals available.
Conclave Regency.png

Conclave Election.png


Here are some more events available to the Papacy:
Castello Event.png


Giving access to this special building:
Castello.png


And events for some special individuals:
Raffael.png

Galileo.png

Borgia.png

I’m sure this last one will have no repercussions whatsoever…​

There’s also some events about some famous "refurbishings":
Sistine Chapel.png

Sistine Chapel Artists.png

Saint Peter.png

Saint Peter Monument.png


… and much more, but that is all we will show for today. Next week we will go to the military branch of Christianity by taking a look at the Military Orders of the Teutonic & Livonian Orders and Knights Hospitallers. See you there.
 
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Roger Corominas said:
Saint Peter is considered the first Pope, that's what is referring to. Changed the pronoun in the last sentence, thank you.
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Samgee Gamwise said:
I'm as Protestant as they come, but In the opening flavor text I doubt many Catholics would say that Peter "created" their church.

Also, in the final line I recommend a pronoun edit: "God himself intended for its his Church" (unless I'm completely misreading the sentence)
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In the sentence: "Since its creation by the hand of Saint Peter himself, the Catholic Church has been guiding all of humanity to salvation through the ages" just replace "Catholic church" with "Church of Rome", and it should be OK, I believe.
 
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Between the DD yesterday and this flavor, I have some concerns about the Catholic IO and the Pope and the Papal States and the relationship between the 3. To start off, I fully understand that that relationship was a confusing mess and some concessions will have to be made to fit this in a game without it being just solely focused on church politics and I do actually like the mechanics that have been presented on their own. But yesterdays DD was an entire dev diary focused on the Catholic Church that didnt mention the Pope and todays Flavor is a lot of Flavor for the Papal States and the Pope that only has an imo loose connection to the Catholic Church. Like unless Im misreading, a nation could dominate the Church Curia and not wind up controlling the Pope which seems wrong and France could keep control over the Papal States but become almost irrelevant in the Catholic Church IO
 
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After the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople, the Orthodox Patriarch was subordinated to the Ottoman sultan, which was able to influence their abilities to a degree, despite retaining authority over the Orthodox population

Lets say a non-Catholic nation vassalizes or conquers the pope, could they also have some sort of relative power over the decision making of the pope?
 
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fhota1 said:
Between the DD yesterday and this flavor, I have some concerns about the Catholic IO and the Pope and the Papal States and the relationship between the 3. To start off, I fully understand that that relationship was a confusing mess and some concessions will have to be made to fit this in a game without it being just solely focused on church politics and I do actually like the mechanics that have been presented on their own. But yesterdays DD was an entire dev diary focused on the Catholic Church that didnt mention the Pope and todays Flavor is a lot of Flavor for the Papal States and the Pope that only has an imo loose connection to the Catholic Church. Like unless Im misreading, a nation could dominate the Church Curia and not wind up controlling the Pope which seems wrong and France could keep control over the Papal States but become almost irrelevant in the Catholic Church IO
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Yeah a bit more clarification would be nice on the relationship between the Papal States and the Catholic Church
 
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1744897607559.png

I've gotta say, I don't feel like having a Yes column really matters if you're just going to rewrite every modifier to make Yes the only option.

Why Blocked from Conversion instead of Allowed to Convert?

Or Allow Diplomatic Subjugation instead of Disallow Diplomatic Subjugation?
 
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Sorry because I did not descript what I want to say clearly before. Actually my confusion came from the answer below:
屏幕截图 2025-04-17 214659.png

So, if the last piece of land in the Papal States were annexed, it would seem that it would "run" elsewhere. So will Italy finally be able to annex Papal States and make it an extraterritorial country? Which base is located on a building in Rome called the "Vatican", as it happened in history? I can't imagine that Papa decided to "roam" in the lands beyond the Apennines, and they could choose to stay in Rome.
 
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