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Tinto Maps #11 - 19th of July 2024 - Scandinavia

Welcome everyone, today I’ll talk about the Scandinavian region. Part of it was the first maps we drew for Project Caesar back in early spring of 2020. Today we will look at all parts of the Scandinavian Peninsula (including Denmark & the Kola Peninsula). Greenland & Iceland will be looked at in a separate map talk.

Countries
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Scandinavia has only five location based countries at the start of the game. Denmark, who is in a bit of a crisis at the moment and their vassal Schleswig is in the south. On the peninsula proper, we have Sweden and Norway who are in a union at the moment as they share the same King. Scania was sold off to Sweden by the Danes five years before the start of the game.

There is no need to show off a Dynasty map, as Denmark does not exactly have a ruling King at the moment, and the rest is ruled by Magnus IV of the Bjälbo Dynasty.

Locations

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While Scandinavia has a lot of locations, we have to remember that this is a huge area, and together with Kola & Karelia, it is the same size as France, Spain, Portugal, Italy & Benelux together.. The size of locations are smaller in the south, particularly where the population was and still is relatively bigger.


Provinces
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We have tried to follow historical traditional province borders here, but some ended up too big like Småland, Lappland or Österbotten, which were cut into pieces, and some are just too tiny to matter.

Now I wish I had time to write up a history about each province here, but I’ll just add a few fun tidbits.

Satakunta, which is the Finnish name, is named in Finnish like the old regions of Svitjod, which were divided into “hundreds”. It was also refered to Björneborgs län, named after Björneborg (Pori in Finnish), a town founded by Johan III when Ulfsby was no longer accessible from the sea. The regiment from the area was the last Swedish Army Regiment that has ever won a battle inside Sweden, and their military march is a song I think every Finnish Citizen want to play repeatedly on TV during the Olympics..

Småland, which is divided into Tiohärad and Kalmar Län here, should really be referred to as Småländerna, as there were 12 small countries there.. Compared to the 3 other much larger countries of Svealand, Östra Götaland and Västra Götaland. And now why is Östra Götaland not containing Kinda?

Topograhy
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It's mostly flatland.. I went by the rule that if the peaks are less than 500 meters it's flatland, and you need to have over 1,000 meters and rather uneven to be a mountain. Norway is interesting there.. We do have a lot of impassable areas in Norway, making this one of the most fun parts to play in.

Vegetation
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There are some farmlands in Denmark, Scania and in Götaland, but the rest is basically a big forest.. And up north it's even worse.

Climate
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Yeah, well. There is a reason I moved to Spain..


Cultures
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Most of the north east is still Sami, and the Finnish tribes have not unified into the more modern Finnish culture. We decided to call the modern Meänkieli with their more ancient name of Kven. We still have Gutnish on Gotland, but the Norwegian, Danish and Swedish cultures have been becoming more monolithic already.

Religions
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The Finnish are mostly Catholic, but the Sami, Tavastian, Savonia, Bjarmian and Karelians are mostly still following their old pagan beliefs. There are still some Norse people in the forests of Dalarna and Västmanland..

Raw Materials
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It is mostly lumber, fish, wild game, fur and iron. We of course have the famous copper mountain as well.

Markets
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Scandinavia is divided by the rich markets of Lübeck and Riga. A strong Scandinavian country will probably want to set up their own unified market.


Population
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Not many people live up in the north..
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I liked nice round numbers as estimates, but the team I hired for content design are mad men, and wanted the distribution to feel more organic.. For the far north of Scandinavia we know that people were semi nomadic, and that some people lived there.. But if it was 100 there, or 250 there or 20 there it's just guesswork..


And let's end with a quote from the Greatest of Poets..

Jag vill, jag skall bli frisk, det får ej prutas,
Jag måste upp, om jag i graven låg.
Lyss, hör, ni hör kanonerna vid Jutas;
Där avgörs finska härens återtåg.



Next week Pavia is back with some German maps…
 
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How is Swedish expansion to the north carried out? For example, Oulu seems to have been at least a contested place in this time period, even if not directly Swedish. But it's clear that the parties of Sweden and Novgorod had a decent idea of what was going on there so some sort of an "Exploration" mechanic doesn't feel right. Is there some sort of a direct colonization option available here or some other way?

[Can Swedish estates expand independently of the state as well?]
 
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I hope Sweden will have a hard time keeping Scania, Halland, Blekinge and Gotland. I love playing Sweden, so I don’t want them being too easy to play. Hopefully there are events helping danish AI making Denmark great again.
 
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A few name suggestions for norwegian locations:

Jaeren should be Jæren
Tryssil should be Trysil
Glommadal, only seen this on the english wikipedia. The norwegian name would be Glåmdal, but Solør is a better name for the location
Vestglomma, never heard this name. Maybe it could be called Hedmarksvidda.
 
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Its a Dynamic Historical Event for Denmark.
Forgive me for asking this in the Scandinavian Tinto maps, but when I saw your answer I could not help to wonder wether there will be an English/British Historical event to merge London, Westminster and Southwark into one location?
 
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"The Christianization of Scandinavia, as well as other Nordic countries and the Baltic countries, took place between the 8th and the 12th centuries."

"The earliest signs of Christianization were in the 830s with Ansgar's construction of churches in Birka and Hedeby.[1] The conversion of Scandinavian kings occurred over the period 960–1020."
source:
Christianization of Scandinavia wiki

So you tell me that Poland (& Polabians) can't have their own pockets of Slavic pagan religion (mainly around Rugia island & Upper Silesia/Kashubia) while Scandinavia can?
Christianization of Poland in particular happened in the same time period, since 966, and Polabians resisted and became christian only in 12th century( after Albert the Bear conquered last remains of independent pagan slavs in modern east Germany) while Scandinavia was all converted till 12th century.

West slavs also had their Vikings and paradoxically they were the last vikings in history. They were called Chąśnicy (from the word Hansa) or Wiciędze (from Viking) and they captured and destroyed Kanugahella(modern Kungälv) in 1136, which was then capital of Norway, they also sacked Danish capital of Roskilde. According to Snorri Sturulson saga.
Era of Chąśnicy/ Wiciędze ended only in 1185 with vassalizaiton of prince Bogusław I by Danish King.


 
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Something beautiful!

Today Scandinavia, on Monday the Nordic islands and next Friday HRE - a great streak!!!

And on top of that, Baltic & Polish Feedback is coming!!!
 
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Could you add more lakes to the region, it would add a lot of flavour to the region and add a unique taste different from other regions in my opinion with granular lakes blocking movements here and there(. Both for Sweeden and Finland) Also, I saw a mad Finnish guy complaining about lack of lakes before
 
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"The Christianization of Scandinavia, as well as other Nordic countries and the Baltic countries, took place between the 8th and the 12th centuries."

"The earliest signs of Christianization were in the 830s with Ansgar's construction of churches in Birka and Hedeby.[1] The conversion of Scandinavian kings occurred over the period 960–1020."
source:
Christianization of Scandinavia wiki

So you tell me that Poland (& Polabians) can't have their own pockets of Slavic pagan religion (mainly around Rugia island & Upper Silesia/Kashubia) while Scandinavia can?
Christianization of Poland in particular happened in the same time period, since 966, and Polabians resisted and became christian only in 12th century( after Albert the Bear conquered last remains of independent pagan slavs in modern east Germany) while Scandinavia was all converted till 12th century.

West slavs also had their Vikings and paradoxically they were the last vikings in history. They were called Chąśnicy (from the word Hansa) or Wiciędze (from Viking) and they captured and destroyed Kanugahella(modern Kungälv) in 1136, which was then capital of Norway, they also sacked Danish capital of Roskilde. According to Snorri Sturulson saga.
Era of Chąśnicy/ Wiciędze ended only in 1185 with vassalizaiton of prince Bogusław I by Danish King.
In the case of Poland, I think that the remains of Slavic pagans could be located in northern Mazovia and generally in the east of Poland - and at most Kashubia. Silesia was the earliest Christianized region of modern Poland.

Moreover, I believe that in the area of broadly understood Rus there should be quite large concentrations of Slavic pagans - especially in the north and east of Rus.
 
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Fyn could also be split threeways.
Hell, I would even argue that Svendborg ought to be a location as well. It was an important seafaring hub, together with the islands south of it, as well as a seat for a Franciscan monastery.

So Odense, Nyborg, Svendborg, and then I guess Assens is fine, else Middelfart, Bogense or Faaborg could be alternatives.

Also, consider including the island of Als, which is currently part of the Aabenraa location, as part of the Fyn province, as it was part of the Odense bishopric. In that case, I would also make it its own location named Sønderborg, as it was a significant fortified town since the mid-12th Century as a protection against Wendish raids from Mecklenburg and Pomerania.
 
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I hope Animism and Shamanism will be a religion group, Seeing Suomenusko and Sami Shamanism kinda hype me for other regions too if they got flavour they deserve I hope these are not just for Europe
 
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First reactions:
- Koppo? Did you mean Koppö, the old name of Kristinestad?

Yes.. Using the "keys" to localization file tends to not give us the umlauts
 
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Will recreating Swedens EU4 borders with colonization be something wich will take a entire century or be relativiely quick?

It depends, balance is not set in stone yet.. even in 1444 it was not colonized really.
 
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Meänkieli is language though, right? It's right there in the name, so not exactly a culture. Which means calling the people who speak it Kven is a good idea.
 
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In the case of Poland, I think that the remains of Slavic pagans could be located in northern Mazovia and generally in the east of Poland - and at most Kashubia. Silesia was the earliest Christianized region of modern Poland.

Moreover, I believe that in the area of broadly understood Rus there should be quite large concentrations of Slavic pagans - especially in the north and east of Rus.
What makes it even funnier is that archeologists didn't discover the supposed ancient temple of Norse religion in Uppsala. (Mentioned in Vikings series e.g.) While Arcona is the place of excavations for many many years by now.
I mentioned Snorri Sturluson as he accounted the raids of Slavic vikings of Racibor I but it was also he who is the source for Norse temple in Uppsala.
It's just ironic not to mention Slavic religion in this game while you've Norse at the same time.

I mentioned Upper Silesia mainly of Ślęża mountain, place of Sun cult since bronze age till christianization of Poland.
 
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3) Would a Geatish culture make sense? Elfdalian? IDK, correct me Scandinavian friends.

Geatish is about 200 years dead and assimilated. 1337 swedish culture is basically more geats than the old svear.
 
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