• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Maps #20 - 27th of September 2024 - The Steppes

Hello, and welcome one more week to the weekly encounter for map lovers! This week it’s also directed at horse lovers because we will be looking at the Eurasian Steppes, plus the Urals! So let’s start with the maps without further ado.

Countries:
Countries.jpg

Colored Wastelands.jpg

A glorious, Golden Horde! It is at its power peak, under the reign of Uzbeg Khan, so it's a much more menacing presence for its neighbors. However, it has its some internal issues that need to be managed, as you’ll notice in some of the maps, and in the future when we talk about the content for Hordes. The Golden Horde also heads its own IO, the Tatar Yoke, as shown in a previous Tinto Maps:

Tatar Yoke.jpg

We have already corrected the Ruthenian countries that are under the Horde’s Yoke, although we still have to correct the Russian principalities, which will be done in the corresponding Tinto Maps review. We’re also aware that we need to improve a bit the coloring of the IO, to mark not only the Golden Horde as the overlord of these countries, but also that Muscovy holds the title of the Grand Principality of Vladimir, which makes it the ‘enforcer’ of the Yoke. These fixes are also planned to be done in a few weeks.

Societies of Pops:
Societies of Pops.jpg

Societies of Pops 2.jpg .jpg

A bit up to the north, we have some Societies of Pops! This means that the territory of Western Siberia won’t be empty land, but will be populated by these people, which can be interacted with.

BTW, I’m not showing this week a dynasty map because, well, only the Borgijin dynasty rules over the lands of the Golden Horde, of course!


Locations:
Locations.jpg

Locations Western Siberia.jpg

Locations 3.jpg

Locations 4.jpg

Locations 5.jpg

Tons of locations today… You might notice that the density location is in a progression from west to east, from the most densely settled areas to the less settled ones. You may also notice that we’ve followed a design of ‘settler corridors’ in Western Siberia, setting those parts of the land that were habitable, usually on river valleys.

Provinces:
Provinces.jpg

Provinces 2.jpg


Areas:
Areas.jpg


Terrain:
Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

The terrain is interesting here, as there are two main ecological areas. The first is the Steppes, Flatlands with Sparse and Grasslands vegetation, with either Cold Arid or Continental climates. And then we have the Siberian Arctics Forests, which are completely different, of course. On a note, the Urals were set as Hills, as they’re a quite settleable area, but we’ll probably make a review with your feedback, and add some mountains there.

Development:
Development.jpg

The whole region is not very developed, you might notice the difference with India, from last week’s Tinto Maps.

Harbors:
Harbors.jpg

There are some harbors in the Steppe region… In the Black Sea and Caspian Sea, of course! As usual, we’re open to feedback on this matter.

Cultures:
Cultures.jpg

Plenty of cultures! One note: Although we planned to work on the religious and cultural minorities of the region during the summer, we ended up not having enough time to add them. So what we’ll be doing today is showing the rough outline of ‘cultural spheres’, and then we’ll add the minorities during the review of the region. In that sense, feedback is very well received.

With that said the only note that needs to be made in terms of the cultural design is that we divided the Tatar cultural group into some differentiated regional cultures, being Crimean, Mishary, Kazani, and Astrakhani. We’re also aware that some of the cultures, as Mari and Chuvash, might be a bit displaced, as noted in the Russian Tinto Maps, so we’ll review and correct that with your feedback.


Religions:
Religions.jpg

Regarding Religions, the matter is a bit worse, as the big Sunni blob is just because the main religion of the Golden Horde is Islam, after the conversion of Uzbeg Khan, but that’s obviously incorrect. Also, as we have been able to forecast development time on how Pagan divisions will be during this autumn, we will make a comprehensive review of the region as well, to get a good distribution of ‘Shamanist’ Paganism, Tengrism, and Sunni Islam.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.jpg

Raw Materials 2.jpg

Raw Materials 3.jpg

Regarding the raw materials, the Steppes have plenty of Livestock and Horses, quite logically, although there are regions with some other goods. And up to the north, the main materials are Lumber and Fur. Apart from that, I want to mention the mineral hub in the Ural Mountains, with plenty of Copper, Iron, Gold, Lead, and Coal. That makes it a very mid and late-game interesting spot, and playing as Muscovy/Russia, I’ll tell you that you definitely want to expand into that region, as it will fulfill some of your material needs by that time.

Markets:
Markets.jpg

Markets! Big region, with lots of markets, although you may noticed that we changed the coloring of the locations that have 0% market access, which is the case in several areas. In any case, the market centers are Kaffa, Astrakhan, Saray-Jük, Kunya Urgench, Samarkand, Almaty, and Chimgi Tura. BTW, these names are much easier to notice in the game’s UI, as they’re beside the market centers:

Markets 2.jpg


Population:
Population.jpg

This week we’re showing only the country population mapmode, as there are some location numbers here and there which are failing, due to the already known issue with our pop editor (and which are on the way to be fixed). In any case, the whole population of the region is around 6.5-7M, of which around 6.3M are part of the Golden Horde. As I said, it’s a menacing country…

And that’s all for today! This is going to be my last Tinto Maps in a while, as I’ll be on vacation for 3 weeks during October (you might have noticed that I didn’t have any during summer), so one of the Content Designers in the team, @Roger Corominas , will step in and be in charge of the next 4 Tinto Maps. It’s in good hands, as Roger is an Experienced CD, who has been working and focused on Project Caesar for more than 3 years, at this point (this is why you might not know him from EU4, as other CDs in our team). In any case, he will be starting with the regions of Xinjiang, mostly ruled by the Chagatai Khanate, and Tibet.

I’ll keep reading and answering you during next week, and then I’ll be back in a month from now. See you!
 
  • 145Like
  • 48Love
  • 4
  • 3
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
Can we see a zoomed in location map of from Moldova to Astrakhan and Sevastopol to Moscow(basically just the West of the map we see). Thanks also I think for the gradient/heat maps the stained class doesn’t really work and on a couple maps especially the location map mode it’s very difficult to see the change between land and sea.
 
  • 4Like
Reactions:
Finally the last bit of Europe has been revealed .

I have to say I am very happy with the changes that were made to the borders of Genoa in Crimea from those wonky blobed ugly borders to these more elegant and more historically accurate ones.

(For comparison)
Before
sketch-1727448805383.png

After
sketch-1727448851480.png


You can clearly see how smoothly the Genoese coast is, it doesn't protrude inwards as Genoa didn't really care to control much inwards only the surrounding areas, I think this is a very GOOD change and I hope we can see it more in the future regarding coastal locations that were historically used as ports.

However I also noticed some inconsistencies regarding some coastal ports.
(My proposed changes)
sketch-1727449405763.png


Firstly Genoa controlled a bit more coastal areas than what is shown in the dev diary, Tana for example was an important port for trade with the horde
IMG_20240927_174232.jpg


Cetatea alba was also a colony of Genoa in 1337, before eventually becoming part of Moldavia during the end of the 14th century, (I would also strongly recommend to make the borders of Cetatea alba more "coastal" as the Genoese didn't control much beyond the town itself thus the striped lines in my map above highlighting the new border change for the location).
IMG_20240927_174145.jpg


Taman (Hermonassa in Greek, Matracha to the Genoese) was passed to Trebizondian control after the turbulent times of the 4th crusade which plunged the wider region into chaos. The port would fall into Genoa's influence in the later half of the 14th century from a weakening Trebizond, (Taman interestingly is not the name of the port today but rather the peninsula, today's name is Tmutarakan) thus "Taman" should be part of Trebizond at the start of 1337
IMG_20240927_174250.jpg


And lastly Copa...
this is a very weird one as I have not once seen on a map nor read in a text that a Genoese colony existed in this location, and it's not surprising as the region even to this day doesn't have a port, rendering it useless for a maritime Empire to control this location, as well suited ports exist both to the north of it (Tanna) and south (Hermonassa), I also searched for a port with the name Copa and found nothing, so unless I have missed something obvious the "Copa" location should be part of the Golden horde.

Today's coastal region that represents the Copa location (notice the absence of any port or at the very least a coastal town)
IMG_20240927_184310.jpg


Below is a useful map that helps visualize the Genoese colonies and it's influence in the Mediterranean and the black seas (notice again that there is neither a port nor influence of any kind from Genoa as there was nothing to influence there to begin with)
1280px-Repubblica_di_Genova.png

This is it for this dev diary, as usual If anyone has noticed a mistake of some kind do let me know.
 

Attachments

  • 1280px-Repubblica_di_Genova.png
    1280px-Repubblica_di_Genova.png
    511,4 KB · Views: 0
  • Screenshot_2024-09-27-18-32-07-125_com.android.chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_2024-09-27-18-32-07-125_com.android.chrome.jpg
    546,7 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
  • 18Like
  • 10
  • 4
Reactions:
Hey as someone who devoted a significant part of my life playing EU4 I'd like just to appreaciate how great locations & terrain/development mapmodes look!. Don't simplify mapmodes! make them interesting to look at.
 
  • 4
  • 3Like
Reactions:
Not an expert on this region but shouldn't the major cities of the Golden Horde have pretty high development? Old Sarai had a population around twice that of Moscow in this era
 
  • 8Like
Reactions:
Very good. Thanks for the map breakdown.
 
Finally the last bit of Europe has been shown.

I have to say I am very happy with the changes that were made to the borders of Genoa in Crimea from those wonky blobed ugly borders to these more elegant and more historically accurate ones.

(For comparison)
Before
View attachment 1194213
After
View attachment 1194215

You can clearly see how smoothly the Genoese coast is, it doesn't protrude inwards as Genoa didn't really care to control much inwards only the surrounding areas, I think this is a very GOOD change and I hope we can see it more in the future regarding coastal locations that were historically used as ports.

However I also noticed some inconsistencies regarding some coastal ports.
(My proposed changes)
View attachment 1194223

Firstly Genoa controlled a bit more coastal areas than what is shown in the dev diary, Tana for example was an important port for trade with the horde
View attachment 1194224

Cetatea alba was also a colony of Genoa in 1337, before eventually becoming part of Moldavia during the end of the 14th century, (I would also strongly recommend to make the borders of Cetatea alba more "coastal" as the Genoese didn't control much beyond the town itself thus the striped lines in my map above highlighting the new border change for the location).
View attachment 1194247

Taman (Hermonassa in Greek, Matracha to the Genoese) was passed to Trebizondian control after the turbulent times of the 4th crusade which plunged the wider region into chaos. The port would fall into Genoa's influence in the later half of the 14th century from a weakening Trebizond, (Taman interestingly is not the name of the port today but rather the peninsula, today's name is Tmutarakan) thus "Taman" should be part of Trebizond at the start of 1337
View attachment 1194232

And lastly Copa...
this is a very weird one as I have not once seen on a map nor read in a text that a Genoese colony existed in this location, and it's not surprising as the region even to this day doesn't have a port, rendering it useless for a maritime Empire to control this location, as well suited ports exist both to the north of it (Tanna) and south (Hermonassa), I also searched for a port with the name Copa and found nothing, so unless I have missed something obvious the "Copa" location should be part of the Golden horde.

Today's coastal region that represents the Copa location (notice the absence of any port or at the very least a coastal town)
View attachment 1194252

Below is a useful map that helps visualize the Genoese colonies and it's influence in the Mediterranean and the black seas (notice again that there is neither a port nor influence of any kind from Genoa as there was nothing to influence there to begin with)
View attachment 1194255
This is it for this dev diary, as usual If anyone has noticed a mistake of some kind do let me know.
Great post! But I disagree with Copa, Copa is modern day Slavyansk-on-Kuban, not a coastal town but definitely owned by Genoa by this point.
 
  • 5Like
Reactions:
I know there have been people who argued in favor of classifying provinces as mountains or hills not based on height but rather based on how difficult it is to cross the area. There is no better example of why they are at least partially right than the Urals.
 
  • 4
Reactions:
The Siberian rivers freeze over in winter in their northern reaches and become important roads for wheeled vehicles, more accessible than the countryside, being flat and continuous and sturdy - is there any possibility of this being represented somehow?
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Great post! But I disagree with Copa, Copa is modern day Slavyansk-on-Kuban, not a coastal town but definitely owned by Genoa by this point.
Huh you are right Genoa did control Slavyansk on Kuban (thanks for telling me that Copa was Slavyansk) I had no idea Genoa had set up a trading post this far inland, thanks for the clarification! (Althought it could be argued that the Genoese didn't really control the coastal region of the location apart from the trading post, and in another note I don't know if trading posts alone should count as being part of Genoa, maybe they need a more thoughrough hold on a location like a keep or a port)
 
  • 8Like
Reactions:
Since mountain terrain has the function of becoming impassable in winter, shouldn't then the Urals become mountains? I don't think it was a particularly passable mountain range in winter conditions.

Also I noticed a modern location name slip in. Engels should likely have a different patron in 1337.
 
  • 10Like
  • 5Haha
Reactions:
Finally the last bit of Europe has been shown.

I have to say I am very happy with the changes that were made to the borders of Genoa in Crimea from those wonky blobed ugly borders to these more elegant and more historically accurate ones.

(For comparison)
Before
View attachment 1194213
After
View attachment 1194215

You can clearly see how smoothly the Genoese coast is, it doesn't protrude inwards as Genoa didn't really care to control much inwards only the surrounding areas, I think this is a very GOOD change and I hope we can see it more in the future regarding coastal locations that were historically used as ports.

However I also noticed some inconsistencies regarding some coastal ports.
(My proposed changes)
View attachment 1194223

Firstly Genoa controlled a bit more coastal areas than what is shown in the dev diary, Tana for example was an important port for trade with the horde
View attachment 1194224

Cetatea alba was also a colony of Genoa in 1337, before eventually becoming part of Moldavia during the end of the 14th century, (I would also strongly recommend to make the borders of Cetatea alba more "coastal" as the Genoese didn't control much beyond the town itself thus the striped lines in my map above highlighting the new border change for the location).
View attachment 1194247

Taman (Hermonassa in Greek, Matracha to the Genoese) was passed to Trebizondian control after the turbulent times of the 4th crusade which plunged the wider region into chaos. The port would fall into Genoa's influence in the later half of the 14th century from a weakening Trebizond, (Taman interestingly is not the name of the port today but rather the peninsula, today's name is Tmutarakan) thus "Taman" should be part of Trebizond at the start of 1337
View attachment 1194232

And lastly Copa...
this is a very weird one as I have not once seen on a map nor read in a text that a Genoese colony existed in this location, and it's not surprising as the region even to this day doesn't have a port, rendering it useless for a maritime Empire to control this location, as well suited ports exist both to the north of it (Tanna) and south (Hermonassa), I also searched for a port with the name Copa and found nothing, so unless I have missed something obvious the "Copa" location should be part of the Golden horde.

Today's coastal region that represents the Copa location (notice the absence of any port or at the very least a coastal town)
View attachment 1194252

Below is a useful map that helps visualize the Genoese colonies and it's influence in the Mediterranean and the black seas (notice again that there is neither a port nor influence of any kind from Genoa as there was nothing to influence there to begin with)
View attachment 1194255
This is it for this dev diary, as usual If anyone has noticed a mistake of some kind do let me know.
Good to see that I'm not the only one that has done a research on the matter!
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: