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Tinto Maps #19 - 20th of September 2024 - India

Hello everyone, and welcome once again to another Tinto Maps! Today we will be taking a look at India! Yup, a whole subcontinent… Exciting!

Let me say a foreword before I start sharing with you some beautiful maps. Some of you may wonder why we decided to make the entire Indian subcontinent in just one DD, instead of spreading it a bit. There are two reasons for that. The first is the political situation: the Sultanate of Delhi is at its zenith, under Muhammad bin Tughlaq. You will soon see that it rules over more than half of the region, approximately; so splitting that polity into several DDs would have felt weird.

The other is that we felt that a more cohesive approach made sense in this region, as it’s sooo diverse compared to others, that the way we approached it, both for its setup and content, was from the generic to the particular; therefore, we think that it will also help us more when we tackle the review of the region. Speaking of that, don’t worry much about the time available to prepare suggestions; you may already know that we have a backlog of several regions, and therefore weeks, before we hit the Indian review, so you will have plenty of time to research and prepare them. In any case, as it’s a massive task (we know it firsthand), we’ll let you know a bit in advance when we plan to start the in-depth review of it, so you have time to wrap it up.

As a final say, I just want to mention that an old acquaintance of the community, @Trin Tragula , now Design Lead in CK3, helped us to map a big chunk of it. Thanks, mate! And now, maps!

Countries:
Countries.jpg

Colored Wastelands.png

As I just mentioned, the Sultanate of Delhi is at its zenith, under Muhammad bin Tughlaq, extending through the Indo-Gangetic Plain, including Bengal, and to the south, throughout the Deccan. There we have its toughest contender, Vijayanagar, a county that is a bulwark of Hinduism. Other important countries around it are Orissa and Sindh, but much smaller countries generally surround Delhi. You might wonder how it would be possible to stop Delhi from completely controlling the region, then. For this, two things are affecting its capability to achieve it. The first is the base game mechanics: ruling over so many different cultures and religions with low control will be hard. The second is a Situation that involves the Fall of the Sultanate; if Delhi wants to succeed, it will have to fight back against rebellions, which involves the potential independence of the Bengalese countries or newborn ones such as the Bahmanis, and the multiple Indian states around it, which are ready to take over it.

Dynasties:
Dynasties.jpg


Locations:
Locations.jpg

Locations 2.jpg

Locations 3.jpg

Locations 4.jpg
Yes, we are making some adjustments to the coloring of the mapmodes!

Provinces:
Provinces.jpg

Provinces 2.jpg

Provinces 3.jpg

Provinces 4.jpg

Areas:
Areas.jpg

The bug is still there, yes… The area that is to the southwest is Malabar.

Terrain:
Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

Here we have a new type of topography: Atolls. We added it some months ago, as we worked on finishing the map of the Pacific Ocean, and it will be the last one added to the game.

Development:
Development.jpg

A new map mode is born! Here you have the development of India. The most developed place is Delhi, which is part of the fertile Gangetic Plain.

Harbors:
Harbors.jpg


Cultures:
Cultures.jpg

Cultures 2.jpg

Cultures 3.jpg
Not an entirely new map, but a glorious one. We chose it to be the one to present how the different cultures could be present in the game for a reason.

Religions:
Religions.jpg

Religions 2.jpg

Religions 3.jpg
India is the birthplace of numerous religions, and that needs to be reflected in the religious map. The main religion is Hinduism, but don’t be deceived by its homogeneous look, as it will be quite deep feature-wise. We also have Buddhism, which is at a low point, after some centuries of prosecutions. Mahayana is a majority in Sindh, although that's not completely exact, as an earlier form of Buddhism was practiced there; we’re also not 100% convinced about it being a majority, as some sources and accounts set the Islamization of the region to be completed under the Ghaznavids, in the 11th and 12th century, while others delay it until the 14th century - we followed the later approach, but we're very open to feedback in this specific matter. Another form of Buddhism is Theravada, which is the most practiced religion in Sailan. Some interesting minorities present in the region are Jains (yellow stripes), Nestorians (the pink stripe in Malabar, which portrays the ‘Saint Thomas Christians’), Jews (which have their own separate culture, ‘Kochini’), and several Animist confessions, of which we’ve already split Satsana Phi, the traditional religion of Tai people, and Sanamahism, the religion of Meitei people. Oh, although it’s not strictly part of the region, the light blue stripes to the north is Bön religion.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.jpg

Raw Materials 2.jpg

Raw Materials 3.jpg

Raw Materials 4.jpg
India was for some time in the period the wealthiest region of the world, one of the main reasons being that it’s incredibly rich in very different types of resources, including some of the expensive ones. That will make for a very interesting economic gameplay.

Markets:
Markets India.png

There are several market centers in India that we think portray well the situation in 1337: Kabul (yes, it’s in Afghanistan, but it’s one for the area of Kashmir), Delhi, Khambat, Calicut, Pulicat, Varanasi, and Chittagong.

Population:
Population.jpg

Population 2.jpg

Population 3.jpg

Population 4.jpg

Population 5.jpg

Population 10.jpg

Population 9.jpg

Population 6.jpg

Population 7.jpg

Population 8.jpg

India has a big population. To be precise, around 95M pops. Delhi is the second largest country in the world in population, with 41M pops, which makes it a behemoth, with very serious governance challenges. I’m also showing this week the progress we’re making with the coloring of the population mapmode; the stripes on several locations mark that they’re overpopulated, as they have more pops living on them than the pop capacity available (something that may be reviewed, as balancing very densely populated regions such as India or China is really challenging).

And that’s all for today! We hope you enjoyed this massive Tinto Maps. Next week we will be taking a look at the Steppe. Which one, you might wonder? Well, the one ruled by the Golden Horde, from Ukraine in the west to Mongolia in the east. Cheers!
 
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  1. Geographical Proximity:
    • My point about geographical proximity is that the people of Uttarakhand and western Nepal are indeed closer to each other (approximately 250 km) than a person from Rajasthan. This closeness fosters cultural similarities, especially when focusing specifically on western Nepal rather than the entire region.
  2. Jagars and Cultural Practices:
    • If by Jagars you mean the ritual of awakening local deities, it's worth noting that this practice is also observed by the Khasas, including present-day Nepalis of Khas origin. Dangri(Dangariya) is the person whose body the gods use . If you are referring to something different, please clarify.
  3. Divergence of Language:
    • It seems now we agree that Gharwali diverged from Khasa and that the Katyuris were Khasas. This suggests that Gharwali was likely a dialect of Khasa rather than a fully separate language around 1337 AD. The inscription you mentioned was primarily in Sanskrit but had Khasa influences, which is often described as the "earliest form of Gharwali language" rather than the fully developed language we recognize today.
  4. Status of Phool Dei:
    • I acknowledge that I was unaware of Phool Dei's significance as a major festival in Uttarakhand. However, I could not find historical references to it being a major part of Kumaoni or Gharwali culture in 1337 AD. If it did exist, I would appreciate any historical evidence to support its prominence during that time.
  5. Autonomy and Feudalism:
    • While I agree that Garhwal was primarily ruled by Gharpatis and experienced internal conflicts, it's important to note that Kumaon, under the Chand rulers, operated semi-autonomously as feudal lords. The region's mountainous terrain contributed to a more fragmented feudal system, particularly after the weakening of the Khasa king Abhay Malla. Following the disintegration of the Khasa kingdom, the area divided into various principalities (Chaubise Rajya) with significant local lords. This includes at least 46 lords, highlighting a complex feudal structure, similar to that of Garhwal, despite differences in governance.
Another thing to note is that strangely there is very less record of gharwal prior to ajay pal who unified gharwal in 1357 .Strangely the khasas starting losing power during rein of prithvi malla(1338-1358).They lost part of Tibet and doti raika during 1350 .Maybe the control over gharwal had also slipped during his reign allowing ajay pal to consolidate his power and chand to gain indepencedence .This is only a speculation though since lossing doti means probably loosing the control over the west of it (not possible to have vassal on disjointed terrioty).just a speculation though.
It seems to me that we do agree on most of the points, just differ on how should they be implemented in the game!

1. Yes, that is why I was excluding the western region as it has similar geography and similar culture too, and it is represented so in the game too. My point is contention are the areas further than that.
2. Yes, I am talking about that. As far as I am aware, it is only widely practiced until Doti and not further than that. If it is, please enlighten me.
3. Yes, it is already a hotly debated topic as to what constitutes a language and dialect. Let's take mutual intelligibilty as the primary factor in our case. Then, as you would notice the language used in Devalgarh inscription, the inscription in Kumaon and those in Khasa region are definitely not mutually intelligible. A case can be made that a Kumaoni speaker may understand a little bit of the Garhwal one and a little bit of the Khasa one, but these two would definitely not understand each other. Therefore, I make the case that by this point these languages have diverged enough.
4. As you said, due to the lack of historical sources, ascertaining any thing of this sort does not seem possible.
5. It is possible as you said, but the tales that we know of the battles of unification do not mention anything of this sort. For example, in the first battle Ajay Pal fights, against the Kumaonis for Badhan, the Kumaonis stand united under the Chands while Garhwal is still fragmented. One difference is that, we know that when Kanak Pal ascended the throne of Chandpur Garh, there were 52 Garhs, but by this time, there are only 47 (approx.). Or the battle for Uppu Garh, one of the last battles. So I think, after the fall of Katyuris, there may have been a brief period where the Malla Kings ruled this territory, but as such a sudden rise does not seem plausible during this time period (talking about Chands here), they did not rule for enough time to cause major effects.
 
As an Indian who played EU4 regularly, I have a few suggestions/requests
1. Please let the Hindu states to reclaim their predecessors' glory prior to The Delhi Sultanate conquering them. Since this is the beginning of Islam in India it's an extremely tumultuous time in the region with culture and religion. Please let Kashmiris reclaim Karkota dynasty, kannadigas the Rashtrakutas or Chalukyas, Bundelis/Awadhis reclaim Chandela territories,Tamils reclaim Cholas, Bengalis the Palas or the Senas, Gujarati/Rajasthani/Sindis reclaim Gurjaras. Upper Indus region with the Gandharas etc. Just a bit of research and you'll find most Indian cultures had larger dynasties that they still have a bit of reminiscence.
2. Kashi/Varanasi is essentially the spiritual capital of Hinduism and the Hoysala strife against the sultanate with regards to safe passage of pilgrims, dodging the jizya by giving an entire village's income is a wonderful and painful story and one of many, so I definitely believe atleast the medium to large Hindu states to have a claim on kashi.
3. Assuming monuments are still a thing, Delhi is in the making of destroying several Jain and Hindu temples to make the Qutub Minar, again kindly let Hindus rebuild monuments that give some boost to them a tiny example would be Martanda Sun Temple in Kashmir.
4. A few mistakes with names I noticed:
a. Karnakassala to Karu Nadu (just like Tamil Nadu)
b. Orissan to Odissi
c. The hilly region between upper Indus(Kashmir essentially) and Nepal should be Pahad not punjab.
d. Not sure about the placement of Assamese culture, it should be east of Bodo not West.
5. A couple of fun achievements would be the Char Dhams(conquering all four major pilgrimages for easy movement of devotees). Vij being perfectly set up for an Indian Ocean Mare Nostrum. The Coorgi/Kodava people being the martial clan Swiss mercenary type of people of South India. Etc etc
That's it for now from my end. Thank you I love guys at Paradox ❤❤❤❤
Damn that's some good stuff bruv esp the ideas for new achievements. I'll just add on to you (assuming we're both from the same region of South West Deccan ie Modern day Karnataka).

I think Sandalwood should be added to the raw materials map cus it was very sought after in this time period and even today actually and the highest quality of sandalwood and its oil comes from Karnataka and Andhra and western Australia.

And the in the climate map, I noticed both west India and Deccan India are arid. Deccan India is actually Semi arid not desert Arid like Rajasthan and the Thar desert. If there's no "semi-arid" label used I guess Arid should be fine but climate and environment wise those two regions are quite different.

And I hope monsoons play some role in the game since Indian Subcontinent's produce increases significantly in yield during those three to four months.
 
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Damn that's some good stuff bruv esp the ideas for new achievements. I'll just add on to you (assuming we're both from the same region of South West Deccan ie Modern day Karnataka).

I think Sandalwood should be added to the raw materials map cus it was very sought after in this time period and even today actually and the highest quality of sandalwood and its oil comes from Karnataka and Andhra and western Australia.

And the in the climate map, I noticed both west India and Deccan India are arid. Deccan India is actually Semi arid not desert Arid like Rajasthan and the Thar desert. If there's no "semi-arid" label used I guess Arid should be fine but climate and environment wise those two regions are quite different.

And I hope monsoons play some role in the game since Indian Subcontinent's produce increases significantly in yield during those three to four months.
As an Indian who played EU4 regularly, I have a few suggestions/requests
1. Please let the Hindu states to reclaim their predecessors' glory prior to The Delhi Sultanate conquering them. Since this is the beginning of Islam in India it's an extremely tumultuous time in the region with culture and religion. Please let Kashmiris reclaim Karkota dynasty, kannadigas the Rashtrakutas or Chalukyas, Bundelis/Awadhis reclaim Chandela territories,Tamils reclaim Cholas, Bengalis the Palas or the Senas, Gujarati/Rajasthani/Sindis reclaim Gurjaras. Upper Indus region with the Gandharas etc. Just a bit of research and you'll find most Indian cultures had larger dynasties that they still have a bit of reminiscence.
2. Kashi/Varanasi is essentially the spiritual capital of Hinduism and the Hoysala strife against the sultanate with regards to safe passage of pilgrims, dodging the jizya by giving an entire village's income is a wonderful and painful story and one of many, so I definitely believe atleast the medium to large Hindu states to have a claim on kashi.
3. Assuming monuments are still a thing, Delhi is in the making of destroying several Jain and Hindu temples to make the Qutub Minar, again kindly let Hindus rebuild monuments that give some boost to them a tiny example would be Martanda Sun Temple in Kashmir.
4. A few mistakes with names I noticed:
a. Karnakassala to Karu Nadu (just like Tamil Nadu)
b. Orissan to Odissi
c. The hilly region between upper Indus(Kashmir essentially) and Nepal should be Pahad not punjab.
d. Not sure about the placement of Assamese culture, it should be east of Bodo not West.
5. A couple of fun achievements would be the Char Dhams(conquering all four major pilgrimages for easy movement of devotees). Vij being perfectly set up for an Indian Ocean Mare Nostrum. The Coorgi/Kodava people being the martial clan Swiss mercernary type of people of South India. Etcetc
That's it for now from my end. Thank you I love guys at Paradox ❤❤❤❤
Since I loved your comment so much imma give more homework for Johan and Pavia lol

- **K.A. Nilakanta Sastri**, *The Cholas* (For Cholas).
- **T.V. Mahalingam**, *Rashtrakutas and Their Times* (For Rashtrakutas).
- **V.S. Pathak**, *The Karkota Dynasty* (For Kashmir and Karkotas).
- **B.P. Sahu**, *The Palas of Bengal*.
- **Diana L. Eck**, *Banaras: City of Light*.
- **K.A. Nilakanta Sastri**, *A History of South India* (For Hoysala struggles).
- **K.S. Shukla**, *Sacred Geography of Kashi*.
- **Sitaram Goel**, *Hindu Temples: What Happened to Them*.
- **Arun Shourie**, *The World of Fatwas or The Sharia in Action*.
- **Kishori Saran Lal**, *Indian Muslims: Who Are They*.
- **H.V. Sreenivasa Murthy**, *History of Karnataka* (For Karu Nadu).
- **G.C. Chauley**, *Heritage of Odisha* (For Odissi and Orissa).
- **Yashpal Benam**, *Pahadi Culture and Traditions* (For Pahad and Upper Indus region).
- **N.N. Acharyya**, *A History of Assam*.
- **Swami Prabhavananda**, *The Spiritual Heritage of India*.
- **David Kinsley**, *Hindu Goddesses: Visions of the Divine Feminine in the Hindu Religious Tradition*.
- **Radhakanta Barua**, *The Holy Places of India*.
- **K.A. Nilakanta Sastri**, *A History of South India*.
- **Robert Sewell**, *A Forgotten Empire (Vijayanagar)*.
- **N. Venkata Ramanayya**, *Studies in the History of the Third Dynasty of Vijayanagara*.
- **B.D. Ganapathy**, *Kodavas (Coorgs), Their Customs and Culture*.
- **M.G. Cariappa**, *The Coorgs and Their Traditions*.
- **Meenakshi Jain**, *Flight of Deities and Rebirth of Temples*.
 
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It seems to me that we do agree on most of the points, just differ on how should they be implemented in the game!

1. Yes, that is why I was excluding the western region as it has similar geography and similar culture too, and it is represented so in the game too. My point is contention are the areas further than that.
2. Yes, I am talking about that. As far as I am aware, it is only widely practiced until Doti and not further than that. If it is, please enlighten me.
3. Yes, it is already a hotly debated topic as to what constitutes a language and dialect. Let's take mutual intelligibilty as the primary factor in our case. Then, as you would notice the language used in Devalgarh inscription, the inscription in Kumaon and those in Khasa region are definitely not mutually intelligible. A case can be made that a Kumaoni speaker may understand a little bit of the Garhwal one and a little bit of the Khasa one, but these two would definitely not understand each other. Therefore, I make the case that by this point these languages have diverged enough.
4. As you said, due to the lack of historical sources, ascertaining any thing of this sort does not seem possible.
5. It is possible as you said, but the tales that we know of the battles of unification do not mention anything of this sort. For example, in the first battle Ajay Pal fights, against the Kumaonis for Badhan, the Kumaonis stand united under the Chands while Garhwal is still fragmented. One difference is that, we know that when Kanak Pal ascended the throne of Chandpur Garh, there were 52 Garhs, but by this time, there are only 47 (approx.). Or the battle for Uppu Garh, one of the last battles. So I think, after the fall of Katyuris, there may have been a brief period where the Malla Kings ruled this territory, but as such a sudden rise does not seem plausible during this time period (talking about Chands here), they did not rule for enough time to cause major effects.
1. Cultural Representation in the Game:
In the game, only Doti Raika is represented as having the same culture (Kumaoni), while Khas Rajya is shown as a separate culture (Khas), which is inaccurate. Doti, like Kumaon and Garhwal, was historically part of the Khas cultural sphere. Everything west of the Kathmandu Valley should be recognized as predominantly Khas, with minor ethnic groups like Magars,bhotiya, Gurungs, Tamangs and other minorities from kumaon and gharwal. There is no need to differentiate between Garhwali and Kumaoni as separate cultures, as both are encompassed within the larger Khas cultural framework. I say this because there is khasa instead of Nepali.But since Khas culture is present, there is no need for separate identities for Kumaon and Garhwal. But if you want to split khasas it doesnot make sense to split them into kumaon gharwali and khasa. Maybe kumaon gharwali ,doteli or stg else. Not that it makes any sense though.

2. Broader Practice of Traditions Across Nepal:
As I previously mentioned, the tradition you’re referring to is not confined solely to western Nepal but is practiced throughout Nepal by people of Khas origin. The influence of Khas rulers spread Khas culture widely across Nepal, making it dominant among the Pahadi-speaking population (about 18 million people of Khas heritage). Although modernization and nation-building efforts (such as Jung Bahadur's relabeling of Khas jāt as Chhetri in the 19th century) have diluted these practices, they still exist today. The homogenization of Khas identity over the region supports the idea that Kumaon and Garhwal should be seen as part of the Khas culture.

3. Language Divergence and Inscriptions:
I haven’t had the opportunity to review the 1335 "Garhwali" inscription in detail, so if you could share it, I’d be happy to compare it with Khasa inscriptions. Even though Garhwali and Kumaoni dialects may exhibit some differences, they both derive from the Khas linguistic and cultural base. The divergence is not substantial enough to justify separating them culturally. The mutual intelligibility between Kumaoni and Garhwali underscores this, as both languages evolved from the Khas heritage.

4. Lack of Historical Evidence for Certain Cultural Assertions:
Without sufficient historical evidence, any assertion regarding specific cultural practices, such as Phool Dei, remains speculative. As Paradox itself emphasizes the need for historical records to make claims, without concrete evidence, we cannot definitively separate Garhwali or Kumaoni as distinct from Khas culture. The lack of historical documentation strengthens the argument for considering them under the Khas umbrella.

5. Khas Rule and the Chands' Rise to Power:
The Chand dynasty was a unified entity, but my point was to emphasize the feudal hierarchy in the region: Khasas > Chands > local chieftains in Kumaon versus Khasas > local chieftains in Garhwal. Historical sources, including inscriptions, show that the Khas ruled over regions like Kartikeypura, with Krachalla Deva sending his son as governor of Jalandhar Pradesh (Kumaon-Garhwal). These inscriptions, along with references from historians who describe both Garhwal and Kumaon as part of Khasadesa prior to Ajay Pal, reinforce the idea of Khas control over the entire region.

Edit:typos
 
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I suddenly realized something. The color of Khwarezmian people in your Persian diary is the same as the basic color of Tarim. They are both the same! And the grey is Uyghur? You will not let the national color of Tarim be Khwarezmian?
 
What is "Afghan" culture supposed to be? There should only be Tajiks, Hazaras, Pashtuns, Uzbeks, etc.
Afghan is just another name for Pashtun back then
 
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1. Please let the Hindu states to reclaim their predecessors' glory prior to The Delhi Sultanate conquering them. Since this is the beginning of Islam in India it's an extremely tumultuous time in the region with culture and religion. Please let Kashmiris reclaim Karkota dynasty, kannadigas the Rashtrakutas or Chalukyas, Bundelis/Awadhis reclaim Chandela territories,Tamils reclaim Cholas, Bengalis the Palas or the Senas, Gujarati/Rajasthani/Sindis reclaim Gurjaras. Upper Indus region with the Gandharas etc. Just a bit of research and you'll find most Indian cultures had larger dynasties that they still have a bit of reminiscence.

Perhaps you should be able to get claims on old territories owned by old dynasties of the culture via the Hindu states’ various mission trees. I don’t think you should be able to reform the Cholas or Palas or anything like that though if that’s what you’re implying though.
 
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I see the northern india particularly the Himalayas has not been discussed so i will try to describe about it particularly khas -malla kingdom or khas empire(_sinjali empire) which dominated the himlayas .

Khas Empire



The founder Nagaraja had established his authority over khari state (part of southern tibet guge) and the javeshwor region (eastern Nepal particulary the karnali region ) .After Nagaraj Javeshwor ,his descendent krachalla expands over kumaon in the east ,trishuli in the west and the ganges in the south. As per the stone inscription of baleshwor temple in 1223AD, Krachalla deva had ten Counceller's and feudatories among the recently conquered chand kings of kumaon.He sends his son Ashokchalla to kumaon-gadhwal area(Jalandhar state) to govern the region. After 1256AD ashokchalla becomes king and expands his kingdom east till ladakh.As per the stone inscription in gadwal in 1278AD ,he was called the king of 1,25,000 hills. After attacking and winning against the malla kingdom (Nepal mandal),they change their surname to malla (due to unknown reasons).In 1303 large immigration from Rajput flows into the khas kingdom. Aditya Malla attacks Nepal mandal (bhaktapur in 1321 and again on nuwakot and pharping ).In 1312 the Khas king, Ripumalla, visited Lumbini and had his own inscription carved on Ashoka's pillar. He then entered the Kathmandu Valley to worship publicly at Matsyendranath, Pashupatinath, and Swayambhunath.This can be speculated as the overlordship of khasas overlordship in Nepal.Thus it can be seen as khasas border to be expanded till the arun river. In 1328AD punya pal(husband of the princess Sakunmala) becomes the king adopting surname Malla.In 1333AD he attacks Nepal Mandal and collects taxes and ruled for 6 months and visits the hindu temples there.

The accession of punya pal causes dissatisfaction among the other royals and vassals since he was a son-in-law .This marks a trigger for the disintegration of the kingdom.

Post 1337
Prithvi Malla (1338-the youngest son is the heir apparent due to his brothers death. He is the last king of the peak khas kingdom. During his rain he looses control over khari state in tibet and Doti .Nirya Pal declares independence and styles as king of doti in 1352.This causes instability and rebellious thoughts among the feudatories Surya Malla,son of ripu malla becomes the new king in 1358 .Abhaya malla ,the crown prince reconquers the doti kingdom in 1352.In 1377 Abhaya malla becomes king .He looses his control due to great influence from bom/Burma ministers .The central authority weakened and the khas kingdom disintegrated

FIGURE BELOW SHOWS PEAK KHAS EMPIRE IN light red ,the mallas in purple ,mustang in orange ,kiratis in mustard,tirhut in red .
1727198799941.png
References:
Paschim Nepal Ko Khas Adhirajya
The Khaśa kingdom: a trans-Himalayan empire of the middle age - Surya Mani Adhikary
Brihat Jumla Rajyako Aitihasik Vivechana - Rajeshwor Devkota
The Khasas an early Indian tribe - Laxman S Thakur
The Himalaya As Frontier - Ram Rahul
Historical sources, including inscriptions, show that the Khas ruled over regions like Kartikeypura, with Krachalla Deva sending his son as governor of Jalandhar Pradesh (Kumaon-Garhwal). These inscriptions, along with references from historians who describe both Garhwal and Kumaon as part of Khasadesa prior to Ajay Pal, reinforce the idea of Khas control over the entire region.

One thing i would like to add is Doti was 100% under khas control .Khas rulers were in their prime during 1337.Even the chands were there feudatory and the khasiya gharpati of "Gharwal" were also under their control .Another thing is that krachalla also expanded his kingdom in the southern Gangetic plains.

I will wrote about Mallas of Kathmandu Valley in my next post.
 
This is an initial draft of the Garhs of Garhwal in 1337. There may be some mistakes in it. Particularly Dasholi Garh is probably a little more to the north. I will post a detailed map, with different map modes later. This one is just for the countries that existed at this point.

52garhs.png


Credits to @Bishweshwar for the base layer, though there have been some* changes made!

Edit:
Updated map!
4k.png
 
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As far as I know the "thomas Christians " in the south, the Syro-Malabar church claims unbroken communion with Rome so it's probably a bit dishonest to portray them as nestorians when they weren't. Even though the weren't in contact at the time, they never acually broke Communion, and returned offiacally when contact was established again is (I think) the 1500:s. So the should either be prtrayed as catholics or have a enent changing most of them to catholics upon contach with a catholic country.
At least with a basic reading of the associated Wikipedia article, I'd say that the history is... much more complicated than that. They were nominally under the Church of the East, but were mostly doing their own thing. The Portuguese didn't really "convert" so much as they asserted authority over their local churches (having to outmaneuver the Patriarch of the East to do so), which then led to a bunch of local schisms in itself due to the building of much resentment with how the Portuguese handled the matter.

As to how to represent that, it's... complicated. I imagine the way that the game will handle it is just "Portugal converting Nestorians to Catholicism", but I have some ideas for representing the more complicated structure of "who gets jurisdiction".
 
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I don't think India should have places that are overpopulated at the start. Make the lands all fit the current population of the place, and have a bit of room to grow. But over time, the population of india did grow by 10s of millions until 1600 which it had 129 million. To reach these numbers you should have to invest in the buildings and economy of the region. But I don't think the population of India should start out overpopulated and result in stagnation.
 
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I don't think India should have places that are overpopulated at the start. Make the lands all fit the current population of the place, and have a bit of room to grow. But over time, the population of india did grow by 10s of millions until 1600 which it had 129 million. To reach these numbers you should have to invest in the buildings and economy of the region. But I don't think the population of India should start out overpopulated and result in stagnation.
I'm not sure exactly how it works, but if I was designing the game, "overpopulated" wouldn't necessarily mean "people are dying in droves", but rather "the GDP per capita of this region is lower than what it would be with fewer people". Of course, we don't really know exactly how it works.
 
We know it limits pop growth and migration and... that's about it. We don't know how much populations can still go above the capacity depending on food abundance and whatnot, or whether the pop growth inhibition dips into the negative (i.e. pops start to die).
 
Both @Thorum and @Bishweshwar expressed a wish for it in the province density thread so here are these Tinto maps overlayed with major rivers and with India's modern top-level administrative borders. The georeference is accurate enough for purpose but not good enough to be a pixel pedant, and the rivers are following the modern courses.

rivers: View attachment india rivers2.png
borders: View attachment india borders.png
 
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