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Tinto Maps #11 - 19th of July 2024 - Scandinavia

Welcome everyone, today I’ll talk about the Scandinavian region. Part of it was the first maps we drew for Project Caesar back in early spring of 2020. Today we will look at all parts of the Scandinavian Peninsula (including Denmark & the Kola Peninsula). Greenland & Iceland will be looked at in a separate map talk.

Countries
SCA_countries.png

Scandinavia has only five location based countries at the start of the game. Denmark, who is in a bit of a crisis at the moment and their vassal Schleswig is in the south. On the peninsula proper, we have Sweden and Norway who are in a union at the moment as they share the same King. Scania was sold off to Sweden by the Danes five years before the start of the game.

There is no need to show off a Dynasty map, as Denmark does not exactly have a ruling King at the moment, and the rest is ruled by Magnus IV of the Bjälbo Dynasty.

Locations

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While Scandinavia has a lot of locations, we have to remember that this is a huge area, and together with Kola & Karelia, it is the same size as France, Spain, Portugal, Italy & Benelux together.. The size of locations are smaller in the south, particularly where the population was and still is relatively bigger.


Provinces
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We have tried to follow historical traditional province borders here, but some ended up too big like Småland, Lappland or Österbotten, which were cut into pieces, and some are just too tiny to matter.

Now I wish I had time to write up a history about each province here, but I’ll just add a few fun tidbits.

Satakunta, which is the Finnish name, is named in Finnish like the old regions of Svitjod, which were divided into “hundreds”. It was also refered to Björneborgs län, named after Björneborg (Pori in Finnish), a town founded by Johan III when Ulfsby was no longer accessible from the sea. The regiment from the area was the last Swedish Army Regiment that has ever won a battle inside Sweden, and their military march is a song I think every Finnish Citizen want to play repeatedly on TV during the Olympics..

Småland, which is divided into Tiohärad and Kalmar Län here, should really be referred to as Småländerna, as there were 12 small countries there.. Compared to the 3 other much larger countries of Svealand, Östra Götaland and Västra Götaland. And now why is Östra Götaland not containing Kinda?

Topograhy
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It's mostly flatland.. I went by the rule that if the peaks are less than 500 meters it's flatland, and you need to have over 1,000 meters and rather uneven to be a mountain. Norway is interesting there.. We do have a lot of impassable areas in Norway, making this one of the most fun parts to play in.

Vegetation
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There are some farmlands in Denmark, Scania and in Götaland, but the rest is basically a big forest.. And up north it's even worse.

Climate
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Yeah, well. There is a reason I moved to Spain..


Cultures
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Most of the north east is still Sami, and the Finnish tribes have not unified into the more modern Finnish culture. We decided to call the modern Meänkieli with their more ancient name of Kven. We still have Gutnish on Gotland, but the Norwegian, Danish and Swedish cultures have been becoming more monolithic already.

Religions
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The Finnish are mostly Catholic, but the Sami, Tavastian, Savonia, Bjarmian and Karelians are mostly still following their old pagan beliefs. There are still some Norse people in the forests of Dalarna and Västmanland..

Raw Materials
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It is mostly lumber, fish, wild game, fur and iron. We of course have the famous copper mountain as well.

Markets
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Scandinavia is divided by the rich markets of Lübeck and Riga. A strong Scandinavian country will probably want to set up their own unified market.


Population
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Not many people live up in the north..
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I liked nice round numbers as estimates, but the team I hired for content design are mad men, and wanted the distribution to feel more organic.. For the far north of Scandinavia we know that people were semi nomadic, and that some people lived there.. But if it was 100 there, or 250 there or 20 there it's just guesswork..


And let's end with a quote from the Greatest of Poets..

Jag vill, jag skall bli frisk, det får ej prutas,
Jag måste upp, om jag i graven låg.
Lyss, hör, ni hör kanonerna vid Jutas;
Där avgörs finska härens återtåg.



Next week Pavia is back with some German maps…
 
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Less than a month left until the first year anniversary of Scandinavia tinto maps. I wonder if we’ll get the feedback post before that?
 
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I'm back again with more low quality maps scavenged from the depths of the internet showing rough area of iron age/medieval settlement in Finland:

1751214548283.png

Source: https://www.mikroliitti.fi/tietoa/asutus/kartat.htm

Crunchy low quality map (full version seems to be behind a paywall, and it's a 20 year old pre-HTML era site, so...) showing habitation areas circa 800-1300 AD, with Sami areas in yellow, bothnian in green, finnish in red/brown and karelian/savonian in orange

1751214799965.jpeg

Source: Suomalainen sotilas muinaisurhosta Nihtiin, Kariston kirjapaino, Hämeenlinna 2010

Burial sites from different eras, light blue for Merovingian era, red for crusade era, dark blue for both

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Source: https://antti.jarvenpaa.fidisk.fi/s.../suku/historia/eremarck/rajat1300luvulla.html

Map showing the settlement of northern Finland starting from 1550, with blue being the Tavastian sphere and red being the Savonian sphere (note that the borders do not show settlement, just land claiming, with some of the land being wilderness that was used for eränkäynti https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eränkäynti )

(I'd also like to note that 1550s was an important decade for Finland, as that's when Gustav Vasa decreed the settlement of the interior wilderness regions, which before this were only used for eränkäynti. Before this, in the period between 1337-1550, there was much slower rate of settlement expansion)
 
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First I want to say euV looks like a great game and I really appreciate the openess you have for community feedback.
In that vein I'd like to come with some feedback regarding Norway, particularly concerning climate and population distribution. Another commenter already did a great comment on the distrbution of Norway as a whole here, therefore I will focus primarely on Eastern Norway.

Climate
Firstly regarding climate, considering how harsh the penalty for arctic climate is it should be quite consistent which locations are arctic and not.
Here is the climate average of three locations with continental climate currently in euV:
Reykjavik (yearly average 4,3C):
View attachment 1314730
Anchorage (yearly average 2,1C):
View attachment 1314729
Galtur, Austria (yearly average -1,3C):
View attachment 1314727

And here are two Inland locations in Norway with arctic climate:
Hamar (yearly average 4,7C):
View attachment 1314726
Hønefoss, Ringerrike (yearly average 4,6C):
View attachment 1314731

source


These numbers are one thing, but i believe the arctic climate is also supposed to represent areas not very fit for human habitation. Therefore it could be helpful to also use a map of population density of Norway, where you can clearly see which climate zones are fit for human habitation and not:

View attachment 1314733
translation: inhabitants per square kilometre
note on this map: you can also here see how the lake of Mjøsa helps as a temperature regulator in Inland Norway, giving milder winters.

Based on this population density and actual temperature data I would suggest changing following locations to continental climate:
Kongsvinger, Hamar, Vestglomma (should be renamed Ringsaker), Lillehammer, Vardal, Ringerrike.


Population
Further I'd like to add some comments on population distribution of Eastern Norway, right now the population is too centralized around the Oslofjord, especially the location of Oslo which has a population 3x that of Oslo in real life in 1769. Unfortunately there is no good data for the medieval population of Norway, but there is the cencus of 1769. Which, I believe atleast can give some good pointers to the population of different areas of Norway in relation to eachother. The data from the census I got from the national archives. Using this data I calculated the percentage of some of the areas in eastern Norway in 1769 and compared them to the population percentage of the corresponding locations in euV in 1337, and finally gave a suggestion to what 1337-population these locations should have if they are to have the same pop percentage as in 1769.

View attachment 1314748
Finally while I normally wouldn't link wikipedia as a source they have a sheet based on the data from the national archives which give a quite nice overview over the population of different districts in Norway in 1769. Link

Thank you for your attention, looking forwards to playing this game!
Beautiful post! It contains a lot of things that I previously wanted to say but couldn't muster the energy to.
I sure "enjoyed" my 30 degrees "arctic" summer here in the northwestern part of the Lillehammer location... I fully agree with your climate assessment.

I really appreciate the map changes that the devs have already made. We can always ask for more, but implementing Mjøsa, the valleys + mountains, and making Hamar flatland, is such a great step forward from where we started!

Now that we've had some jam on the side, let's dig in to the meat and potatoes of the post:

If we specifically look to the population of the Gudbrandsdal region, I was a little disappointed with EUV's numbers. The reason for this initial emotional reaction is that when I go out of my house or go into the main valley and further north, I find it a reasonably warm place chock-full of farmlands and old buildings. Lillehammer grew into a city by nature of being the gateway to the fertile valleys from Mjøsa.

The main route from Oslo to Trondheim went through Gudbrandsdalen, not Østerdalen like it does in Johan's christmas dev diary. This is because northern Østerdalen had (and still sort of has) large stretches of unsettled land and forested wilderness. When walking the route up Gudbrandsdalen, the only uninhabited part you had to walk though was the way over Dovrefjell from Dombås to Oppdal. Via a look on google maps sattelite mode, you can see the difference between the two valleys. You can also see the difference on the pop density map that Effy posted.

Due to the importance of that route, the path over Dovrefjell was officially built up in the 1700s, becoming Norway's first official high mountain road.
It would be super cool if this road could be made to naturally get built in-game by making travel through northern Østerdalen harder and/or Gudbrandsdalen easier. My priority in mentioning this road is illustrating the population level.
source <- look in the about section.

This wikipedia page echoes the population estimate effy put up:
> During the High Middle Ages about 40 churches existed, most built in wood except for instances of masonry churches in Eastern Gausdal and Follebu.
> During the 1600s the population again reached the same level as in 1300.
> The 1665 census indicates a population of 13,000.

The article cites a book which I have no access to. I see no reason to doubt our numbers; they look very reasonable.

EUV is looking like it's gonna become a great game. Thanks for staying open and letting us give feedback to help you guys make it even greater!
 
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