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Tinto Flavour #27 - 13th of June 2025 - Japan, Nanbokucho, Sengoku

Hello and welcome once more to another edition of Tinto Flavour. Today we will continue the Japanese theme by taking a look at the flavor of Japan and the Japanese clans, as well as the situations of the Nanbokuchō and Sengoku Jidai.

After a long period of peace under the Kamakura Shogunate, the islands of Japan were plunged again into war during the Mongol invasions. That debilitated the authority of the Shōgun to the point that Yamato Go-Daigo Tennō was able to wrestle control of the country away from him. However, his intentions of restoring imperial rule were not to come to fruition, as his former ally Shōgun Ashikaga Takauji established a new Japanese Shogunate.

Now Shōgun Ashikaga Takauji rules over the country after Go-Daigo Tennō fled the capital and established himself in Yoshino. The struggle between the central government and the fleeing Emperor is far from over.

Japan.png

These are the estates of Japan:
Japan Estates.png

And it has this unique reform:
Shogunate Reform.png

While the other clans and the imperial courts have these other ones:
Clan Reform.png

Imperial Family.png

Japanese countries have some common advances, and some of the individual clans have also some unique ones. Some examples:
Bushido.png

Head Hunting.png

Codified Bushido.png


Some unique ones (try to guess which clan they are for):
Clans of Tosa.png

Izumi Sea.png

Unlikely Alliances.png

Uninspiring clan.png

Furinkazan.png

Let’s talk now about how the clans behave. Let me start by saying that our recommended country to play in Japan generally is the country of Japan itself, as the clans, being building-based countries, play quite a bit different than regular tags, and thus are rather suited to experienced players that want to try a different and more challenging game style.

That being said, let’s look at how they work. Being building-based countries, they are of course dependent on their buildings. Here is some of them:
Shoen.png

Yamashiro.png


The next ones are exclusive for the imperial court countries and the non-imperial clans, respectively:
Gosho.png

Yakata.png

And another important building that cannot be built manually but it will instead be built automatically when a clan is assigned to be Shugo of a province (see yesterday’s Tinto Talks for that mechanic):
Kokufu.png

As you can see, both their economy and their troops will depend directly on the buildings that they own, so their strategy is to expand their presence by building more of those buildings and also taking the ones owned by other clans in war.

Now that we mention war, it’s time to talk about the two civil war situations in the game. Let’s start with the Nanbokuchō Jidai, a situation that starts just at the beginning of the game. Initially, all countries all assigned to support either the northern or the southern court, according to their historical alliances, but when the situation starts, countries will get the following event:
Nanbokuchou start event.png

With this, the clans will be able to choose to switch loyalties, or even declare neutrality, although for obvious reasons neither the two courts nor the shogunate are able to change their allegiances. The whole country will thus be divided into sides:
Nanbokuchou panel.png

Nanbokuchou map.png

Even after the situation has started, countries can choose to change their loyalty, not only via the actions in the situation panel but also through events that will fire during the situation allowing for that. Besides that, there will also be other events firing with options of getting casus belli or even declaring wars, making it so that chaos is ensured.

One important thing to note is that as long as the Nanbokuchō Jidai situation is active, countries will not be able to declare war on others supporting the same side as them. If you want to attack another clan that is supporting the same side as you, you will have to do it after the situation is resolved (or choose to change your loyalty, of course).

To end the situation, one of the two courts must be forced to disappear, through a special peace treaty “Force Imperial Abdication”.

So, we just had a civil war, what about a second one? Whether the Nanbokuchō Jidai situation resolves successfully or not, an even bigger civil war will still be looming. The Sengoku Jidai situation can happen after 1400 if there is no Shōgun, or if the Shōgun is in a weak position (low legitimacy or stability, or with rebellion problems), or if there are more than 6 wars currently active among the clans. As such, a strong shogunate will be able to avoid falling into it if they manage to keep their children in check.

Once it starts, the stronger and bigger clans will automatically transform into landed Daimyō, with the rest receiving an event with the option to also become landed, at the cost of opinion with the shogunate.
Sengoku Event Start.png

Becoming landed will have many consequences. For once, all locations in the shogunate in which they have a presence with their buildings will become owned by them, and they will receive a new government reform replacing the “Japanese Clan” one:
Daimyo Reform.png

Even if a country does not choose to become landed with this event, they may have the option to do so in the future, both via further events that can fire during the situation, and also directly through the action “Proclaim Independence” in the situation panel:
Sengoku Panel.png

The actions available in the panel are slightly different for the Shōgun, giving extra tools to control the many clans, both the ones that have been already landed and those that are still as building-based countries:
Sengoku Shogun Actions.png


The objective of the Shōgun will thus be to curb the autonomy of the clans, while the objective of any clan would be to gain sufficient power to either become the Shōgun themselves or to destroy the shogunate entirely. The situation will end when there is only a single country in the shogunate (with the exception of allowing for the presence of a building-based emperor), or when the Shōgun has managed to reduce all other clans to just a single location building-based country.

As with the Nanbokuchō Jidai, there will be some events firing during the situation, giving the countries options to gain casus belli, declare wars, etc, and there are also some event chains of interaction between the Shōgun and the clans when the former uses the action to “Summon to Court”.

And that is all for today. With almost 150 countries in the Shogunate, there is much more to unpack in the game, but this is as far as we can show here.

As an extra treat, because many of you asked about it, here's an updated view of the terrain map for Japan, with an especial effect of cherry blossoms during spring:
Japan Terrain.png


Next week @Pavía will be back, so I'll leave you in his care (I still don't know what will be the schedule for next week, sorry).

And remember to Wishlist Europa Universalis V now!
 
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The description of the Japanese Clans reform should say "fertile ground", not fertile grown.
It would make sense for the yamashiro building to give a fort level or some fort defence to their location.
 
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How is the population of an unlanded clan counted? Looking at their buildings it doesn't seem like employed pops make up the entirety of their countries
 
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Subject: Question & Suggestion on the End Condition for Japan's "Situation"
Dear Paradox Development Studio,
I hope you don't mind another piece of feedback. I'd like to ask a question and make a suggestion regarding the end condition for Japan's "Situation," as described in Developer Diary #27, to further enrich the historical context.
The diary states that the Situation in Japan ends when "there is only a single country in the shogunate" or when "the Shōgun has managed to reduce all other clans to just a single location building-based country." This is a clear and understandable objective, focused on eliminating all rivals from the map.
However, historically, the daimyō under the Oda/Toyotomi regimes and the various domains (han) under the Edo Shogunate's Bakuhan system continued to exist as "countries" with vast territories and a certain degree of autonomy, even under the rule of a central hegemon. They were not merely tiny, single-location entities, but at times massive subject nations exceeding a million koku.
Reflecting this historical reality, I would like to propose the following to make the form of Japan's unification more diverse and realistic:
  • Proposal & Question: Could an additional option be added to the end conditions for Japan's unification Situation: "making all other clans a vassal or subject of the Shōgun"?
    • In Gameplay Terms: This would allow the player (as the Shōgun) to pursue not only a "direct rule route" by physically annexing or reducing all rivals, but also a "feudal rule route" where they can subdue other daimyō through force or diplomacy and allow them to remain as large vassals within a powerful shogunate (or Bakuhan system).
    • If unification is achieved via this route, the Shōgun would gain immense income and manpower from their subjects. However, they would also face a new governing challenge: constantly managing the loyalty of these powerful, large vassals, similar to the difficulties faced by the real Edo Shogunate.
  • Benefits of this Proposal:
    1. Enhanced Historical Realism: It would naturally represent the extremely important political structures of Japanese history, such as the Oda/Toyotomi regimes and the Edo Bakuhan system.
    2. Strategic Diversity: Players could aim for unification through a completely different strategy—building a powerful network of vassals—instead of just map-painting.
    3. Deeper Post-Unification Gameplay: The game wouldn't just "end" with direct rule. It would create tense and deep gameplay even after unification, as players would need to skillfully manage powerful subjects (like the Tozama daimyō) and be wary of potential rebellions.
Incorporating the historical characteristic that Japan's "unification" did not necessarily mean the creation of a unitary state could make the gameplay for Japan in EU5 even more unique and replayable. I would be grateful if you would consider this.
Sincerely,
itoma_aikon
 
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The two civil war situations looks very promising for the immersion in Japan.

I hope that this concept of vassals "changing side" during the situation will inspire the devs for the hundred years war between France and England, and that we will see some french vassals changing side or declaring neutrality / autonomy depending on context, in favor of England. From an arithmetic point of view, never would England have caused so much issues to France and almost won the war if all french vassals had followed the will of the crown with dicipline !

This all concept of having "situations" with specific mechanics, and random events specific to the situation, is amazing for me. I was arguing for this in EUIV. Can you guarantee that the civil wars in Japan will last for quite a long period (many decades), and not be easy to resolve in a couple of years only, even by the player, even by using exploits ?
 
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Is there any content for the rise of peasant leagues like the Iga Ikki or Koka Ikki?

"The Kōka ikki or Kōka Confederacy, historically known as the Kōka-gun Chūsō, was a military confederation and network of ninja (then known as shinobi) in Kōka District (often spelled Kōga) in Southern Ōmi Province during the Sengoku period of Japan. Kōga-ryū, one of the two major traditions of ninjutsu that survived by fleeing to the mountains, is named after the confederacy and attributes its origins to it. The confederation emerged in the 15th century when local "jizamurai" (lower status samurai landholders) formed mutual defense and aid co-operatives. Local co-operatives together formed larger co-operatives, and all together at the district level. The armies of Kōka achieved fame in 1487 in the Battle of Magari, when they assisted the Rokkaku clan (who controlled the portions of Southern Ōmi province immediately to the north) in defeating a punitive expedition by Ashikaga Yoshihisa. In gratitude for their assistance, the Rokkaku granted 21 prominent families from Kōka positions as retainers."

"The Iga ikki, full name Iga Sokoku Ikki, also known as the Iga Republic, Iga Confederacy, or Iga Commune, was a republic-style military confederation of ninjas (then known as shinobi) based in Iga Province during the Sengoku period of Japan. One of the two major schools of ninjutsu, Iga-ryū, is attributed to and takes its name from this confederation. During the second half of the 15th century, the ninja families in Iga formed a military confederacy dedicated to the defense of the province. After centuries of rivalry with its northern neighbor, Kōka District in Ōmi Province, eventually Iga worked closely with in alliance with Kōka. In the 16th century, a constitution was drafted based on principles of mutual defense and voluntary association. The confederacy produced legendary figures such as Momochi Sandayu [ja], Fujibayashi Nagato [ja], Hattori Hanzō, Tateoka Doshun, and Shimotsuge no Kizaru. The activities of Iga eventually drew the ire of the Oda clan, who launched invasions in 1579 and 1581. The first invasion was decisively repelled by Iga, but the second overwhelmed the Iga forces and Oda Nobunaga viciously destroyed the confederation. Some ninja were spared and their activities allowed to continue. After Nobunaga's assassination in 1582, Iga and Kōka ninja entered the service of Tokugawa Ieyasu and his descendants into the Tokugawa shogunate."

Not right now, although I have it in my notes and I'd like to add something for them eventually.
 
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What happens to the buildings of a building-based entity, when it ends up getting land ownership? Do you keep the buildings? Can you still build more of them?
 
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Given that the Shōgun is locked in to supporting the northern court is a southern court victory meant to be borderline impossible? Given that the shogun starts with half of the Japanese population it would seem he could rival all the clans combined. Or do the clans punch far above their weight, to the point the Shōgun is only worth perhaps a dozen clans, rather than the 100+ you’d expect from the raw populations?
 
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Couple of typos if I may be so bold:

The description of the Japanses Clan gov reform should read "fertile ground" rather than "fertile grown".

The description of the Head Hunting advance - I think it should either be "the enemies they fell" or "the enemies they have felled", though that sounds a bit clunky and maybe "the enemies they've slain" might work better.
Thank you, fixed.
 
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There's currently no difference, but I'd definitely would like to add something special for the Southern Court eventually.

I think it's important that this is one day the case.

Perhaps it should be thus; winning as the Northern Court (the historical path) will be easier, but it will maintain the Shogunate and leave the doorway open to Sengokou Jidai.

Winning with the Southern Court should be more difficult as the ahistorical path, but the end result will be more centralised realm earlier with a greatly reduced chance of triggering Sengokou Jidai.

P.S. Is there any way for the winner of the first civil war to prevent Sengokou Jidai or is it inevitable?
 
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I think it's important that this is one day the case.

Perhaps it should be thus; winning as the Northern Court (the historical path) will be easier, but it will maintain the Shogunate and leave the doorway open to Sengokou Jidai.

Winning with the Southern Court should be more difficult as the ahistorical path, but the end result will be more centralised realm earlier with a greatly reduced chance of triggering Sengokou Jidai.
Given the Shōgun starts with half the Japanese population and is locked into supporting the northern court, a southern court victory already seems improbable. Now maybe I’m overestimating the strength of the Shōgun relative to the clans, in which case there should probably be some additional weighting in favor of the northern court, but a southern court victory should be a big deal for any player looking towards an imperial restoration.
 
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Ah, finally, we have achieved the advance of...
Uninspired clan
I mean, that one in itself is fine.. but it doesn't sound like a morale raiser now does it?

It sounds more like "we're being ignomiously ignored, so we work harder to compensate" = slight discipline boost?
 

Subject: Questions and Suggestions regarding Japan in DD #27

Dear Paradox Development Studio,
Thank you for your continuous efforts in developing удивительные games. As a long-time fan and history enthusiast, I was thrilled to see the details about Japan in Developer Diary #23. I am particularly impressed by your ambition to translate the dynamic changes from the Nanbokuchō to the Sengoku period into game systems.
To that end, I would like to ask a few questions and offer some suggestions to make the proposed systems even more engaging and historically immersive.
1. Regarding the movement of warlords during the Nanbokuchō period:
The diary explains the situation with two Imperial Courts. Historically, it was a common pattern for warlords who lost internal power struggles within the Ashikaga Shogunate (e.g., the faction of Ashikaga Tadayoshi during the Kannō Disturbance) to join the opposing Southern Court to claim their own legitimacy.
  • Question: Are there plans to introduce a system (via events or decisions) that represents this dynamic movement of "losers of political strife switching to the opposing court"? I believe this is a crucial element to portray the Nanbokuchō conflict not just as a war between two blocs, but as a fluid political struggle, preventing a static gameplay loop.
2. Regarding "Force Imperial Abdication" and the possibility of the Later Southern Court (Go-Nanboku-chō):
The special peace treaty "Force Imperial Abdication" was mentioned, which is a very interesting mechanic. However, historically, even after the unification by the Northern Court, the descendants of the Southern Court's imperial line continued to hold some political influence as the "Later Southern Court." They were even supported by the Western Army during the Ōnin War, remaining a source of conflict.
  • Question: After one court is eliminated via "Force Imperial Abdication," is there a possibility for the descendants of that dynasty to survive as a government-in-exile or pretender, like the "Later Southern Court," who could be brought back政治的に during a later civil war? This would be effective in simulating the difficulty of achieving long-term stability, where a single war doesn't decide everything.
3. Regarding the start of the Sengoku period and the "Landed" process:
The diary states that the Sengoku Jidai begins after 1400 under specific conditions, at which point powerful clans become "Landed Daimyō." I would like to propose a refinement to this process to better align it with the historical timeline.
Historically, the "Shugo Daimyō"—warlords who had already established strong, unified control over their provinces—existed from the early 15th century, well before the Sengoku period officially "started." They achieved this de facto "landed" status gradually by making the Shugo position hereditary and imposing their own taxes on their domains (Shugo Danisen).
Furthermore, the major shift after the Ōnin War was not that all Shugo became "Landed" from scratch, but rather that the mandatory "Zaikyō-sei" (system of residency in Kyoto) collapsed, leading many Shugo to permanently return to their domains in a new system of "Zaigoku-sei" (provincial residency).
  • Suggestions & Questions:
    • Suggestion 1: Instead of a single event making clans "landed" at the start of the Sengoku period, what if Shugo could, from the early game, gradually increase their control over their provinces through decisions and events (e.g., "Absorb Kokuga Functions")? This would represent the organic process of becoming a Shugo Daimyō.
    • Suggestion 2: Then, at the end of a major civil war like the Ōnin War, an event could trigger for many Shugo to shift their stance from "Zaikyō" (Kyoto-based) to "Zaigoku" (province-based). Wouldn't this more naturally represent the historical turning point where the Shogunate's authority collapsed and each Daimyō began to focus on building their own regional power base, truly acting as Sengoku Daimyō?
I hope these questions and suggestions can contribute to making Japan in EU5 an even more incredible experience. I eagerly look forward to the next developer diary.
Sincerely,
itoma_aikon
1. Yes, there is a way for them to switch sides
2. Unfortunately no, although the characters will still be alive and thus eligible to become pretenders to succession
3. Thank you, I'll save this and see if we can apply the feedback.
 
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Is there a path for early imperial restoration after either the sengoku jidai or nanbokucho jidai, and if so is there unique content for imperial japan? When a new clan wins the sengoku jidai will the clans be re-established under the new shogunate seeing as the edo period still had the daimyo existing? Also have you considered renaming the shogunate government reform to bakufu?
 
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