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Tinto Flavour #15 - 25th of April 2025 - Military Orders

Hello and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Fridays in which we take a look at the content of the super secret Project Caesar!

Today, we will be talking about the Christian Military Orders, and specifically, the Teutonic Order and the Knights Hospitallers! Let’s start without further ado:

The glorious Order of Brothers of the German House of Saint Mary in Jerusalem, also known as the Teutonic Order, faces its destiny on the stormy coasts of the Baltic Sea. Created to protect the Christian pilgrims on their way to the Holy City of Jerusalem, its objective shifted to Christianize the Pagan tribes of Prussia and the Baltic through the creation of a state on those lands.

Under the leadership of our predecessor, Hochmeister Werner von Orseln, the Teutonic Order has expanded its territorial holdings, but this expansion has not come without consequences. The Order's aggressive policies have created powerful enemies, as the Pagan tribes to the East have united and formed the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, then allying with our Catholic southern neighbor and rival, the Kingdom of Poland, which has set aside their Christian duty, joining with the pagans against us.

The time has come for our Order to prove that we are up to the crusading task that we have set for ourselves, and show the world that even surrounded by enemies, our faith stands triumphant.
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The Knights Hospitaller conquered the island of Ródos in the early 14th century, spurred by the fall of Acre in 1291, establishing a stronghold that would allow us to pursue our mission to protect Christian pilgrims. Ródos, a picturesque island in the Aegean Sea, has become a thriving center for our Military Order, marked by fortifications and a bustling economy. However, this prosperity is countered by relentless attacks by neighboring Muslim fleets. But we have demonstrated remarkable resilience, defending Ródos through ferocious battles, showcasing our martial prowess and unwavering dedication.

Nonetheless, the future of our Order looks bleak, as our enemies become more powerful and the disunity among the Catholic countries runs rampant. Recovering the Holy Land seems to be a fading hope with each passing day, but our determination is unbreakable, and we will pursue that objective until our last man falls.
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Country Selection Teutons.png

Country Selection Knights.png

As usual, consider all UI, 2D and 3D art WIP.​

The Teutonic Order starts with an interesting political and diplomatic situation:
Teutonic Order.png

Teutonic Diplomacy.png

The Teutonic Order has several vassals, including the Livonian Order; but also starts at war with Poland and Lithuania - something that is not final, since we’re considering representing this Teutonic-Polish conflicts with a truce, instead, as it was resolved peacefully a few years after the start of our game.​

While the situation of the Knights Hospitaller is also interesting, in a different way:
Knights.png

A Unique Location Minor with unique content spotted!​

All Military Orders share some common flavour, starting with a Major Government Reform:
Military Order.png

That unlocks some unique buildings:
Order Headquarters.png

Order Stronghold.png

Order Commandery.png

The Order Headquarters is a capital-only building (so just one per country). The Order Stronghold is a building that you can build in any location you own. While the Order Commandery is a foreign building, that you can build in the lands of any Catholic country with which you have good relations, making it a powerful tool to support your crusading effort.​

There’s also this Estate Privilege for your Clergy:
Military Orders.png

That unlocks a unique diplomatic action with other Catholic countries, the Sponsorship of Military Order:
Sponsorship Military Order.png

Sponsoring.png

Sponsored.png

As being theocracies, the Military Order also have access to unique Laws & Policies, such as:
Law Divine Cause.png

Law Holy Mission.png

Law Monastic Order.png

Law Celibacy.png

Going to the more unique content for each, the Knights have access to a couple more reforms and privileges:
Reform KNI Crusade Sea.png

Privilege KNI Local Commanders.png

The Teutons start with another unique Estate Privilege, and a Work of Art:
Privilege Kulm Law.png

Chronicon Terra Prussiae.png

And both have their own set of advances:

Teutonic Advances
Advance TEU Crusader Discipline.png

Advance TEU Teutonic Heavy Cavalry.png

Advance TEU Reformed Army.png

Advance TEU Teutonic Religious Authority.png

Advance TEU One Estate, One Religion.png


Advances for the Knights Hospitallers
Advance KNI Assistance Suffering.png

Advance KNI Reconquista.png

Advance KNI Scourge.png

Advance KNI Crusade.png

Advance KNI Order State.png

The Teutonic Order and the Knights also have a few dozen unique events each, but since today’s Tinto Flavour is already long enough, let’s just show one example per each:
Saint George1.png

Saint George2.png


Aftermath Crusade Era.png

And that’s all for today! Next Friday is a bank holiday in Tinto, so no Tinto Flavour; but remember that on Monday we will take a look at the Tinto Maps Feedback for Eastern, Central and Southern Africa, and on Wednesday there will be a Tinto Talks about Protestantism and the War of Religion. Cheers!
 

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Pavía said:
Bugged tooltip, this is the correct one:

View attachment 1285739
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A bit unrelated but having the Coa of the Avesnes family being the flag for Negroponte in 1337 is incorrect, Jaques II was the only ruler of the island that was an Avesnes, after his death in 1205 it was various north Italian families that ruled the three baronies of the island the most prominent one was the Carceri family which always had coltrol of at least one third of the island so it should be their family coa the one to be used as a flag for the tag specially considering they are the ones ruling it in game
Screenshot_20250425_174932_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20250425_174953_Chrome.jpg
 
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Just out of curiosity, why are the Knights ships half price? Is there a role-play or real-life reason for bonuses such as these, or are they just for gameplay purposes? This in particular feels very "gamey" compared to most of the bonuses and modifiers I've seen so far. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, as "fun" should be the number one priority of a game, just more curious as this stood out to me as "extra gamey".

1745597544808.png
 
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Pavía said:
View attachment 1285715
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The Livonian order did not have a Grandmaster, it had a Master(Landmeister doesn't have an official translation in english afaik, maybe Landmaster?) as they were a branch of the Teutonic order in 1337 and even after becoming indipendent they still used the same title(maybe it could change if they rank up?), also Hochmeister is Grand Master(literally High Master) in German and therefore doesn't exist in the english dictionary as such it shouldn't be used in game(same reason as why the ruler of France uses the title of King instead of Roi)
 
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Pavía said:
No, it employs your own pops, and if you lose manpower, your pops are killed; but it's a way of getting an early game manpower boost, since the manpower buildings are scarce in the first couple of ages.
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Ok, my building my pops (so my estates, my tax base too?).
What happens when they die?
  1. I ship them in from my homelands.
  2. Peasants from the local populace promote to fill the slots.
  3. Something else.
 
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  • Can't believe that I skipped this.
  • I think that instead of overlaying things over the background this should be split into two sections. These sections could split the area in half or 1/3:2/3.
    • Section A: Stack of information containing: country name, the three country icons, the flag, the leader's name, the leaders stats (crest, age, sex, attributes)
    • Section B: The 3d model over the background (in portrait if split into half, or a squarish shape if thirds)
  • I missed that these are both Land based. I figured these would be perfect for Army (or Military) Based.
Country%20Selection%20Teutons.png


  • I would think that having a marker in the title bar at the right to indicate this it your country would be better than the extra line.
  • I would change Urban Locations to "Locations" and either lists a count for each c/t/r or the urban/rural.
  • I would add a line for 'extraterritorial buildings'.
  • (I wonder we should show the number of other peoples buildings in my territory as well)
Prussian%20Homage3.png
 
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I just wanna say that Europa Universalis IV had this epic piece of music titled Knights of the Sword (easily one of my absolute favourite tunes), and while being totally unrelated to project caesar, I think that tune would go so hard for the content being shown here. I mean the organ would have to be replaced with an instrument more fitting for PCs time period (could you imagine using a wrong century organ? literally unplayable!), but otherwise the duel between the churchly organ and the pagan drum echoing out over what must be a vast forest just seems so fitting to what's going on here.

Any chance you could have a little chat with the mysteriously silent EUIV team and like obtain the rights to use that?
 
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relytor said:
Just out of curiosity, why are the Knights ships half price? Is there a role-play or real-life reason for bonuses such as these, or are they just for gameplay purposes? This in particular feels very "gamey" compared to most of the bonuses and modifiers I've seen so far. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, as "fun" should be the number one priority of a game, just more curious as this stood out to me as "extra gamey".

View attachment 1285781
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It's probably so they can punch above their weight, since it's such a small and insignificant country otherwise. But 50% does sound a bit extreme especially if you were to expand a lot.
 
Hello again, i was wondering why the Teutonic order has the title grand master translated into german but the knights hospitaller continue to use the English word for it?
 
Is there content for the Knights Hospitalier to relocate to Malta and become Malta?

Similarily, does Prussia have any content after the Teutonic Order would become Ducal Prussia?
 
Pavía said:
It's one of the few instances in which we allow alt-historical, since it doesn't feel right if you keep playing as the Teutonic Order, but stop having any unique advances after the Age of Reformation.
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So what you are saying is the alt history stuff in the future will be more in depth with events and other things in the DLC or similarly to how some do alt history in the previous game of this series Hearts of Iron 4? =w>
 
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It is a bummer that you decided to make those playable entities land-based nations and not ABCs, for three reasons:
  • They were literally armies that administrated territories and not de jure countries. The core of their orders relied on recruitment of soldier monks, not conscripted peasants.
  • It would make them mecanically coherent with non-landowning military orders which should also be army-based (as ABC can both own land and/or buildings only and continue existing while switching between the two possibilities).
  • The Knights historically did lose all their lands and were offered places to reside afterward, including territories (Malta) but also just buildings (like nowadays in Rome). We could keep playing as them and follow their historical path if they were made ABCs.
Can you please consider making all catholic military theocracies ABCs until they reform into something else?


Polesie Admiral said:
battle on the ice
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*Prokofiev music starts playing*
 
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What will happen when Rhodes is conquered by the Turks, Romans, Egyptians, etc.? What will happen with the transfer of the Knights to Malta? What will happen to the Orthodox, many of whom did belong to the Order of St. John at that time, although it was not purely Catholic? Wouldn't it be interesting if this order, through a chain of events, could convert to Orthodoxy if it remains in Rhodes and Roman rule of these lands continues?
 
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Could you add Terra Mariana as a formable for Catholic theocracies in Livonia?
 
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