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Tinto Flavour #15 - 25th of April 2025 - Military Orders

Hello and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Fridays in which we take a look at the content of the super secret Project Caesar!

Today, we will be talking about the Christian Military Orders, and specifically, the Teutonic Order and the Knights Hospitallers! Let’s start without further ado:

The glorious Order of Brothers of the German House of Saint Mary in Jerusalem, also known as the Teutonic Order, faces its destiny on the stormy coasts of the Baltic Sea. Created to protect the Christian pilgrims on their way to the Holy City of Jerusalem, its objective shifted to Christianize the Pagan tribes of Prussia and the Baltic through the creation of a state on those lands.

Under the leadership of our predecessor, Hochmeister Werner von Orseln, the Teutonic Order has expanded its territorial holdings, but this expansion has not come without consequences. The Order's aggressive policies have created powerful enemies, as the Pagan tribes to the East have united and formed the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, then allying with our Catholic southern neighbor and rival, the Kingdom of Poland, which has set aside their Christian duty, joining with the pagans against us.

The time has come for our Order to prove that we are up to the crusading task that we have set for ourselves, and show the world that even surrounded by enemies, our faith stands triumphant.
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The Knights Hospitaller conquered the island of Ródos in the early 14th century, spurred by the fall of Acre in 1291, establishing a stronghold that would allow us to pursue our mission to protect Christian pilgrims. Ródos, a picturesque island in the Aegean Sea, has become a thriving center for our Military Order, marked by fortifications and a bustling economy. However, this prosperity is countered by relentless attacks by neighboring Muslim fleets. But we have demonstrated remarkable resilience, defending Ródos through ferocious battles, showcasing our martial prowess and unwavering dedication.

Nonetheless, the future of our Order looks bleak, as our enemies become more powerful and the disunity among the Catholic countries runs rampant. Recovering the Holy Land seems to be a fading hope with each passing day, but our determination is unbreakable, and we will pursue that objective until our last man falls.
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Country Selection Teutons.png

Country Selection Knights.png

As usual, consider all UI, 2D and 3D art WIP.​

The Teutonic Order starts with an interesting political and diplomatic situation:
Teutonic Order.png

Teutonic Diplomacy.png

The Teutonic Order has several vassals, including the Livonian Order; but also starts at war with Poland and Lithuania - something that is not final, since we’re considering representing this Teutonic-Polish conflicts with a truce, instead, as it was resolved peacefully a few years after the start of our game.​

While the situation of the Knights Hospitaller is also interesting, in a different way:
Knights.png

A Unique Location Minor with unique content spotted!​

All Military Orders share some common flavour, starting with a Major Government Reform:
Military Order.png

That unlocks some unique buildings:
Order Headquarters.png

Order Stronghold.png

Order Commandery.png

The Order Headquarters is a capital-only building (so just one per country). The Order Stronghold is a building that you can build in any location you own. While the Order Commandery is a foreign building, that you can build in the lands of any Catholic country with which you have good relations, making it a powerful tool to support your crusading effort.​

There’s also this Estate Privilege for your Clergy:
Military Orders.png

That unlocks a unique diplomatic action with other Catholic countries, the Sponsorship of Military Order:
Sponsorship Military Order.png

Sponsoring.png

Sponsored.png

As being theocracies, the Military Order also have access to unique Laws & Policies, such as:
Law Divine Cause.png

Law Holy Mission.png

Law Monastic Order.png

Law Celibacy.png

Going to the more unique content for each, the Knights have access to a couple more reforms and privileges:
Reform KNI Crusade Sea.png

Privilege KNI Local Commanders.png

The Teutons start with another unique Estate Privilege, and a Work of Art:
Privilege Kulm Law.png

Chronicon Terra Prussiae.png

And both have their own set of advances:

Teutonic Advances
Advance TEU Crusader Discipline.png

Advance TEU Teutonic Heavy Cavalry.png

Advance TEU Reformed Army.png

Advance TEU Teutonic Religious Authority.png

Advance TEU One Estate, One Religion.png


Advances for the Knights Hospitallers
Advance KNI Assistance Suffering.png

Advance KNI Reconquista.png

Advance KNI Scourge.png

Advance KNI Crusade.png

Advance KNI Order State.png

The Teutonic Order and the Knights also have a few dozen unique events each, but since today’s Tinto Flavour is already long enough, let’s just show one example per each:
Saint George1.png

Saint George2.png


Aftermath Crusade Era.png

And that’s all for today! Next Friday is a bank holiday in Tinto, so no Tinto Flavour; but remember that on Monday we will take a look at the Tinto Maps Feedback for Eastern, Central and Southern Africa, and on Wednesday there will be a Tinto Talks about Protestantism and the War of Religion. Cheers!
 

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IIRC modifier stacking is something that this game will try to avoid, compared to EU4 for example. My question is that is this (fortification maintenance in this case) will be exceptional compared to most countries in the game? Or will we have a non-money bottleneck (like trade goods needed for maintenance) that prevents us from Maginot-lining the whole place all around? (I am asking this knowing that of course, everything is WIP.) Also I know that 50-60% maintenance discount is still not a free fort, but wouldn't be surprised if there would be something else affecting it in the game, and another 10-20% can make this modifier very chunky.
 
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I've noticed that map feedbacks are going forward quite far, which is good. However, Im currious about Scandinavia, which still doesnt have a feedback, dispite newer tinto maps have gotten feedbacks. Im glad you're taking your time with my home region, but Id still like to know if it could be expected soon or not.
(I can see that Mjøsa and impassible terrain has been added to Norway in other content, which makes me happy:))
 
D.Knight said:
Forts require workers and soldiers to staff them.
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Yeah sure, and also resources and goods. My main interest is, which one will be the bottleneck. If it's the ducat upkeep, then stacking this much fort maintenance discount is very OP. If the fort ducat discount is not the main concern otherwise, because manpower/food/resources/goods is harder to achieve for them anyways, then the -60% ducat discount is nice, but not game breaking. Forts will be a great asset in this game if I understand correctly, because long sieges can cripple armies especially in the early game (winter will cause hight attrition and armies cannot replenish on enemy territory, so if a siege goes on for a very long time, the game might force you to lift the siege and go home to replenish, if you don't have a secondary army to reinforce). If you can turtle yourself and wait for the enemy to bleed out while trying to occupy any land from you, that sounds like a very strong early game tactic. I don't know how much late game artillery will change this, but usually by that time you can commit yourself to great field battles in my opinion.
 
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Purely meant as constructive criticism:

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The framing of the flag does not look great imo. It looks like plastic, and the shading behind it doesn't alleviate the feeling that this painting/flag looks out of place in the overall UI - like glued on in post.

The "male" sign also doen't look good, but it screams wip so I'm almost sur its temporary. Same for the fact that the admin and diplo icons are the same color.
 

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gustavjaune said:
Purely meant as constructive criticism:

View attachment 1286730
The framing of the flag does not look great imo. It looks like plastic, and the shading behind it doesn't alleviate the feeling that this painting/flag looks out of place in the overall UI - like glued on in post.

The "male" sign also doen't look good, but it screams wip so I'm almost sur its temporary. Same for the fact that the admin and diplo icons are the same color.
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I agree, both the model and the flag look like things copied into a picture.
 
You say there will be minimal modifier stacking, but since Prussia's unique advanes probably start in the age of Refomation couldn't you get the 5% discipline from the order age of tradition advance, then form Prussia and get all of their strong buffs?
 
Will crusader orders be able to "invite settlers" like we've seen Greenland and Iceland can and I assume colonies can aswell? With the cultural mechanics it could be cool to form Jerusalem as the Knights Hospitaller and then invite a lot of French people and form an "Outremer" culture.
 
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Can building based orders turn into landed orders, and landed orders turn into building based ones?
 
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Pavía said:
The Knights have 31 commanderies and the Teutons 20, throughout Europe.
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Any content regarding the national organization of those commanderies? I have in mind the conflicts between France and Spain in the XVII century for influence about the Order of Hospital. It ties it into the flavour for an Hospitallier Malta (derecho de presentación, etc)
 
Few questions that I hope get answered.

1. Are Teutons and Livonian Order able to join HRE officially? Historically both orders and their bishoprics at times were and at times weren't seen as part of HRE.

2. Currently bishoprics are depicted as either Teutonic or Livonian vassals but they were (at least officially) under the rule of HRE Emperor and Pope. HRE emporor and Pope also usually decided who became Bishops. Teutonic Order nor Livonian Order did not control them during the game start date. Are there plans to change it and at least add Livonian bishoprics under Riga Archbishopric with some kind of defense arrangement between Livonian Order and Riga Archbishopric? There could also be a unique game mechanic where Teutonic Order could strong arm Bishoprics into becaming their vassals when they become stronger and for example are strong enough to win against Poland, Novgorod and/or Lithuania so that they have freedom to use their military power and influence on them.
 
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