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Tinto Flavour #23 - 30th of May 2025

Hello, and welcome one more Friday to Tinto Flavour, the happy days in which we take a look at the flavour content of Europa Universalis V!

Today, a day after an infamous anniversary, we will be taking a look at the Byzantine Empire - or Eastern Roman Empire, as you’re free to pick the custom name you prefer for it, as it’s a game rule that you can set before starting the game:
Game Rule Byzantium.png

Game Rule Eastern Roman Empire.png

Let’s now start with the content itself:

Once a proud Empire that stretched from Egypt and the Levant to Iberia and Italy, Byzantium now faces a decadent period that began almost three centuries ago. During his reign, Emperor Andronikos II Palaiologos saw fit to dissolve several key institutions, such as the Navy, in an attempt to save the dying economy of the country, while the Theme System continued to be a shadow of what it was, as the Empire lost territory across all fronts.

His successor, Emperor Andronikos III Palaiologos, is now faced with the difficult task of safeguarding what remains of our once-glorious Empire. To our east, the Ottomans have started amassing a large army to wipe out our remaining holdings in Anatolia, threatening to set foot across the straits. At the same time, King Stefan Uroš IV Dušan Nemanjić eyes Thessaloníki and Northern Epirus like a vulture. Meanwhile, our treasury runs dry of precious coin, and the country may yet be thrown into a perilous civil war, as the family of our Emperor conspires with the Dynatoí behind closed doors.

Country Selection.png

Country Tooltip.png

As usual, please consider all UI, 2D and 3D art WIP.

Byzantium1.png

Eastern Roman Empire1.png

As I don’t want to spark yet another Byzantine discussion, and its subsequent civil war, here you have a couple of map screenshots, with a different country name option each!

Byzantium (which is the name that I will use from now on, as being the most commonly used by the community) starts with a bunch of reforms and privileges:
Estates.png

Most of the Estate Privileges are generic ones, but there’s a unique one for each estate. We will show them in a later section of the TF, as they’re related to the Byzantine Succession Crisis, a disaster that may happen to Byzantium early on.

Regarding the starting reforms, the first is a generic one, while the other two are unique ones:
Reform Autocracy.png

Reform Theme System.png

Building Thema Headquarters.png

Reform Kritai Katholikon.png

Byzantium starts with a ‘State Patriarchy’ policy, as shown last Wednesday:
Policy State Patriarchy.png

And some other unique policies:
Policy Pronoia System.png

Policy Byzantine Law.png

It also has quite a bunch of starting works of art:
Works of Art1.png

Works of Art2.png

The Theodosian Walls are also represented through a unique building:
Building Theodosian Walls.png

Byzantium also has a bunch of advances; we are going to focus on the early-game, historical ones, as they also unlock some Byzantine unique units:
Advance Heart of Orthodoxy.png

Advance Late Cataphracts.png

Unit Byzantine Cataphracts.png

Advance Akritai.png

Unit Akritai.png

Advance Shield of the West.png

Cabinet Action Extensive Conscription.png

Advance Poikilia.png

Advance Expand Varangian Guard.png

Unit Varangians.png

Advance City Taker.png

Unit Modernized Helepolis.png

Let’s now move on to the narrative content for Byzantium. As I mentioned previously, a Succession Crisis is latent in the country, and that would historically lead to the Byzantine Civil War of 1341-1347, which allowed King Stefan Dusan of Serbia to occupy Macedonia and proclaim himself emperor, the Bulgarians to recover some borderlands, and seriously debilitated the country, making it easier for the Ottomans to gain a foothold across the Sea of Marmara, from Gallipoli.

We’re portraying this latent crisis and the general state of decay of the country by some starting privileges, plus some starting inflation, low funds and stability, etc.:
Privilege Corruption Nobility.png

Privilege Corruption Burghers.png

Privilege Corruption Clergy.png

Privilege Corruption Commoners.png

This situation will also spawn in your neighborhood a couple of months after the game starts, although we will talk more in detail about it next Friday:
The Turkish Threat.png

And it’s very likely that this disaster may end up triggering early after the start of the game, if you are not careful enough:
Succession Crisis.png

Succession Crisis2.png

Succession Crisis3.png

It is something we internally call Semi-Generic Disaster. This means that while it uses the texts, panel, etc. of the generic ‘Succession Crisis’ disaster, some countries have unique triggers, events, and content attached to it, so the player can experience similar, but different crisis. The Byzantine Succession Crisis is one of those, therefore.

Independent of whether the player succeeds or not in defeating the Succession Crisis, and not weakening much in the process, Byzantium has a bunch of Dynamic Historical Events:
Event Hesychasm.png


Event Decline Palaiologos Renaissance.png


Event Reforming Kritai Katholikon.png

Reform Reformed Kratoi Katholikon.png


Event Acritic Songs.png


Event Song of Armouris.png


Event Kosntantinos Armenopoulos.png


Event Center of Learning.png


Event Gemistos Plethon.png

Event Gemistos Plethon2.png

Byzantium also has some alt-historical events, one of the few exceptions we make in the game, to include some plausible content in case that Byzantium avoid its decadence…

… However you will have to find it by playing the game when we release it, as that’s all for today! As today is Friday, this will be the schedule for next week:
  • Monday -> Tinto Maps Feedback about the Steppes
  • Tuesday -> Tinto Flavour about the Golden Horde
  • Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about Islam
  • Thursday -> Fourth ‘Behind the Scenes’ video!
  • Friday -> Tinto Flavour about the Ottomans and the Rise of the Turks situation!
And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
 
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does the relience on the venicians and the Genoase for trade and naval support is potrayed in the game? becasue from the videos I remeber byzatium making a lot of trade income even though most of the power of trade belonged to the latins in that period.
 
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1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. The central box gives the monthly moves towards the value the arrow point to.

When you hover over the Societal Value itself, you get additional info:
View attachment 1309650
What is the "Control Importance Modifer"
 
I'm not an expert but if I had the claim to Rome I'd never let it go unless I got shot in the head by a turkish cannonball.
While people are most excited for this guy because they are filthy neo pagans, Plethon kept that fact about himself very private.
What he didn't keep private was his proposal to reject Rome and recreate a proper Hellenic nation inspired by Plato's Republic. Constantinople letting go of its Roman identity should be possible. It shouldn't be easy, and it should be mechanically worse than remaining Rome, but it should be possible.
 
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View attachment 1309473

Burada grafiksel bir aksaklık var gibi görünüyor, Çanakkale Boğazı kısmen kumla dolu... Boğazın darlığı nedeniyle teknik olarak kaçınılmaz olsa da, belki de bu, görsel olarak temiz su geçişini garanti altına almak için gerçeklikten küçük bir sapmanın haklı olduğu bir örnektir?
the biggest official reason why the British and French couldn't cross the strait
 
The randomly selected surname is unintentionally very funny, but also understandable as we don't know his family name (if he had one at all).
BUT, since we don't know his name, what about using one of his monikers/profession name, and make his name something like:

- Ágyúöntő Orbán, "Orbán the cannon-founder"; a profession-based surname
- Magyar Orbán, "Orbán the Hungarian"; this is how the Ottomans referred to him

Honorable mention:
Tüzes Orbán, "Orbán the Fiery"; made up, used only in Bánk Mór's Hunyadi trilogy, but still dope
Ok, I think that the game has picked randomly a lowborn surname for him, and now I've just checked what Szabó means, lol.

Just changing it to Magyar, which is another surname that we already have:

Magyar Orban.png
 
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The Byzantium Fanboys estate has the following permanent modifiers:

- Forum Denizens: +50% estate power
- Historical Losers: Estate cannot be "Happy", and Satisfaction continually ticks down to 0.
- Balkan Nationalism: Any mention of the Ottomans gives -20% Satisfaction
- Naming Civil War: +100% Monthly Rebel Growth*.

*We'll let you choose which side is the rebel one, OFC!
 
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We have an instance in which a woman character can be considered legally a male character, and thus, it can be applied to it the same rules. It's currently only used in the Hungarian content, but it's something that we can potentially expand to any other cases if needed.
Oh, that's what it's for. In that case, I take it is to represent Mary being crowned king of Hungary? If so, Poland should have the same thing though. Mary's very sister Jadwiga was also crowned king as neither country had a concept of queen regnant.
 
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Ok, I think that the game has picked randomly a lowborn surname for him, and now I've just checked what Szabó means, lol.

Just changing it to Magyar, which is another surname that we already have:

View attachment 1309754
Nice!
Follow-up question: what does he actually do? Does he actually create the Basilic as a one-time special bombard regiment, or something else?
 
2. I have a minor gripe with the country description. It states:

I'm not really sure what consistent "decadent period" this refers to. I supposed it could be poorly worded and the intended word was "decline" rather than "decadent period," but that's still an inaccurate view of the period of 1000-1300 AD. They had a major hundred-year resurgence in the middle of those three centuries with the Komnenian Restoration. I think it would be better if the description briefly mentioned the Fourth Crusade in the lead up to the troubles that Byzantium faces now, for example:
You're right, I think that the content designer that wrote it was thinking more on the shock of the end of the Macedonian dynasty, and the defeat at Manzikert. Changing right now to this, which is also closer to the game start:

Once a proud Empire that stretched from Egypt and the Levant to Iberia and Italy, Byzantium now faces a period of almost inexorable decline caused by the shock of the Fourth Crusade, even after the recovery of Kōnstantinoúpolis by the Palaiologos.
3. Once again, and it's something I pointed out in a thread so I won't go into great detail here, but the transliterations of Greek words that are used in-game right now are totally inconsistent with each other. "Kléros," "Kōnstantinoúpolis," and "Apoheteftiko Systima" for example are all inconsistent with each other, and the Greek words used in the interface should really be given a consistent standard of writing, the same as any other language written in a non-Latin alphabet represented in-game. Also, if you're going to accent marks (and I think you should) for words in the UI and location names, you should use them in Greek character names as well.
One of our internal Greek devs (we have two) will make a pass, although please note that for the content (not for flavour naming, like that of locations or flavor names), we favor terms adapted in English over the endonyms. E.g.: 'Theme System' over 'Thémata'; although I've just corrected 'Thema' for 'Théma'.
4. The Akritai were functionally non-existent by 1337, as they had been rolled into the regular army following a revolt against Michael VIII Palaiologos. To the extent that they might have still been a force, they surely would have become completely defunct by this point due to the loss of any real territory in Asia Minor. So I don't think that Akritai should be represented as a unit/advance available to Byzantium, at least not right away.

In regards to Byzantine Cataphracts, they are a more complicated issue. What we typically think of as a Byzantine Cataphract went out of use by the 11th century, and they were largely replaced by less heavily armoured cavalry by the Komnenian period. However, the Byzantines did continue to refer to their heavy cavalry under the term "cataphract" as a blanket term. It's worth noting, however, that the remaining Byzantine heavy cavalry by the Palaiologian period were armed and outfitted in pretty much the same way as a western knight, especially influenced by late Medieval Italian armies.

Varangians, at least as a culturally distinct entity, were present in Byzantium up through its final centuries. It must be noted however that what Byzantines called a "Varangian" had broadened to include the English, and most members of the later Varangian Guard actually came from England, which might be worth pointing out in the description. In any event, it's unclear whether the famous Varangian Guard itself still existed at this point. We have one account that they still existed in the 13th century, and we don't have accounts of them after then, so it's not impossible that they could still be a military unit at this point, but its inclusion rests on shaky foundations.
Thanks for the feedback, we'll consider about possible tweaks regarding it.
 
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Could someone tell me to what Hungarian custom/law this refers?

I hope it's not about Mary, who - like Jadwiga - was crowned as the ruler (king), not wife of the ruler (queen), but wasn't "legally male".
 
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The addition of the Theodosian Walls are super cool! However I am curious; what does blocks vision from land and sea mean here exactly? Can I place an army in Constantinople as the ERE and no other country can see my army?
 
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To give my thoughts on the whole naming thing my main issue with the name as it is that for both they say around Byzantion and not Constantinople. Second the Eastern Roman Empire is written insulting towards those that prefer that option. Regardless if you hate that option or love it. it is a mocking comment.

Instead it should be written similar to the Byzantine one so saying: the Greek country centered around Byzantion will be known as the Eastern Roman Empire.

thats it. short and sweet.
 
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Both descriptions should be backhanded. The Eastern Roman one makes reference to the "one thousand Roman miles from Rome" as it does right now, and the Byzantium one should mention that it's an anachronistic name and that it's a direct successor to the Roman Empire.
 
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