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Tinto Flavour #7 - 21st of February 2025 - Bavaria

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Fridays in which we take a look at the flavourish content of the new, super-secret Project Caesar.

Today we will be taking a look at Bavaria. Or, to be more precise, at the Duchies of Upper Bavaria and Lower Bavaria, as the Wittelsbach divided their lands among different branches; in addition to these two, the Treaty of Pavia (1329) also established the lands of the Electorate of the Palatinate of the Rhine (best known as The Palatinate) to be ruled by a third Wittelsbach branch.

"The Heartland of the Holy Roman Empire endured the long period of the Great Interregnum and looks to the next decades with worry. In the face of the advancing age of Holy Roman Emperor Ludwig IV. von Wittelsbach, the families of von Wittelsbach, Luxembourg, and von Habsburg once more prepare for a competition for the imperial crown. While imperial authority south of the Alps is deteriorating, German merchants scramble to secure their trade routes into Italy while Hanseatic League are enjoying their dominance over the region of North Germany.

Under the leadership of Holy Roman Emperor Ludwig IV. von Wittelsbach, the Duchy of Upper Bavaria is at the height of its power, as he commands respect and authority among the imperial princes. While the Duchy of Lower Bavaria is ruled by Duke Heinrich XIV. von Wittelsbach, his health is steadily declining due to his leprosy, and his expected early death could lead to a reunification of Bavaria.

With strong relations among the von Wittelsbach rulers of Europe, Bavaria is ready to claim its right to the imperial crown and dominance over central Europe against their rivals in Bohemia and Austria."
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Country Selection.png

You might have noticed that the courtroom is different from other European rulers we’ve shown previously; this is the Throne of Charlemagne, part of the Palatine Chapel in Aachen, used in the coronation of Holy Roman Emperors; thus, is the one used by these rulers. We’d like to eventually keep adding some more unique art, such as the Imperial Crown; but, as usual, please take the UI, 2D and 3D art as WIP.​

Here you have the core lands of Bavaria, divided among Upper Bavaria, Lower Bavaria, and the Palatinate:
Bavaria.png

Don't you love how Bavarians decided to split their lands into multiple polities?​

The position of the Wittelsbach is quite strong, as Emperor Ludwig’s son, also named Ludwig, rules over the Electorate of Brandenburg, thus making the dynasty control 2 out of the 7 Imperial Electorates effectively:
von Wittelsbach.png

Here you can see the lands controlled by the Wittelsbach dynasty, and also their two main rivals for the Imperial Crown, the Luxembourg and Habsburg dynasties.

One of the main objectives for any of the branches of the Wittelsbach dynasty will be to unite these lands, and create/recreate the Kingdom of Bavaria, one of the formable countries that we presented in last week’s Tinto Talks:
Form Bavaria.png

You might have noticed that we fixed the starting country of Bavaria, and now is Tier III, which is the Kingdom rank.​

Let’s start today with the narrative content, namely events, linked to the aforementioned dynastic issues. Early in the game, if the Duke of Lower Bavaria dies of his leprosy, leaving an underage ruler, you might receive this event:
Duchy Lower Bavaria.png

The first option makes Lower Bavaria a vassal, the second directly annexes it, and the third leaves the Duchy on its own.​

If you select either the first or the second option, a follow-up event about the revision of the Treaty of Pavia may trigger:
Treaty of Pavia.png

I promise this treaty is historical, and it's not related to my vanity!​

If we select the second option, this may happen:
Palatinate falls in our hands.png

Wittelsbach lands are reunited! We need to do some fixes for the dynamic localization of the Palatinate of the Rhine to appear properly in all instances, by the way.​

Leading to this outcome:
Bavaria reunited.png

The Kingdom of Bavaria is recreated!​

And you will also get this another event, as you may decide to change your succession law at this moment:
A New Law.png

Cognatic Primogeniture sounds like a more stable law, indeed.​

Besides the Wittelsbach dynastical troubles, other Bavarian dynamic historical events that may be of interest:
Ockham.png

Ockham’s Razor in action!

Codex Bavarica1.png

Codex Bavarica2.png

What about a new Code of Laws?​

This is an interesting set of events. If the player decides to build the Munich Residenz, a unique building will be constructed, also opening the option to get further expansions:
Munich Residenz1.png

Munich Residenz2.png

Munich Residenz3.png

Munich Residenz4.png

Let’s now move towards the structural content of Bavaria. German countries start with this privilege for the nobility, coupled with their succession law:
Right to Inherit.png

Bavaria also has a policy that portrays its itinerant court:
Itinerant Court.png

As the Holy Roman Emperor, Ludwig starts in possession of some unique works of art, the Imperial Regalia:
Coronation Gospel.png

Saint Stephans Purse.png

Imperial Crown.png

Imperial Orb.png

Bavaria also starts with this local work of art:
Marienkapelle.png

Which may be expanded via an event:
Old Marienkapelle.png

Finally, some Bavarian advances, covering from the Age of Traditions to the Age of Revolutions:
Bavarian Dukedom.png

Dreams of Unification.png

One Faith for Bavaria.png

Bavarian Purity Law.png

However my favourite is this one:
Skilled Brewers.png

That unlocks this production method:
Bavarian Breweries.png

Which you can compare with the other PMs for Breweries:
Brewery Production Methods.png

And that’s all for today! I hope you enjoyed it! Next week we will be travelling back to the Mediterranean shores, to the land of Morocco. Cheers!
 
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  • Looks like a bad zoom call using a fake background. The foreground has no connection to the background (This is also true for the event images with 3d models).
  • The flag still looks wrong.
  • Too much space for so little information.
Country%20Selection.png


  • The title feels off, Should it just be "Bavaria" as it feels weird that 'Form Bavaria' is of type 'Formable Country'
  • If you put the tier in the sub-title you wouldn't need the first line "Formable Country | Tier III"
  • The second box just doesn't read well. Have you tried the tree view for this? I think even though it would be longer it would flow better and be more readable.
Form%20Bavaria.png


  • So Ghosts have entered the zoom call. (still a complete disconnect from the {nice looking] background)
  • A bit of an alignment issue with the text
  • Because of the shrinking the text to fit our long title and leaving the Duke's at base size it is making it feel like he is more important.
  • Only foreigners get flags?
1740151929440.png


  • Add the law to the subtitle to remove the need for the separate line "Policy | Legal Code"
  • Estates Satisfaction stacks with Noble Estate satisfaction, right?
Codex%20Bavarica2.png


  • IIRC, all the effects are nulled if not in Capital. This is not obvious as it appears as two lists (with the bulleted lines being the titles of the lists. Maybe change the wording of the first line to better indicate
    • "Building provides no effects if not in Capital"
    • "Building only provides effects if in Capital"
  • Building lists 50, event lists 41.10 (unmodified)
  • If the building is not in the Capital, do I still pay the production method?
  • Looking at advances having the age marker in the title, I am wondering if we do the same here to help declutter the second line while unifying the 'available in...' marker between the views
Munich%20Residenz2.png


  • The flavor text ties it to a succession law but that is it? Are they locked in anyway? Can I change the Succession law without removing the Privilege?
Right%20to%20Inherit.png


  • Don't need the 'Available in...' line as that is what the Icon in the top right of the title bar is telling me. (For all the advances)
  • I would swap the location of thing being unlocked and the work unlocks so that it follows the style "<Icon><Thing>" left and <Effect> right
  • For the actual method, could it just replace the base method instead of adding another? Why give the option to produce 1 with the same inputs when it can make 1.2? I think it adds clutter to the Production methods.
Skilled%20Brewers.png


Hope any of this is useful. Sorry for the long post.
 
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As for the art, that crown looks way too shiny I think. Looks out of place. PDX devs might be desensitized to it, but it jumps out at me right when I look at it as a person who hasn't seen much of the art.
 
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I've got a question about Works of Art like Saint Stephan's Purse. What happens to "saint-based" relics like this if a country such as Bavaria were to turn Protestant? Is there an event where they might be destroyed?
 
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Tiwaz4 said:
I've got a question about Works of Art like Saint Stephan's Purse. What happens to "saint-based" relics like this if a country such as Bavaria were to turn Protestant? Is there an event where they might be destroyed?
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Was iconoclasm that common with protestantism? I think it happened with like hussitism and wycliffism but I'm ignorant on Lutheran. It's an interesting thought, but I really hope the player has a choice to protect the art as historical value.

I guess it's not really iconoclasm but it was the closest term I could think of.
 
What's this mysterious "Kingdom of Bavaria" you're talking about? Bavaria became a kingdom only in 1806. In the early middle ages it was a duchy, not a kingdom.
 
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Pavía said:
The Kingdom of Bavaria is recreated!​
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as another post said here, in the hre becoming a kingdom is dependant on the emperor's apporoval, so i suggest Bavaria would become a kingdom only if the emperor himself form it or with hre mechanic the emperor must approve it, otherwise Bavaria should be formed as duchy @Pavía
 
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Rinmun said:
What's this mysterious "Kingdom of Bavaria" you're talking about? Bavaria became a kingdom only in 1806. In the early middle ages it was a duchy, not a kingdom.
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Between 788 and 907, the Carolingian rulers of Bavaria used the title "King of Bavaria". So yes, in the Early Middle Ages it was temporarily a Kingdom, which is probably what "recreated" refers to.
 
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Once you change the inheritance law of Bavaria, does that mean your lands will no longer split upon your leader's death even if you aren't an elector? If I remember correctly all HRE tags that weren't electors (and I'd imagine republics and theocracies would be exempt as well) would see their lands split upon succession right? Is this an inherent part of playing in the HRE or is this linked to a succession law which you can change even if you aren't an elector or the emperor? (Probably at the cost of stability.) Losing sizeable chunks of my country every few decades and then having to reconquer them again doesn't exactly seem like it'd be fun to play with. Especially because I'd imagine it makes most HRE countries kinda unviable to play since it'd be almost impossible to build up enough power to face for example Austria or god forbid, France or Poland.
 
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Mef said:
Between 788 and 907, the Carolingian rulers of Bavaria used the title "King of Bavaria". So yes, in the Early Middle Ages it was temporarily a Kingdom, which is probably what "recreated" refers to.
Click to expand...
You're correct that Bavaria was a kingdom in the early Middle Ages, but the game is supposed to be modeled after a much later period of history. When Bavaria was formed during the period in which the game is set, it was formed as a duchy. Maybe the "Kingdom of Bavaria" formable should be a plausible or ahistorical formable that can be turned off in the game (akin to the Roman Empire) unless the HRE has been destroyed.
 
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Mef said:
Between 788 and 907, the Carolingian rulers of Bavaria used the title "King of Bavaria". So yes, in the Early Middle Ages it was temporarily a Kingdom, which is probably what "recreated" refers to.
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I didn't know that. But while true, it seems it was not exactly something you'd refer to as a "proud instance of unification to look back to". From what I understand it was only one domain of the East Frankian Realm, referred to as "kingdom" because it was ruled by the king directly, rather than an independent kingdom. So in its "kingdom" period, Bavaria was less independent than when it was ruled by a Bavarian duke before or after. Exaggeratedly you could compare this to if Alsace-Lorraine had called itself "Kaiserreich Elsaß-Lothringen" because it was ruled by the Kaiser? idk
 
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