Tinto Maps #11 - 19th of July 2024 - Scandinavia

[Kr4mpus]

Would you like feedback to the cultures in Sønderjylland (Slesvig) here or in the Germany maps?

 

[Tantara]

MINERAL SUGGESTIONS:
- (1) Copper east of Trondheim
- (2) copper southwest of Trondheim
- (3) Iron in Arendal
- (4) Iron in coastal Telemark
- (possible but not recommended) Iron northeast of Oslo
- (possible but not recommended) silver deposits in the middle of Oslo city center

(1) There should be a copper deposit at Meråker in the mountains east of Trondheim, which was one of Norway's primary metalworking/industrial centers at the time. There's archaeological evidence that cistercian monks helped the locals set up hydroworks to run the bellows for a metal smelter, and Trondheim would produce both copper bells and a mint, which heavily blended copper in with silver. There's still a village/mountain in the area called kopperå
Source here.

(2) There could be a copper deposit just to the southwest of Trondheim
The Løkken Mines opened by the 1500s and were in operation until the 1960s.

(3) Arendal may also have iron
Arendal was at one point one of Norway's primary mining towns, receiving its charter and developing in part because of the iron resources. It had a smelter by the 1600s. Mining began at industrial levels in the mid 1500s and lasted until the industry generally died across Norway in the mid-late 1800s.
Map of iron locations about Arendal

(4) There should also be a source of iron in Telemark at the time.
Mosstrand was a well known source of bog iron, and the area (including Skien) also had functioning mines from 1500-1900s. Norway wasn't a huge producer of iron during this time frame as it could not compete well internationally, but it did have deposits. Notable mines: Fossum Iron Mines and Langøy Iron Mines
Source for Telemark
Source for Mosstrand specifically
Source for Skien specifically
The Bamble area in the map below is generally where these mines are located

(bonus) The Grua Mining District east of Oslo
The Hadeland/Grua mining area/Hakadal are some of Norway's oldest recorded mining locations and remained in use through the industrial period. For gameplay purposes though, it probably makes sense to keep the area agricultural. The wool/fish in Telemark/Arendal don't really add anything gameplay-wise, while iron might add interesting options for the player.

As a general note, Norway's first ironworks were out of Skien (Telemark) and Hakadal (Hadeland/Grua mining district).

(Bonus) The Akersberg Mines
An additional fun note, but there was actually a silver mine in the middle of Akersberg/Oslo, which was called "the dragon pits."
It was used from the viking period through the 1100s and was reopened from the mid 16th to the early 17th century.




EDIT: Hardanger Fruit source
It also appears that this map is missing the Hardanger agricultural/fruit area, which is the northernmost area of commercial fruit cultivation. The fjord (with the elevation) creates a microclimate really favorable to apples, which began in earnest in the 1300s, but it also grows plums, pears, and other fruit. This area makes up almost half of all of Norway's fruit production. It is currently a stone resource.

Edit 2: Jaeren/Stavanger agricultural area
These areas were some of Norway's most productive grain growing area. It should be livestock or grains of some sort rather than fish.

Norway was the more industrialized part of Denmark-Norway, with Denmark supplying agricultural goods to Norway and Norway supplying minerals/industry, timber, and fish to Copenhagen.

Norway was also economically exploited by Copenhagen during this period, which almost certainly limited its economic potential.

• Sources indicate that the tax burden was very high on Norway in absolute terms and relative to other countries through the 1500-1600s.
• Less than 1/3 of that tax was spent in Norway, with 2/3s invested in Denmark instead
• Denmark bartered away Norwegian land and trade benefits to outside parties (Swedes, Dutch, Hansa), and Norway was economically hurt whenever it was dragged into Denmark's wars
• Denmark kept customs duties, and Copenhagen-based merchants directed private-sector sources of wealth back to Denmark
• The Danish crown kept land seized from the Norwegian catholic church during the reformation, redirecting subsequent incomes to the Danish crown

If the player manages to stay free of Denmark, they should be in a better position to invest internally

 

[Daniel the Finlander]

Randomly remembered that in 2018 I used to post feedback on population data in the M&T mod forum. Sadly the source website with accurate numbers is now 404, but I had the numbers in the message itself, albeit rounded into the tens of thousands used by M&T… They’re rough estimates for 1350, so a bit higher than they should be in 1337, and they’re numbers for provinces, not locations… this ended up being less helpful than I had hoped, all because I didn’t figure to take a screenshot of the website back when it was still available.

Managed to find a decent source with estimates for the number of houses in Finland around 1350. It’s not 100% reliable, but estimates is all we have.

(Source is in Finnish)
http://www.kolumbus.fi/rastas/carelia2.html#jako1323

This takes the amount of houses, multiplies the number by 10 and uses that to roughly estimate the population. Note that a ”house” usually contained one family and all the workers, meaning 10 per house is not an exaggeration.

According to this, the population of Finnish provinces in 1356 should be the following:
Åland: 10,000 rural pop
Varsinaissuomi: 40,000 rural pop (!!!)
Uusimaa: 20,000 rural pop
Häme: 10,000-20,000 rural pop
Satakunta: 20,000 rural pop
Savo: <10,000 rural pop (told you it’s a backwater, why does it have 20,000 rural pop in the current version I’ll never know)
Pohjanmaa: 10,000 rural pop
Viipuri: 10,000-20,000 rural pop
Edit: Pohjois-Karjala: <10,000 rural pop


We do have accurate numbers for the amount of houses in Finland from 1540 (Thanks, Gustav Vasa). The population at that point was historically roughly the following:
Åland: 10,000 rural pop
Varsinaissuomi: 70,000 rural pop
Uusimaa: 40,000 rural pop
Häme: 40,000-50,000 rural pop
Satakunta: 40,000 rural pop
Savo: 30,000 rural pop
Pohjanmaa: 30,000 rural pop
Viipuri: 60,000 rural pop
Edit: Pohjois-Karjala: ~20,000 rural pop
EDIT: Added Karelia estimates
Käkisalmi/Kexholm: ~30,000 rural pop
Total population of Karelia, that is, Ladogan Karelia (Käkisalmi), Olonets Karelia (Aunus), the coast of Viena (Viena) was around 105,000 in early 16th century and around 135,000 in the 1560s.

Yes, I still am annoyed by how useless and worthless Finland is throughout the game for Sweden/Novgorod/Russia/Scandinavia/a blobbing player. It’s not historically accurate at all as there was rapid population growth in the era and Sweden valued the area as a source of taxes and manpower. Mostly the latter as the region remained poor.

I am kind of sad now, I remember that website being the only source I could find that had a number of households for each province, instead of a rough population estimate for all of Finland. Oh well, let this be a lesson that nothing on the internet lasts forever.

 

[Ekyman]

Randomly remembered that in 2018 I used to post feedback on population data in the M&T mod forum. Sadly the source website with accurate numbers is now 404, but I had the numbers in the message itself, albeit rounded into the tens of thousands used by M&T… They’re rough estimates for 1350, so a bit higher than they should be in 1337, and they’re numbers for provinces, not locations… this ended up being less helpful than I had hoped, all because I didn’t figure to take a screenshot of the website back when it was still available.



I am kind of sad now, I remember that website being the only source I could find that had a number of households for each province, instead of a rough population estimate for all of Finland. Oh well, let this be a lesson that nothing on the internet lasts forever.

The internet never forgets

https://web.archive.org/web/20190724051358/http://www.kolumbus.fi/rastas/carelia2.html#jako1323

 

[Hankster]

I am a bit late on commenting on this Tinto Map, but seeing there are still other regions ahead in the feedback queue, I will take the opportunity to share my input.

In general, I find the Scandinavia map to be very well-made. My comments cover southern Sweden, Scania, and Denmark (Zealand), which are the areas I am most familiar with and mainly concern the naming of locations.

Apologies in advance if I repeat comments previously made by others, as I have not had the time to go through the entire thread.

TIOHÄRAD:
In an earlier comment, Johan mentioned that as far as possible you try to name locations after cities or towns. I think that is a sound approach, but as evident by the current iteration of the map, that is not always the case. Not least in Småland, many of the locations are named after the traditional administrative division “härad” –corresponding to the historical English administrative division “Hundred”. It is also present in the province name “Tiohärad”, literally meaning “ten härad”. Each Hundred had its own “tingsplats”, or thingstead where the local thing gathered for both court sessions and local decision-making.

Naming a location after a Hundred is not necessarily a bad thing, as it is both historically accurate and especially as many of these locations were quite scarcely populated. However, as it stands Hundred names are mixed with the names of proper locations without obvious reasons why. When possible, to stick with your general approach, it would therefore be preferable to use the name of towns or significant villages. If you decide to stick with the Hundred names, it would be better if this approach was more systematically applied, with the exception of the larger towns and cities. Below I have tried to include options for both for the majority of locations.

Waestbo – The three locations currently named Waestbo, Trollaborg, and Ljungby were all part of the small country of Finnveden, traditionally divided into Waestbo, Östbo, and Sunnerbo referring to the western, eastern, and southern parts of the small country, each being its own Hundred. For the name Waestbo to make sense, the other two locations should also have their Hundred names, otherwise change the location name to an actual location. Here there are a few options: Either Ölmestad (first mentioned in 1296 and the traditional thingstead of Waestbo Hundred), Reftele (church village first mentioned in 1311 which later grew to incorporate Ölmestad), or Gislaved (first mentioned in 1434, a marketplace and later the site of important early industrial endeavors – ironworks, glassworks – in the mid-18th century, currently the largest town in Waestbo).

Trollaborg – named after the Trollaborg Castle, destroyed during the Engelbrekt rebellion in 1434 and never rebuilt. In my opinion it does not make sense having a name that becomes anachronistic already a hundred years into the game’s timeline. The location name should be Wernamo (modern spelling Värnamo), which already in the Middle Ages became the main population center of Östbo Hundred and an important marketplace. If you prefer going with the Hundred naming policy, as you have done with the neighboring Waestbo, then it should be called Östbo.

I would also reconsider the shape of this location. The traditional Östbo Hundred did not extend north of Waestbo; they ran parallel to each other. Consider instead extending Waestbo a bit to the north, while also extending Jönköping a bit to the west. This would mean dividing up the lands that were historically part of Mo Hundred between the game locations Jönköping and Waestbo, which fits well with how nowadays the historical Mo Hundred is part of Jönköping and Gislaved municipality respectively.

Ljungby – this is the best choice if you go with town/village names, however if you prefer Hundred names it should be Sunnerbo. Fun fact: just like Trollaborg, within the borders of this location was the site of a medieval castle, Piksborg, destroyed and never rebuilt during the Engelbrekt rebellion in 1434.

Situated along the rivers Nissan and Lagan, the three locations Waestbo, Trollaborg, and Ljungby were historically important routes – the Nissan Road and the Lagan Road – used by Danish armies when attacking Sweden and vice-versa. This meant that the region was often used to stage attacks, being time and time again ravaged by war. Could this be represented by adding roads from the beginning or would that grant to much control for Sweden over these peripheral locations? Fun fact: a relatively large part of Swedish high nobility comes from this part of Småland, due to large landholders being tasked with border defense and in return relieved of taxes.

The aforementioned roads, running all the way along the rivers down to the coastal cities of Halland (at the start of the game part of Scania but for much of the game’s timeline a part of Denmark) were also used for an important cross-border cattle trade. This could be represented by changing the raw materials in either of these locations to livestock. Interestingly enough, when Scania and Halland became part of Sweden in the 17th century, this had severe negative economic effects on this part of Småland, as the wider Danish market became more inaccessible to the cattle farmers of Finnveden.

Albo –should be spelled Allbo with two L’s. Not to be confused with the Scanian Albo Hundred. If you prefer town/village names, it should either be Aringsås (church villages and historical thingstead) or Alvesta (an important village that later grew to incorporate Aringsås and which is currently the main population center in the area). Both these names were first mentioned in 1413.

Vallsjö – this one is a bit difficult. Possible options would be Sävsjö, Vrigstad, and Komstad – all of them being thingsteads during various times of the later part of the game’s timeline.

Konga – there are a couple of options for Konga as well, should you choose a proper location name as opposed to the Hundred name. Nöbbele (church village first mentioned in 1377) or any of the historical thingsteads Ryd, Sjöbol, Kvarnmåla, Möckleryd or Ingelstad (where it remained from the 18th century until early 20th century).

Uppvidinge – rename Lenhovda, first mentioned in 1266 and being the thingstead of Uppvidinge Hundred from at least 1408 until the 20th century.

ÖSTRA SMÅLAND:
The shape of the province of Östra Småland is very strange, especially having Jönköping be a part of it. That said, I recognize that it is difficult to find a good solution that is not too ahistorical. One way could be to add Jönköping to Tiohärad and make Kinda be part of Östra Götaland (unlike the rest of Småland which formed its own judicial district in the 16th century, Kinda remained part of the “Östgöta lagsaga”, i.e. the Östergötland Judicial District).

Just like with Tiohärad, it should be considered if some of the locations currently named after a historical Hundred or the historical small countries making up Småland should be changed to proper location names. Alternatives are presented below:

Kinda – this location causes some issues due to a lack of a large population center. Alternatives are Tjärstad (first mentioned in 1343 and the medieval thingstead of Kinda Hundred), Rimforsa (first mentioned in 1386 as “Forsa” and which developed into an important village in this area) or Kisa (which has medieval origins, became thingstead during the 17th century and today is the main town of Kinda municipality).

Tjust – rename Västervik. The city of Västervik is of medieval origins, first mentioned in 1275.

Sevede – rename Vimmerby, which is first mentioned in 1253 and recognized as a city at least since 1350.

Handbörda – rename Högsby, the main population center and thingstead, first mentioned in 1337, but with a church dating back to the 13th century.

Öland – to stick with the naming policy, the location should be named after a town, not the island. The options are either Köpingsvik (a population center already in the 8th century, reaching its peak between the 10th and 13th centuries) or Borgholm (first mentioned in the 1280s, although the castle with the same name dates already from the 12th century, later growing into an important harbor overtaking Köpingsvik and eventually in the 19th century receiving town privileges).

Kalmar – the location should have a castle from the beginning of the game. Already at the start of the game the castle had stood for some time as an important defensive position along the borders between Sweden and Scania/Denmark. It later played important historical roles with the formation of the Kalmar Union – a decision made at the castle – and militarily during the Swedish War of Liberation from said union under Gustav Vasa.

VÄSTRA GÖTALAND:
Lödöse – it is great to see this important medieval town make it into the game, however, I assume that there is a DHE representing the founding of Gothenburg and renaming the location.

ZEALAND:
Roskilde – I would divide Roskilde into two – Roskilde and Copenhagen. While it has been mentioned that there will be a DHE renaming the location to Copenhagen, representing the decline of Roskilde and the rise of the current Danish capital, Roskilde was and remained important in its own right, not least as the seat of a bishopric. Given the relatively high population density of Zealand as opposed to other parts of Scandinavia, it would make sense to have an additional location.

HALLAND:
Varberg – the location should have a castle from the beginning of the game. Ever since the Middle Ages and throughout most of the game’s timeline, Varberg was one of the best fortified sites in Scandinavia, situated as it was in the borderlands between Sweden and Denmark. King Magnus Eriksson of Sweden (1319—1364) and his wife Queen Blanka of Namur spent considerable time at Varberg castle during his reign.

Falkenberg (new) – consider adding this as a location in between Varberg and Halmstad. First mentioned in 1298. Just like Zealand and much of the rest of the southern coastline of Scandinavia, this was a relatively populous areas, why an additional location makes sense.

BLEKINGE:
Brekne – this location is in the wrong place. In reality, it is situated where you already have the location Ronneby (which should keep its name). Instead rename this location to Lyckå, a medieval city first mentioned in 1449, which was also the site of Lyckå Castle. It lost its town privileges in 1600. There should be a DHE related to the founding of Karlskrona in the 17th century, which became the main Swedish naval base on the Baltic Sea and for a time the third largest city of the Swedish Empire after Riga and Stockholm.

GÖINGE:
Åsbo – instead of using a Hundred name consider renaming the location Båstad, which was first mentioned in 1450 and received town privileges soon after that.

Osby – consider renaming Vä, alternative spelling Wae, which historically was the most important city of this part of Scania until destroyed by Gustaf II Adolf’s troops in 1612 during the Kalmar War and the Danish king Christian IV instead founded the nearby city of Kristianstad. Nota bene, renaming the location would probably require that the borders of the current location are pushed a bit to the south for it to be geographically correct in relation to Gladsax.

MALMÖHUS:
Just like Zealand and Halland, this was a relatively populous part of Scandinavia, why I have allowed myself to propose a new additional location:

Ystad (new) – an important city on the southern coast of Scania, east of Malmö. It was first mentioned in 1244. It became an important trading post for fish.

While Scania, Halland, and Blekinge are correctly shown to be part of the Kingdom of Scania (in personal union with Sweden) at the start of the game, there should be a DHE or even a series of DHEs to represent their return to Denmark under King Valdemar Atterdag.

UPPLAND:
Sigtuna (new) – consider adding this as a location between Enköping and Uppsala. It is one of the oldest towns in Sweden, founded by King Eric the Victorious in the late 10th century and the first capital of Sweden following its Christianization. Although it started to decline towards the late 13th century due to the founding of Stockholm, it remained important not least as a religious center until the Reformation in the 16th century when the city’s Dominican convent was closed and expropriated.

OTHER:
Lakes – People have pointed to the lack of lakes on the map, not least in Finland. This is the case in Sweden as well. Large and historically important lakes in terms of commerce and travel should be added. I am mainly thinking of Bolmen situated between Waestbo, Trollaborg, and Ljungby and Hjälmaren extending east from Örebro.

 

[Inzano]

For some reason i can't get text and pictures to work

I think you need to post more posts to unlock the features. Greatings, from VN I am the wappen smith for failed CK3 version.

 

[Capitano Diego Alatriste]

The internet never forgets

Mauri Rastas: "Karjalan historia"

Picture of the population from that link.

 

[marcus917]

I think you need to post more posts to unlock the features. Greatings, from VN I am the wappen smith for failed CK3 version.

yeah it was sad that it failed i spent so many hours on my work

 

[Kvarts1]

Is there going to be any mechanics related to Stockfish and its importance to the Norwegian economy?
As well as the seasonal boosts to the cod fishing in Lofoten?

 

[Daniel the Finlander]

The internet never forgets

https://web.archive.org/web/20190724051358/http://www.kolumbus.fi/rastas/carelia2.html#jako1323

I really didn’t expect there to be a web archive of that, thanks a lot!

 

[Daniel the Finlander]

View attachment 1173377
Picture of the population from that link.

Rough English translation:

Size of settlement in different parts of Finland and Karelia:

It is presumed that each house/household has 10 inhabitants

Kexholm Karelia according to tax account from year 1500: 3200 houses/households = 32000 inhabitants



Rest of Finland:

Province:		Houses:		Population:
	circa year 1350	1540s	circa year 1350	1540s
Åland	900	1100	9000	11000
Finland Proper	4000	7000	40000	70000
Nyland	2000	4200	20000	42000
Tavastia	1300	4600	13000	46000
Satakunta	1800	4000	18000	40000
Savonia	600	3400	6000	34000
Ostrobothnia	1000	3300	10000	33000
Viborg Karelia	1500	6300	15000	63000
In total	13100	33900	131000	339000

 

[Didsss]

Gotland should be an autonomous vassal of Sweden and its population should be increased, especially Visby.

The only "contemporary" (1633) source on population I found was the casualties for the Battles of Masterby and Visby from 1361, where it states that in total 3,500 Gotlanders fought against the Danish invaders led by Valdemar, and 3,300 of the Gotlenders were killed in both battles with minimal Danish losses. Archaeology also backs up this number since almost 1,200 bodies have been excavated from the Visby battle site during the 20th century. Strontium analysis of individuals from three of five mass graves associated with the battle shows 1 mass grave with 100% local individuals and 2 with around 25% Danish/North German heritage. Source

This would have been 10 years after a 50% population drop after the black death and so it is hard to imagine Gotlanders being able to field that large a number if the population was half of what it was at the game start (around 16,000 in 1337).

These battles also support the idea of a semi-independent Gotland since no Swedish troops were mentioned as defenders of Gotland when the Danes attacked (The Swedish King only sent them a letter warning of an invasion). The island then passed between Swedish, Danish, Victual, and Teutonic control until it was sold to Denmark by the Teutonic Order in 1408 and it was finally retaken by Sweden in 1645. Judging from the low control and the sporadic presence of the Danish and Swedish military forces (Valdemar was only in Gotland for two months to extract tribute before taking his troops home) during the 14th Century and how easily and often the island changed hands I would argue that it should be an autonomous vassal and not be an integrated part of Sweden at game start.

Furthermore, Sweden's first attempt at a legal code for all of Sweden (Landslag) during the reign of Magnus Eriksson (Starting ruler of Sweden in 1337) did not mention or include Gotland as it had its own landslag, another sign that Gotland was considered a vassal state and not part of Sweden proper.

The earliest census information about Gotland I found was from 1810, when it had a population of 32,000, with Gotland reaching a peak of 59,000 in 1950. I believe Gotland's population in the last few decades of its glory days in the early 14th-century pre-plague should match the 1810 census more than the population of Gotland in Project Caesar. Source

Especially the city of Visby should be increased from 8,000 to 10-20,000 as it was one of the wealthiest cities in Northern Europe and an equal trading partner to the other Hansa towns in the Baltic like Lubeck (30,000) and Riga (46,000). In fact, the majority of the trade between the two cities flowed through Visby in the 13th and early 14th centuries.

 

[heliostellar]

Why isn't the terra incognito tinted to Norway's color?

 

[eqez]

As mentioned in Tinto talks, the sea provinces outside of Tjust should be calles Tjusts Skärgård.

Tjusts skärgård – Wikipedia

sv.m.wikipedia.org

 

[TheDungen]

So I finally got access to my litterature. So i cna give more accurate information on Blekinge, First of from a vegetation point of view Blekinge should be 4 locations


Only lister should really be grasslands, dalbydgen and östbydgen should be woods and skogsbydgen forest. There's also a not entierly bad argument to be made for that skogsbydgen should really be uncolonized in 1337. Or be decolonized by the plague. It onyl saw large scale resettlement in the 17th century.

From a political organisation point of view you end up with a map closer to the one you use, but since the purpose of locaitons in mainly terrain and warfare (and Belekinge treated like a single political organisaiton anyway) one could argue the map above is better.


The central locaitons for the danish time is (from west to east) Sölvesborg, Elleholm, Ronnyby, and Lyckå there were deliberatly stripped of their city rights when the area became Swedish. Replaced by Karlskrona (mostly replacing Lyckå and Ronneby) and Karlshamn (replacing Elleholm). This could in the worst case be handled using dynamic naming, though it seems a waste seeing as Karlskrona ended up being the third city of Sweden after Stockholm and Riga.
This Brekne you're using as name for Östra Häredh I cannot find any mention of in any of my litterature. Are you perhaps thinking of Brömse? Brömsehus was founded in 1360 so it wouldn't be around in 1337. Instead the military border town that was around in 1337 was Avaskär. Avaskär and Brömsehus are part of a sort of parallel authority to the cities i mentioned earlier, that being the fortificaion towns (the ealier mentioned oness were trade cities) where Avaskär is the oldest, which is later replaced first by Brömsehus, and then by Kristianopel (Kristianople also got the city rights that previously belonged to Lyckå). These are fortified towns meant to counter Sweden having Kalmar on the other side of the border and like Kalmar they declined after the Blekinge become Swedish (some of them were almost completly destroyed in the Scanian war).
If you are thinking of Bräkne-hoby that is in Västra Häredh thus a bad name for Östra Häredh. If you broke västra häredh up into lister and västra häredh then Bräkne-hoby is decent name for that region, but Elleholm is probalby better. An earlier adminisrrative capital for Östra häredh seems to have been Lösen, that held that position around the turn of the first millenium (y1k).





Also Sölvesborg and Ronneby producing wheat makes no sense whatsoever. Östra Häredh producing livestock neither, there was livestock traded through Blekinge but it came from Småland, cattle sold down through Skåne and animal products (like cheese and butter) sold down through Blekinge. Skosmarken actuall produced Iron but maybe not enough for an RGO, but it's odd that you give no iron producing locaitons to Småland or Blekinge to represent Myrmalmen (Bog iron)


You could have iron provinces in småland with some flag where when technology gets high enough the RGO changes becasuse bog iron just isn't producing enough to keep up with the mines in other places. No where in my books does it say wild game was exported from Småland so no idea where you got that idea from. Coastal Blekinge should produce Fish (especially Västra Häredh where Mörrumsån and the salmon runs are) not wheat and Småland and inalnd blekinge shouldprodcue cattle and Iron. Seriously I can find no sources for us growing wheat at all in Blekinge util the 19th century when hardier versions of wheat were cultivated that could grow in Scandinavia. Wheat in Uppland and Halland seems suspect too but I don't know those regions well enough to definitly say that shouldnt be. Though I was under the impression we didn't grow wheat in Sweden before the 19th century, fairly certain I have a book on breadmaking which suggested that we only grew Barleye and rhye in Sweden.

source: Berättelsen om Blekinge Leifh Stenholm

 

[Bergenboy]

Paradox seems to have already adjusted and done some tweaks in Scandinavia!

They seem to have added much more impassable terrain in eastern Norway and many Norwegians will be delighted to see that Mjøsa has been added.

They also seem to have added some wasteland in Finnmark aswell and have adjusted the previous wasteland in the middle of Norway.

Love to see this from Paradox!

 

[Tantara]

Paradox seems to have already adjusted and done some tweaks in Scandinavia!

They seem to have added much more impassable terrain in eastern Norway and many Norwegians will be delighted to see that Mjøsa has been added.

They also seem to have added some wasteland in Finnmark aswell and have adjusted the previous wasteland in the middle of Norway.

Love to see this from Paradox!
View attachment 1175559

I'm also quite happy with this. The wasteland changes are great, and while I might suggest Sami minorities ranging down south into Trondelag, pleased to see they expanded the Sami through the rest of Kola

They've also changed the label from "[CULTURE]" to "[CULTURE] People"
Curious whether this map indicates some new mechanic (cultural integration? settlement? migration?) rather than just simply showing a map update. Johan posted it as a hint for next week's TT rather than a map update

 

[Maxipuchi]

I'm also quite happy with this. The wasteland changes are great, and while I might suggest Sami minorities ranging down south into Trondelag, pleased to see they expanded the Sami through the rest of Kola

They've also changed the label from "[CULTURE]" to "[CULTURE] People"
Curious whether this map indicates some new mechanic (cultural integration? settlement? migration?) rather than just simply showing a map update. Johan posted it as a hint for next week's TT rather than a map update

This isn't a culture map, note how none of the feudal kingdoms are labelled according to their cultures. I believe they're teasing land-less "countries", a new way to play as people groups who did not have extensive governmental organisations. It's very exciting because it didn't make sense in EU4 to play as the Chukchi or other such cultural groups as though they were centralised political entities, but I still wanted to be able to play said groups anyway, it seems they're coming up with more believable and authentic gameplay for them.

 

[TheDungen]

I just realized, WTH is going on with östra Småland? How is Jönköping in östra Småland? It's in the north western corner. Either add it to Tiohärad or create a province called Norra småland. If there aren't enough locaitons for it I can easily give you names for more locations in Småland. Startign with Breaking "Kalmar" up in "Norra Möre" and "Södra Möre". You have smaller locations in the nereby holy roman empire. It also makes sense that Småland becomes a pit when it comes to proximity calculations because it was. It's Små land a bunch of small and hard to administer counties. Some interior areas of Småöand and Belekinge should arguable be uncolonized in 1337 or de colonized by the Black death. Mass scale settiling of the interior only began in the 1600ds. In took until the 19th century before these places got proper churches (before that they had smaller chappels) and didn't have to head down to the coast for proper religious services.

Edit: Though really it's Norra Småland that would need another locaiton, can't help you there, don't know the region well enough. But Tiohärad and Östra Småland are stupidly big. Östra småland has 7 locations, Tiohärad has 9. Meanwhile Belkinge only has 3 and Halland has 4. Östrasmåland is as big as Blekinge and Halland combined and Tiohärad is three times Blekinge. Yes these are the smallest countries in real life Sweden but still.

 

[Smudderz]

Hello, is it too late to chime in with some changes i would wish to see?