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Tinto Flavour #25 - 6th of June 2025

Hello, and welcome one more Friday to Tinto Flavour, the happy days in which we take a look at the flavour content of Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will take a look at the flavour content for the Ottomans, one of our Tier 1 countries, the Turkish Beliks in general, and the Rise of the Turks situation, in which all of them are involved!

The Ottomans were founded by Osmanoglu Osman Bey, a chieftain of the Kayı tribe of the Oghuz Turks, around 1299. Residing around the Northwestern coast of Anatolia, they were initially one of the many Beyliks to occupy the border territory of Rûm, a once-powerful Sultanate. Under the leadership of Osmanoglu Gazi Orhan Bey, they have consolidated and greatly expanded their domain, securing vital land along the coast of the Bosphorus. Bountiful raids, victories, and diplomacy have secured them as one of the region's most powerful rising Beyliks...

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As usual, please consider all UI, 2D and 3D art as WIP.

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A lovely day in 1337 on the coast of the Bosphorus…

The Ottomans, like the other Anatolian Beyliks, start with some Reforms and Privileges, of which some are unique:
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Privilege Ghazi Lords.png

They also start with a unique and troublesome succession law:
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And this policy:
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These are some of the advances available, which you may notice are quite relevant:
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Advance Uc Bey.png

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Advance Akincular.png

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Advance Kanun.png

Policy Kanun.png

Advance Tulip Period.png

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Although the most important advances for the Ottomans are:
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There’s a different Janissary unit available in each age; for example, this is the one available for Age of Reformation:
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This is very relevant, as the key flavour content for the Ottomans, and the rest of the Anatolian Beyliks, is a situation that triggers a couple of months into the game; I'll let one of our Content Designers, @PDXBigBoss :
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The situation focuses on the rise of the Ottomans, in most cases. However, this does not mean that another Beylik cannot take their place, with their own unique flavor, reforms, and outcomes!

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This unique reform is granted to the strongest Beylik, if they are the Ottomans.

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This reform is only available for the Strongest Beylik, if they are NOT the Ottomans!

This is the panel of the situation. Many countries, beyond the "Strongest Beylik" can play a part in it, the ever-shifting environment of politics, diplomacy, and eventual war. While the Strongest will gain access to a few unique actions, most actions are available to any Beylik.
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The Ottomans are by far not domineering across the region, let alone beyond it, in 1337. Foreshadowing or…?

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  • Press Claims - The ability of the Strongest to fabricate a claim against an enemy in Anatolia.
  • Raise a Bey Fortress - It's a unique building that increases the Fort Level of a location and produces an ample, steady supply of manpower, much earlier than many other countries can. It can only be built in cities across Anatolia. Upon its construction, you will be greeted by a positive event, whose historical information is tailored specifically to the location you build it. This means that it will be different if you build it in Bursa, Izmit, Konya, Smyrna, etc... While this is good and all, these fortresses are a symbol of authority, for better or worse. This means that if a location with a Bey Fortress gets sieged down, you will suffer a blow to the stability and legitimacy of your rule, and your people will lose faith in your ability to win the war. The maluses will be far worse should the enemy even annex that location, so be careful…
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Location Importance is a composite metric, tailored specifically to the Situation. It depends on many factors such as development, market access, road connectivity, and more. This is used to determine the volume of certain bonuses and utilizes a nice little “game concept” tooltip to explain its application and usage.

  • Seek Relations with the Byzantines - as long as the Romans hold Constantinople, and they are "relevant" any Beylik that is strong enough will be able to leverage diplomacy to extract gifts from the Empire. These gifts may be the hand of a daughter in marriage, ample coin, the recognition of a Beylik as legitimate sovereign of Anatolia, or the demand of capable characters to prop up your administration in exchange for relations and good faith. They can - and often do - decline, but are they really in a position to barter ?
  • Offer Diplomatic Protection - through marriage, the exchange of territory and diplomacy, as any Beylik we can offer an alliance and guarantees of sovereignty to another lesser Beylik. Of course, history has shown such friendships are short-lived…
  • Create Uc Bey - A unique subject type for the duration of the situation. A powerful weapon when used appropriately, the Uc Bey guards the frontier of the Beylik against foreign threats. They will be an army-based country with a powerful Government Reform, making them the perfect guardians. However, you will need to integrate them and centralize later on, should you survive and come out on top after the situation ends…
A couple of locations in the Situation map mode previously shown, are marked in red and yellow. This is for two reasons:
  • Anatolia in 1337 is traversed by a Great Trunk Road, controlling important points across it (Konya, Sivas, etc) unlocks a scaling Estate Privilege for your Merchant Estate, let's take a look:
    image (45).png
The privilege will grant 1% Trade Efficiency for each of these locations that we control directly…

  • Konya and Sivas are also home to Seljuk Mints, which were used by the former Sultanate to produce coinage and project an aura of legitimacy and authority. Owning and developing these locations will be vital when it comes to spreading our Control across the region through a unique building…
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As the Strongest Beylik consolidates holdings with a majority of Greek Culture, this event will appear, heralding the beginning of a great Turkic Migration. It enables a unique action for our country to call upon Turkic migration from the East, to populate the coasts of the Aegean Sea and Anatolia. Historically, this was very vital and it carries the same importance in-game, as having a majority of our culture in locations will allow us to fully core them, thus increasing our control!

The number of migrants that will travel is dynamically balanced. The pops will always come from a province with an ample population, and the amount of pops will always be "relevant" to the target province we are trying to populate:
image (31).png

And a nice little short-term modifier to ensure a swifter cultural integration​

Once the strongest Beylik consolidates themselves, and crosses the Dardanelles, the Press Claims action will evolve, allowing the Beylik to declare war through a good Casus Belli across the Balkans, as well, posing a direct threat to the Kingdoms that populate that region:
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Once the player conquers 300 locations, including at least 30 urban locations, and we own Konstantiniyye, we will be greeted by this event, which heralds in the Classical Era of your (now) Empire. In most cases, this will be the Ottomans.:
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This event will also grant us the rank of Empire, which comes with significant bonuses and some double edges in the form of a unique disaster for Empires…

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But what happens if the Karamanids or another rises, instead? They are greeted by a different outcome, a choice. They will be able to adopt the Ottoman tag, inheriting the Ottoman content, events, reforms, everything they have to offer, whilst still holding on to their flag, name, color on the map, dynasty, history, etc. However, should you choose not to do this, you will be able to reform the Sultanate of Rum....

Moreover, other Beyliks across Anatolia have dedicated flavor content to themselves. The Germiyanids, Aydinids, Eretnids will have a few events associated with their history in the middle of the 14th century, onwards.
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Germiyanids Ruler perishes, who is 79 at game start. A nasty event, reminiscent of Shah Rukh

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The Eretnids are displeased with Jalayrid rule, trouble steers!

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On top of that, the Ottomans have around 200 DHEs, making it a proper Tier 1 country in terms of flavor…

… And much more, but that’s all for today, as it’s already very long! As today is Friday, this will be the schedule for next week, which will be completely on @Roger Corominas , as I’ll be off:
  • Monday -> Tinto Maps Feedback about Japan & Korea
  • Tuesday -> Tinto Flavour about Korea & Manchuria
  • Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about the Shinto religion & Shogunate IO
  • Thursday -> ‘Behind the Music of Europa Universalis V - Composing the Grandest Score’ video!
  • Friday -> Tinto Flavour about Japan & the Nanboku-chō Jidai & Sengoku Jidai situations

And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
 

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It is goal/reward system, Ottomans doesnt need to play that route (but should be inclined to do that route)

For most other beyliks uniting Anatolia first is the easier alternative, but if you want to get Ottoman content as other beyliks and modifiers you should follow their path strictly, or play as Ottomans if you dont want challenge, as for Ottomans going Balkans first should be easier/adventageous path
Ottomans is one of the most played nations on my list in EU4. Simply because there are so many paths you can go. Historic, tall, Rome path, some funky shit by blobbing towards central asia, colonial old world, even colonial new world.

I most definetly wont play them, when I am forced into a path, simply because I want to conquer stuff in the order I want. I wont play any beyliks for that matter if I am forced into a path I dont like. Player agency >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> railroading.
 
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I am against railroading the game based on history. What does it matter if they took the Balkans or Anatolia first? Mind you, Anatolia is distorted on maps and looks much smaller than it actually is, whereas the Balkan looks bigger than what it suppose to be. The entity of the Balkan is about half as big as Anatolia.
They enacted Devshirme system because of that, and Janissaries followed that, that is the entire difference between other beyliks and Ottomans, playing as normal as any other beylik then getting Janissaries doesnt make any sense, it is like having Napoleon without having Revolutionary France lol

The Anatolian holdings might have been larger all along.


And if I dont want to do that first, why should I be forced to do so?
You arent forced, dont do that then, then also dont expect to have Janissaries as Karamanids or Aydınids
I am talking about the AI. I frequently play in the maghreb region. A Portgula-Spain-France/UK hug box happens quite often. In that case I blob into other directions, get stronger and then attempt an invasion. By your suggestion I should be blocked from the Al-Andalus path, because I first expanded into other directions.
Yes it should be blocked too, forming Andulus as Morocco is stupid anyways (as they didnt Form Andulus as Almohads and Almoravids which were controlling the Andulus formation conditions in eu4

No. Railroading the game is not fun or a feature that should be in the game in the first place.

I dont lose my option to form them, just because I unite the british Isles first.

It was an example and it doesnt matter eitherway.

You cannot form Angevin if you didnt get France lol same thing
 
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Ottomans is one of the most played nations on my list in EU4. Simply because there are so many paths you can go. Historic, tall, Rome path, some funky shit by blobbing towards central asia, colonial old world, even colonial new world.

I most definetly wont play them, when I am forced into a path, simply because I want to conquer stuff in the order I want. I wont play any beyliks for that matter if I am forced into a path I dont like. Player agency >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> railroading.

Did you understand what I wrote?

Ottomans doesnt lose its content because it goes a different route (although it should be easier path)

Other beyliks lose forming the Ottomans and locked into Rûm if they dont follow the historical Ottoman early moves

Playing as Ottomans, you are already Ottomans lol, you dont need to form Ottomans

If you want to form Ottomans by uniting Anatolia, you might as well form Roman Empire by taking Tunis
 
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As I said, this reeks of railroading, which is my main issue with the Mission Tree missions as well.

Better to let the Player choose a Location/Province/Area/Region as fits and reward them for fulfilling their ambition, rather than say "you do this or you can't have the reward" because, as was pointed out, the map changes and enemy hugboxes can form.

If you want to have big modifiers as a random nation, then you should sacrifice some aspect of early game freedom lol

Otherwise continue playing as them and eventually form Rûm

Forming Ottomans as any other beyliks doesnt make sense in any way already so I am trying to make sense of it

Btw, Ottomans should be able to form Roman Empire because it seems like tag requirements are loosened in this game
 
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If you want to have big modifiers as a random nation, then you should sacrifice some aspect of early game freedom lol

Otherwise continue playing as them and eventually form Rûm

Forming Ottomans as any other beyliks doesnt make sense in any way already so I am trying to make sense of it

Btw, Ottomans should be able to form Roman Empire because it seems like tag requirements are loosened in this game

AI Ottomans should def. take over Southern Balkans first before unifying Anatolia, and later focus on Levant. This is not arcade-like EU4, I don't want Ottomans to blitz Hungary-Romania-Ukraine before they take over Levant.

Best option is to put conditions on rewards, historically accurate paths should give larger reward for doing them first, but allow players to do both options, so Anatolia vs Balkans missions shouldn't be mutually exclusive... We already have conditions for EU4 Missions, completing certain requirements gives more bonuses etc.

As for the Roman Empire, that should only happen if Ottomans go a very tolerant path, we don't know how they will make Muslim mechanics, but it should at very least require Ottomans to be extremely pro-Dhimmi, and lock them out from any Pan-Islamic Path.

Sultanate of Rum was historically, very Turco-Persian culture, but I do also hope they will eventually have some unique content that is different from Ottomans and very different from Persia.
 
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Sultanate of Rum was historically, very Turco-Persian culture, but I do also hope they will eventually have some unique content that is different from Ottomans and very different from Persia.

Ottomans also use Persian script, one is continiation and evolution of another, and since Anatolia and Persia got seperated after the fall of Great Seljuks, it is natural for Ottomans to differentiate over time
 
If you want to have big modifiers as a random nation, then you should sacrifice some aspect of early game freedom lol

Otherwise continue playing as them and eventually form Rûm

Forming Ottomans as any other beyliks doesnt make sense in any way already so I am trying to make sense of it

Btw, Ottomans should be able to form Roman Empire because it seems like tag requirements are loosened in this game
I was only having Ottomans in mind, actually. But the same goes for everyone, you make systems that are general.

It's fine if they form Rome.
 
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I was only having Ottomans in mind, actually. But the same goes for everyone, you make systems that are general.

It's fine if they form Rome.

It is already overly general lol as every tag in the game can form Ottomans after culture converting to Turkish

It is not a system it is a formation condition, and every formable in the game has a condition, both Ottomans and Rûm is the ultimate goal for other Beyliks, so creating a condition to decide which one it will go make sense huh? Other than clicking a button in the end by doing the same thing lol, right now game treats like Ottomans and Rûm founded same which is inaccurate

Rûm and Ottomans should have different formation conditions

Great Britain and Angevin Empire have different formable conditions right? Do you also want to form both of them by doing the same thing lol, it is nonsense
 
It is already overly general lol as every tag in the game can form Ottomans after culture converting to Turkish

It is not a system it is a formation condition, and every formable in the game has a condition, both Ottomans and Rûm is the ultimate goal for other Beyliks, so creating a condition to decide which one it will go make sense huh? Other than clicking a button in the end by doing the same thing lol, right now game treats like Ottomans and Rûm founded same which is inaccurate

Rûm and Ottomans should have different formation conditions

Great Britain and Angevin Empire have different formable conditions right? Do you also want to form both of them by doing the same thing lol, it is nonsense
I feel like we're getting off topic here.

Your initial statement was that a tag should have to choose one direction of expansion to check off a criteria box on a formable, and we've given reasons for why that's extremely railroading AND doesn't take into account the context of the playthrough - you can't expect each playthrough to have the same map layout nor alliance webs, so just arbitrarily deciding a tag "Has to go here first" because they did so in OUR history is just railroading taken to the extreme.
That's not fun nor is it dynamic, that's pure "History happened one way and therefor it could only ever happen that way!" and I profusely refuse to accept that.
 
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They enacted Devshirme system because of that, and Janissaries followed that, that is the entire difference between other beyliks and Ottomans, playing as normal as any other beylik then getting Janissaries doesnt make any sense, it is like having Napoleon without having Revolutionary France lol
The concept of slave soldiers is nothing new and not just invented by the Ottomans. Gilman were widespread. It was even in place before the Ottomans by the Mamluks. Where do you get the idea that it is an exclusive Ottoman invention? By all means call them Gilman or Mamluks or "sultanin kullari" or whatever you want. It is not an argument for other beyliks being incapable of forming their own body-guard units. Or just dont give them janissaries but regular turkish infantry troops. However everyone around them have some sort of special units and most likely they would have developed their own.
You arent forced, dont do that then, then also dont expect to have Janissaries as Karamanids or Aydınids
I dont care about the Janissaries. I care about being locked into a certain path, simply because I want to conquer stuff in the order I want.
Yes it should be blocked too, forming Andulus as Morocco is stupid anyways (as they didnt Form Andulus as Almohads and Almoravids which were controlling the Andulus formation conditions in eu4
Agree to disagree.
You cannot form Angevin if you didnt get France lol same thing
I can form Angevin after conquering the british isles.
 
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Other beyliks lose forming the Ottomans and locked into Rûm if they dont follow the historical Ottoman early moves
Which is nonsense. Imagen expecting Eretna to conquer Balkan lands first for the Ottoman path. It is ridiculous.
If you want to form Ottomans by uniting Anatolia, you might as well form Roman Empire by taking Tunis
If I want to form the Romans I can start by conquering Tunis first. Your comparison makes no sense at all.
 
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I feel like we're getting off topic here.

Your initial statement was that a tag should have to choose one direction of expansion to check off a criteria box on a formable, and we've given reasons for why that's extremely railroading AND doesn't take into account the context of the playthrough - you can't expect each playthrough to have the same map layout nor alliance webs, so just arbitrarily deciding a tag "Has to go here first" because they did so in OUR history is just railroading taken to the extreme.
That's not fun nor is it dynamic, that's pure "History happened one way and therefor it could only ever happen that way!" and I profusely refuse to accept that.


My initial statement wasnt that lol you dont choose anything your reward changes based on what you done it isnt a choice from the beginning

Forming Roman Empire by taking Roman borders doesnt make the gsme railroady, you just want easy modifiers by doing nothing
 
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The concept of slave soldiers is nothing new and not just invented by the Ottomans. Gilman were widespread. It was even in place before the Ottomans by the Mamluks. Where do you get the idea that it is an exclusive Ottoman invention? By all means call them Gilman or Mamluks or "sultanin kullari" or whatever you want. It is not an argument for other beyliks being incapable of forming their own body-guard units. Or just dont give them janissaries but regular turkish infantry troops. However everyone around them have some sort of special units and most likely they would have developed their own.
Janissaries and Gilman are extemely different lol, one is sold slaves or POW from the primarily Steppes which consist of mostly Kipchaks, one consist of Taking children from Conquered Christian subjects
Which was unique to Ottomans in history, otherwise we could just call it ghilman as it is the term used for all other Muslim states


Like I said we are talking about forming Ottomans as other beyliks, which doesnt include what the other beyliks would do, they simply copy Ottomans contentwise and their motivations cannot vary therefore

I dont care about the Janissaries. I care about being locked into a certain path, simply because I want to conquer stuff in the order I want.

Agree to disagree.

I can form Angevin after conquering the british isles.

Disagree to disagree, I want some decisions to be meaningful and make sense, if I can form Ottomans as Karamanids by conquering Persia it is stupid and beyond alt history, it becomes meme content
 
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My initial statement wasnt that lol you dont choose anything your reward changes based on what you done it isnt a choice from the beginning

Forming Roman Empire by taking Roman borders doesnt make the gsme railroady, you just want easy modifiers by doing nothing
That's just a convoluted way of saying "if you don't know better you have different rewards" while a Player who wants to form a specific tag is utterly screwed, and not at all "rewarded." Bruh.
 
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Which is nonsense. Imagen expecting Eretna to conquer Balkan lands first for the Ottoman path. It is ridiculous.
Expecting Eretna to form Ottomans easily is even more ridiculous
If I want to form the Romans I can start by conquering Tunis first. Your comparison makes no sense at all.

No the only condition is taking Tunis, then you can Click form Rome lol, by your logic of coursw because you want to form Ottomans by unifying Anatolia, it is same as Taking Carthage and forming Rome xd
 
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That's just a convoluted way of saying "if you don't know better you have different rewards" while a Player who wants to form a specific tag is utterly screwed, and not at all "rewarded." Bruh.

It isnt doing better as unifying Anatolia first and attacking Balkans first are two mutually exclusive paths therefore there isnt a better, but easier/easier harder depending on nation

Can you form Latin Empire as Orthodox?

No, the answer seems clear right? Yes it is and same for the Rûm/Ottomans

I never seen someone demanding to form a nation by doing exactly the opposite of what they did in history LMAO
 
It isnt doing better as unifying Anatolia first and attacking Balkans first are two mutually exclusive paths therefore there isnt a better, but easier/easier harder depending on nation

Can you form Latin Empire as Orthodox?

No, the answer seems clear right? Yes it is and same for the Rûm/Ottomans

I never seen someone demanding to form a nation by doing exactly the opposite of what they did in history LMAO
We're saying it might not be "hard" but actually suicidal, impossible - leaving you to roll your thumbs until the situation changes because for some reason your Ruler knows he shouldn't be taking this easily conquested land - that just wouldn't be "right."

I'm not versed in Roman history, Rome turned Christian, what prevents an orthodox tag from forming it?

Mate, in EUV we didn't have the styling requirement of having to a specific thing before you did another - you could do missions in the "wrong order" even if you lost some benefits like claims.

I can't keep discussing this when there's no change to your responses.
 
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We're saying it might not be "hard" but actually suicidal, impossible - leaving you to roll your thumbs until the situation changes because for some reason your Ruler knows he shouldn't be taking this easily conquested land - that just wouldn't be "right."

I'm not versed in Roman history, Rome turned Christian, what prevents an orthodox tag from forming it?

Mate, in EUV we didn't have the styling requirement of having to a specific thing before you did another - you could do missions in the "wrong order" even if you lost some benefits like claims.

I can't keep discussing this when there's no change to your responses.
Okay changing my responses, it isnt about what you accomplish things, main difference between Ottomans and Rûm is one focuses on consolidation of Anatolia and other jumping into Balkans early

So the order of things you do in this context makes the difference

It doesnt hurt sandbox experience because if you unified Anatolia first you automatically in Rûm route, so kinda like Timurids, you can either invade India and became Mughals or become Mongol Empire by conquering Steppes and China

Forming Mughals by taking India doesnt make the railroady, but forming Mughals by not invading India makes it meme content

Therefore if you intend to form Ottomans as Eretna ( which already sounds stupid compared to Karesids or Aydınids)

Then you need to withstand the annoyence

It is relatively easy for Aydın, Menteşe via sea, or Karesids via straits directly

But Karaman, Eretna is less likely to form Ottomans and rather go Rûm

( Rûm as Eretna is a bit weird to but not as much as Ottomans)
 
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One thing that I forgot to mention.

I think it is odd that the advance 'Janissaries' only unlocks the Janissary Barracks and not a single unit along with it, for that you need another advance (Janissary Guards).
 
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Okay changing my responses
Thanks for the effort, but I don't think you quite understand the point we're trying to make, I'll get back to that at the end of this reply.

it isnt about what you accomplish things, main difference between Ottomans and Rûm is one focuses on consolidation of Anatolia and other jumping into Balkans early

So the order of things you do in this context makes the difference

It doesnt hurt sandbox experience because if you unified Anatolia first you automatically in Rûm route, so kinda like Timurids, you can either invade India and became Mughals or become Mongol Empire by conquering Steppes and China
As we've said, there are situations where you may not be able to accomplish things. AFAIK we've never had an "order of things" requirement in EUIV and imposing it on EUV is definitely railroading the player. If you take both the Steppes and India, what does it matter which one you took first? You're not forced to tag-switch (though the incentive is there to do so) as soon as you take one of the regions.

Forming Mughals by taking India doesnt make the railroady, but forming Mughals by not invading India makes it meme content

Therefore if you intend to form Ottomans as Eretna ( which already sounds stupid compared to Karesids or Aydınids)

Then you need to withstand the annoyence
We never said that. No one here has said that you should be able to form a tag without conquering the land associated with the tag-switch in EUIV (comparing to that game is easiest to get the point across here).

It is relatively easy for Aydın, Menteşe via sea, or Karesids via straits directly

But Karaman, Eretna is less likely to form Ottomans and rather go Rûm

( Rûm as Eretna is a bit weird to but not as much as Ottomans)
No comment, that's beyond my expertise.

The thing you have to keep in mind here is that what you want isn't going to be applicable solely to the Ottomans/tags forming that Empire or Rûm (yes, you've mentioned the Timurids so you should be aware, but I'll say it anyway) because the system they opt for will be applied to others as well.

As an example, the USA was formed by English colonies - but what if France, Spain or Morocco colonised the North American East Coast instead? Going by your requirements here it sounds like you're saying that only an English colony would be able to form it. Or worse yet - not even an English colony could form it if England colonized South America first, because that's not the order in which they historically colonised the New World.

Do you see the issue here?
 
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