Tinto Maps #28 - 29th of November 2024 - North America

[YashaCarry]

In the most recent map published for the dev diary, we can see that the Haudenosaunee’s 5 nations have been properly added to the map as Settled Countries! This is wonderful news, cannot wait to play Onondaga!

 

[cboswell89]

View attachment 1259153
In the most recent map published for the dev diary, we can see that the Haudenosaunee’s 5 nations have been properly added to the map as Settled Countries! This is wonderful news, cannot wait to play Onondaga!

Nice. I'd love to see a few more small tags added in the southeast, like Muscogee/ Etowah who were clearly settled people during this period, but I can understand it's a tough call when the attestations are not good.

 

[YashaCarry]

Nice. I'd love to see a few more small tags added in the southeast, like Muscogee/ Etowah who were clearly settled people during this period, but I can understand it's a tough call when the attestations are not good.

We sadly don't get a clear view on the lands of the Mississippians yet, and with the remainder of the Northeast, there's still a few missing, but it is a hard call indeed. I am hoping that we can get a few others, such as the Laurentian city-states, the Abenaki and Mi'kmaq divisions, the Huron members, the Neutral Confederacy members, and maybe the members of the Council of Three Fires.

 

[Tahami Tsunami]

Fantastic news for the Haudenosaunee nations! I'm also hoping that Hochelaga can get the same treatment.

 

[YashaCarry]

Unrelated, but I decided to do some more Plaquemine posting, so I plotted out roughly where all of the Plaquemine sites are found, or at least, the ones we know of underneath the current province setup.

So... what did I do from there?

Well, I distributed provinces in the area to Plaquemine-cultured tags!

A lot of less important tags were given just one location, but the more important ones were given two, fair warning a lot of sites overlapped so I did my best to showcase as much as I could.

In order of color, the tags are.

Yellow, Atchafalaya (the only Plaquemine site on the coastline, and the only one that wouldn't conflict with the Chitimacha, since we're still on the fence if they're apart of the Plaquemine culture group)
Orange, Medora (the type site! this should be the most important Plaquemine city state)
Pink, Natchez (not super important yet, but they'd grow to be more important in the future)
Green, Emerald Mound (very important polity)
Lavender, Holly Bluff (very important polity)
Light Blue, Winterville (very important polity)
Creme, Jordan (a type site polity that would become more important following the Plaquemine period like Natchez would)
Purple, Ghost Mound (another type site polity that would become more important following the Plaquemine period).
Cyan, Glass Mound (important polity, but not as important as the others)

Hypothetically speaking the tags could form a Mississippian tag of somekind, maybe called Plaquemine?

Anyways, Plaquemine posting over!

 

[AntarcticRanger]

It occurs to me that the Bering sea should probably be inland sea, in order to allow it to freeze in the winter.

 

[Bauer Maggott]

It occurs to me that the Bering sea should probably be inland sea, in order to allow it to freeze in the winter.

i am not sure i fully understood the freezing mechanic but wouldnt that mean that an army could just walk from asia to north america ?

 

[AntarcticRanger]

i am not sure i fully understood the freezing mechanic but wouldnt that mean that an army could just walk from asia to north america ?

Yes, with this you could walk from far eastern Siberia to Alaska.
Right now as we speak, the Bering straight is frozen.

 

[Bauer Maggott]

Yes, with this you could walk from far eastern Siberia to Alaska.
Right now as we speak, the Bering straight is frozen.

This might be a more general criticism of the frozen sea mechanic but i dont think having armies be able to march from Asia to North America makes much sense.
I am not even aware that people do it today as a form of extreme sport.

 

[AntarcticRanger]

This might be a more general criticism of the frozen sea mechanic but i dont think having armies be able to march from Asia to North America makes much sense.
I am not even aware that people do it today as a form of extreme sport.

It is very rare but people have done that. Although by "people" I mean like a dozen people total.
It should not be possible to use boats in the winter though

 

[cboswell89]

This might be a more general criticism of the frozen sea mechanic but i dont think having armies be able to march from Asia to North America makes much sense.
I am not even aware that people do it today as a form of extreme sport.

I think it's fine as long as attrition is appropriately high - like as bad as marching through desert corridors or worse. Attrition x distance could make it functionally impossible in areas like the Bering Strait, but viable over smaller frozen inland seas.

 

[Tahami Tsunami]

Here's my attempt at more locations in the Tlingit lands. I adjusted the Kwaans/Provinces a bit for these locations though not to the point where the Area (Lingít Aaní) or the Tlingit SoP would change much. The PDFs I've attached greatly helped with location names so feel free to check them out!

Note: In the Deisleen and Aa Tlein Kwaans, I drew the borders of the lakes Teslin Lake, Atlin Lake, and Gladys Lake.

Without further ado, here is how I'd show the Tlingit Clans as Extraterritorial Building-Based Countries on the map.

As always, I'm up for any recommended changes and will do my best to answer questions. I hope this looks like a good idea to all of you!

 

[Gouda_boy]

Made Some name changes to a few locations, also added more density in the Hopi lands, and also went over into the Northeast covering more of Wyoming, Montana, and entering into South Dakota

How I think the Cultures should be split and arranged. First off, I simply do not agree with the subdivisions of cultures like the Yokuts or the Shoshone, so these have been united, as the different bands and tribes would NOT have been culturally distinct to be their own group. Likewise, the Yuman peoples of the Hualapai, Havasupai, Yavapai, etc. Have been grouped due to their shared and very similar cultural backgrounds, though I am completely fine with them still being separate. The same is said for the Puebloans. I've placed the Navajo entering into the Colorado Plateau as it is suggested they entered the region by this point, ultimately establishing themselves in their contemporary lands by 1500. Ive also moved all apache (visible or not) further south, as their migrations are believed to have been completed around this time as well, though no later than 1500. Lastly, I added in Apishapa culture, which existed until 1450. as well as the Itskari and Upper Republican cultures which have evidence of lasting up to the 1500s, and should have been part of the game in the first place. I do believe, especially in the Americas, that the merging, assimilating, collapse, or even divergence of certain cultures should be crucial, rather than being gamey and having non-existent cultures around at the start. Prime example are the Comanche, which were not distinct from the Shoshone until the arrival of the horse. Likewise MANY migrations, such as the Cheyenne, Arapaho, or Crow, only occurred with the arrival of the horse, and more eastern tribes being pushed west from colonization

 

[Sir_Cattus]

Other people have already mentioned the topography in the Pacific Northwest, but I'd like to point out some climate issues. There shouldn't be any continental areas west of the line; the coast is all oceanic (Csb in Oregon/Washington, Cfb in British Columbia/the Olympic Peninsula).

Spoiler: Map of Oceanic Areas

The boundary between the cold arid and continental region in the Columbia plateau looks good. The snake river plain (the flatland region in Southern Idaho) should be cold arid. Additionally, the eastern half of the Cascades should have a continental climate. I tried to draw the boundary of the Blue Mountains' continental climate, but it doesn't look great. I marked continental areas with a D and cold arid areas with a B.

Spoiler: Map of Continental and Cold Arid Areas

The current vegetation is off, but should mostly follow the boundaries between climates, so it can use the same map. The continental and oceanic regions should be forest. The cold arid region in the columbia plateau and along the snake river plain is mostly sagebrush steppe, and should be sparse vegetation, not a forest. I'm not sure where to draw the boundary, between sparse and desert vegetation, but there shouldn't be true desert north of the Great Basin.

Spoiler: Sagebrush Steppe in Idaho

It looks like the religions in the northwest are mostly based off of language. I agree with the others who said that the Dene Totemist religion should be merged with Salishan Totemism, but I want to add that the Kuksu Shamanist groups outside of California should also follow Salishan Totemism. The groups in the Pacific Northwest (the Northwest Coast and Plateau regions in the linked map) shared many cultural and spiritual practices/beliefs and should have the same religion.

https://maps.lib.utexas.edu/maps/national_atlas_1970/ca000097_large.jpg

 

[AntarcticRanger]

The continental and oceanic regions should be forest.

What do you think of making all the Oceanic forest jungle, as that area is a temperate rainforest?

 

[korandder]

While the whole area is classified as rain forest, the amount of precipitation does vary considerably due to rain shadows. For example the east coast of Vancouver Island, parts of which have a cool summer Mediterranean climate (Csb), are much drier than the west coast of the Island. Communities on the eastern side of the Island like Courtenay and Nanaimo get less than 1200 mm of precipitation a year with parts of Victoria at the southern tip of the Island get less than 700 mm while towns on the western side like Tofino get over 3000 mm of precipitation. In my suggestion for Vancouver Island and Haida Gwaii, I suggested forest for the drier areas and jungle for the wetter regions.

Drier climates and sparser vegetation should extend further north into parts of the British Columbia Interior. For example, Kamloops has a cold semi-arid climate (Bsk) with less than 280 mm of precipitation a year.

 

[Tahami Tsunami]

I'm ready to show more of my desired changes for Project Caesar's North America map and tags, this time for most of the Midwest!

I'm not expecting every single location here to make it in-game, but I feel like it's preferable to offer too many suggestions than too few. Plus it was an interesting journey to find locations, discover names that seem to be Native American but are actually named by fictional characters, an amalgamation of 2 or more county names, etc. I also believe that Ojibwe named locations have Welsh names beat in terms of length! Of the locations that aren't owned by a tag, I would like to point out that Okeeg is the location (right above Koshkonong and west of Milwaukee, the native name of the Crawfish River) where Aztalan was located and Xeniaja (a location in Ȟemníčhaŋ on the Wisconsin side of the Mississippi River) is the location of Trempealeau. They were both locations of earlier Cahokian colonies. I put a good number of locations in Minnesota and Illinois due to the plenty names I found for Dakota and Illinois villages. As usual, let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.

Now here are the settled tags that I feel should be added to the Midwest! Compared to the speculative America map, I've refined the number and sizes of the tags.

Cahokia

Cahokia being larger does seem weird considering the...rough state that it's in with its social strife. However, like I said here earlier in the thread, it isn't without cause. The sites near Kansas City appear to have lasted up to 1400 (about the time Cahokia's abandonment) and the sites along the Illinois River showed increased levels of violence likely committed by Oneota peoples who recently arrived in the area around 1300. There is evidence of villages being burned in the area since the 1200s (which consequently led to remaining villages building palisade for security), but the 1300s had an increase of the violence with hundreds of scalpings, decapitations, arrow wounds, etc. It could make for an interesting bit of flavor for Cahokia at the start date. An alternate name by the oral tradition of the Ponca is P'ahe Zide (red hill) which may hint to how the mounds were covered in layers of colored clay.

Ȟemníčhaŋ

Undoubtedly influenced by Cahokia as evidenced by ceramics, platform mounds, and a nearby Cahokian colony, Ȟemníčhaŋ in modern Red Wing was the most densely populated area of the Upper Mississippi Valley. By 1337, they occupied the La Crosse area and seem to have started a relatively unique tradition of building stone cairns on hilltops. I've read that the current evidence points to the construction being overseen by an elite class of ritual leaders from Thunderbird and Water Spirit clans that were exerting increased socio-political influence. This can be seen in the number of Thunderbird and Water Spirit motifs on pottery and a thunderbird petroglyph located close by. The source I shared also mentioned that "...the stone cairns of Red Wing function as sacred altars/conduits between the Above [Thunderbird] and Below [Water Spirit] worlds." This new cultural tradition could make for an interesting flavor event.

Etzanoa

With its settlement starting in 1300, I'd like to see Etzanoa be treated as the North American equivalent to Ayutthaya. It starts as a one-location, unassuming tag that should be able to follow events that could enable it to become one of the large Native American population centers north of Mexico (second only to Cahokia)!

Xe

Xe has seen human habitation for thousands but its most notable occupation was by the Oneota people starting in 1300. By the arrival of Europeans, an estimated 6,000 to 10,000 people lived at the site and surrounding villages.

Ni Okaška

The Kincaid site in southern Illinois, Ni Okaška was theorized to perhaps be the same polity as the Angel Mounds site but, since it's not definitive, I've got them separate just in case.

Akansea

The Angel Mounds chiefdom, Akansea is the regional trade center along the Ohio River. It may have held together until around 1500.

Chippecoke

The Vincennes phase chiefdom centered around the Otter Pond site. The Otter Pond site was located at the confluence of the Embarras and Wabash Rivers which happens to be the location of the Chippecoke village.

Channahon

The location of the Briscoe Mounds site, I decreased the size a bit when I found out that other villages around Lake Michigan were dated to about a century after.

Manitoumie

Manitoumie (the name that was originally used for the mounds in the area) is the Mississippian polity in the Apple River Valley. It's centered on the Mills site and is struggling to hang on until 1350. It isn't entirely clear what its relationship was with Cahokia, but it is known that there was a decline in influence from Cahokia during this period.

Koshkonong

Koshkonong was an Oneota chiefdom at Koshkonong Lake. It has numerous burial and effigy mounds.

Winnebago

Like Koshkonong, Winnebago is a lakeside Oneota site with plenty of burial and effigy mounds.

Towosahgy

A chiefdom in southern Missouri that includes the main Towosahgy site and the Murphy Mound site.

 

[King_Potat]

East Coast Review!

I’ve seen a lot of suggestions posted for increasing the location density of various parts of continental America, but I haven’t seen much for the east coast, the area players are most likely to interact with during colonization. So here's a good month of work put in to increase the density both across the board and in specific areas that really needed it (Hudson River, Lower Great Lakes, Mouth of the Delaware River, Mouth of the Susquehanna River, Chesapeake Bay, and Albemarle Sound). I also added minor additions to Ohio and various parts of the south to make the overall density flow better from east to west with the addition of these locations. Not all locations on this list are new, some have just been moved to the correct position or given a number for clarification and clarity. Rivers have been crudely drawn mostly to show which side of a river a location is on.

All locations borders north of South Carolina were made with the borders of existing locations in mind unless noted otherwise. This list was compiled through finding locations on old maps and then cross referencing them with various texts, predominantly Frederick Webb Hodge’s “Handbook of American Indians north of Mexico” (the copy I used can be found here, and it accounts for a good 80% of the uncorrupted forms). Notes regarding the density of certain areas will be explained at the bottom, alongside any other notes.

The compilation document that shows which maps present which locations can be found here (plus ~600 more recorded ones that did not make the cut): green means accepted or added in some way, orange shows a potential problem with an existing location, red is a removal of a location, dark green means accepted but could not fit it on the map, and grey means disqualified (this only applies to GA and FL for reasons that are explained at the bottom).

Full Image:

Zoomed In:

Full list of Numbered Locations:

1.) Kenomee
2.) Pugnico (Older Corrupted Form)/Pubnico (Later Uncorrupted Form & Wiki Standard)
3.) Chezzetcook
4.) Pesaquid/ Pisiquid/Pisiguit (Wiki Standard)
5.) Sowocatuck (Casco -> 13 to be in its actual location)
6.) Kenduskeag
7.) Contoocook (Peimgewasset doesn’t appear to be in its proper location, it should extend further north than it currently does)
8.) Quaboag (Quinsigamond -> 9 to be in its actual location)
9.) Quinsigamond
10.) Nahant
11.) Hausatonic (when drawing actual borders, mind where Mahaiwe is as these locations are close together)
12.) Scituate
13.) Casco
14.) Narragansett
15.) Poquonnoc/Paquanaug (Preferred)
16.) Wecquaesgeek
17.) Nanichiestawack
18.) Whippany
19.) Acquackanonk
20.) Ompoge
21.) Yagawanshaking
22.) Naraticon
23.) Nanticoke/Kuskarawaok (Preferred)
24.) Amoye (Pelisipi could refer to anywhere along the Clinch river within TN, so I moved it north to fit Amoye)
25.) Setauket
26.) Rechtauck
27.) Mamaroneck (Tappan moves to the west side of the Hudson river)
28.) Wappinger
29.) Shawingunk
30.) Wawarsing (Wiki Standard)
31.) Kitchawan (moved to better suit its actual location)
32.) Poughkeepsie
33.) Ponkhockie (should probably be spelled Ponckhockie)
34.) Coxsackie
35.) Schaghticoke (Wiki Standard) (Horicon should be further north)
36.) Schoharie (Wiki Standard)
37.) Caughnawaga
38.) Ganasaraga
39.) Onondaga (get rid of Skaniantales and Tsikahiotsitso)
40.) Cayuga
41.) Goiogouen
42.) Onaquaga
43.) Owego
44.) Ischua
45.) Kiantone
46.) Tsonnnontouans (Can not find exact location of Ahouenro, hence border are drawn without regard for Ahouenro)
47.) Gandatsetiagon
48.) Tinawatawa
49.) Cepowig
50.) Attaock
51.) Conewago (Probably could easily continue border into Paxtangs location as Paxtang lies on the east side of the Susquehanna)
52.) Utchowig
53.) Quadroque
54.) Tesinigh
55.) Susquehanna
56.) Tinicum (Wiki Standard)
57.) Aromaninck
58.) Neshaminy (Border can be extended further into Tohickon)
59.) Atsoink/Atsayonk
60.) Chinklacamoose
61.) Venango (Wiki Standard)
62.) Dionosadage
63.) Tioga
64.) Kuskusky (Wiki Standard)
65.) Decanohoge
66.) Conneaut
67.) Maguck
68.) Wakatomica/Wakatomika (Wiki Standard)
69.) Wyondochella
70.) Chillicothe (replace Chianouske)
71.) Sonnontio (Preferred)/Lower Shawneetown (Technical Name)
72.) Michigamea
73.) Assateague
74.) Wicocomoco (More probable name)/Wicocomico (After river and more recent)
75.) Nantaquack
76.) Ozinies
77.) Tockwogh (remove wicomiss as it does not fit the borders drawn, nor the borders currently in existence)
78.) Nacotchtank
79.) Nussameck
80.) Cecomocomoco
81.) Monanauk
82.) Pautuxunt (MD Government)/Patuxent (Literally every other source)
83.) Mattapanient
84.) Octorara/Conowingo (Preferred as it appears to be older) (is drawn on the wrong side of the Susquehanna, but there are literally no other options to fill this area well and it is still technically debated about which side the term Conowingo best fits)
85.) Tauxenent
86.) Potomac (more recognizable and technical definition)/Patawomeck (older and well known corrupted form)
87.) Ozatawomen
88.) Onawmanient
89.) Secacawoni
90.) Moraughtacund
91.) Piankatank
92.) Werowacomoco
93.) Toppahannock (older and more accurate)/Rappahannock (more well known)
94.) Nantaughtacund
95.) Utenstank
96.) Kiequotank (technical name)/Kecoughtan (most recognizable)/Kikotan (Earliest uncorrupted form)
97.) Chiskiac
98.) Uttamussac
99.) Chattachiptico
100.) Skicoak
101.) Chesapeak (technical name for this settlement)/Chesapeake (More recent)
102.) Nansemond
103.) Quioucohanock (Technical and older)/Quiyoughcohannock (more recognizable)
104.) Weanoc
105.) Anacostia
106.) Pasquenoc
107.) Chepanoc
108.) Catoking
109.) Ricahokene
110.) Chowanoke
111.) Moratuc (preferred)/Moratoc
112.) Tramasqueac
113.) Desamonquepeuc
114.) Pomeioc
115.) Aquascogoc
116.) Cotan
117.) Secotan (while listed as being on the north side of the river [compared to cotan] by Hodge, I am doubtful of this claim as every other source shows it on the south side of the river)
118.) Secotaoc
119.) Neusiok (if not added, then replace Neuse)
120.) Roanoak (older and more technical)/Roanoke (more recognizeable)
121.) Croatan
122.) Kaskusara
123.) Cowinchahawkon
124.) Torhunta
—----------------------------------Line of No regard for other locations------------------------------------------
125.) Stono (preferred)/Stalame
126.) Otopali
127.) Wateree
128.) Sugeree
129.) Edisto
130.) Conasauga
131.) Marhawa (surrounding locations accounted for)
132.) Nitahauritz
133.) Tukabatchi
134.) Okchayi
135.) Nanibas
136.) Skanapa
137.) Chakchiuma
138.) Ibitoupa
—-----------------------------------Line of could not fit on map-----------------------------------------------------
139.) Matamec, QC
140.) Chippewa, WI
141.) Winnebago, WI
142.) Temiskaming, ON
—----------------------------------------Line of forgot to draw it------------------------------------------------------
143.) Schenectady
144.) Manahoac

Renamed Locations (largely based on technical definitions, not common ones or wikipedia standard, hence take these with a grain of salt):

• Antigonish -> Artigonish
• Nacoochee -> Naguchee
• Peoria -> Pimiteoui
• Passamaquoddy -> Passamacadie
• Quanasee -> Quanassee
• Pennacook -> Penacook
• Tekondaroken -> Ticonderoga
• Serachtague -> Saratoga
• Onenioteke -> Oneida
• Hocking -> Hockhocking
• Cuyahoga -> Cayahoga
• Tuskarawas -> Tuskara
• Ganaraska -> Ganeraske
• Toniato -> Tonihata
• Onojutta -> Onojuttahaga
• Wyomissing -> Wyoming (I completely understand why this one would not be added)
• Mohoning -> Mahanoy
• Sartigan -> Mechatigan
• Seekong -> Seakonk
• Wando -> Wontoot
• Peedee -> Pedee
• Winyah -> Winyaw
• Coosaw -> Cusso
• Tellico -> Telliquo
• Appamatuck -> Appomattoc
• Massinacak -> Massinacac
• Powhatan -> Wahunsonacock (the actual Indian name of the location referred to as powhatan. This renaming is also a bit icky since both names were used, but technically Wahunsonacock is more correct)

Replaced Locations:

• Eufaula -> Okmulgee
• Kociihsasiipi -> Kekionga
• Pocuntuck -> Skakeat/Squakheat
• Otsiningo -> Osewingo
• Ineniote -> Otsiningo

Density Rationale:

• Hudson River
  • Very important for early colonization
  • Properly allows the hudson river to be represented as a river within the game mechanics
  • Significantly more populated than surrounding areas
• Lower Great Lakes
  • Gives the Iroquoi more granularity
  • Gives region a better flow of density from east to west
• Mouth of the Delaware River
  • Important to properly represent colonization of Philadelphia and NJ, also some of the best land for farming
  • Significantly more populated than surrounding areas
• Mouth of the Susquehanna River
  • The Susquehanna were such bastards that they routinely raided as far south as the Rork river and as far north as Ticonderoga, and hence were a very powerful group prior to colonization
  • Keeps high density continuum flowing along the coast from MA to NC
  • Very high density population compared to surrounding areas prior to colonization
• Chesapeake Bay
  • Homeground and powerbase of the Powhatan confederacy
  • Highly important for the early history of VA and the USA
• Albemarle Sound
  • Roanoke colony failure representation
  • More populated than surrounding area

Notes:

• Many of the locations, particularly north of PA, prefer names that continued to exist until today rather than ones that were more relevant for the time. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but if the density is not increased here, do consider replacing some of the locations with more relevant ones.
• The locations in the southern portion of SC are a bit of a mess compared to where the locations are in reality. I’d suggest reviewing this region.
• Do not have the sand banks and islands off the coast of NC represent locations on the land of NC, the fact that Croatan was ~100 miles away from where it actually is should illustrate this point well. Instead have them represent the sand banks and islands that they were actually on as has been done in this proposal. If you really wanted to, you could further cut Croatan in half and add Wokokon, but I think that would be a bit much.
• GA and FL were largely cut from this proposal because I did not have the energy to finish them properly and, if I remember correctly, proposals have already been done to up their density. I also am unfamiliar with the area and I’d like to leave this double map conundrum to someone who actually knows what is being represented here and here (yes ik it's the St. Johns river, but I’m not sure how to actually map that, and I can’t find much actual location data for the listed locations), hence many of the GA and FL locations on the spreadsheet are greyed out.
• As far as RGOs go, it's pretty much up to you due to lack of documentation. My only request is that Kikotan gets Fish.
• There should be a Powhatan SoP (combine the Rappahanock, Nansemond, the one that I can't read that starts with T and controls Powhatan, and the Doeg SoP's portions that lie within VA). Expansion of the Tsenacommacah SoP further east (until Chiskiac and Nansemond proper) and some sort of railroading to simulate the consolidation that occured.

 

[DruddigonEnjoyer]

Hi I made a sourced write up that may be very important for mid atlantic content and it got flagged as spam, could I be cleared by mods please?

 

[Tahami Tsunami]

@King_Potat As someone else who's also spent months looking up locations and stitching together pieces of the map to get the area I want, this looks fantastic and I'll be spending some time looking through it all! The devs should definitely look at this too since, like you said, this will be the region that European players will interact with the most. The rivers are a nice touch as well!

That SoP that starts with a T that you're referring to is Tsenacommacah, the name the Powhatan used for their homeland (and the name that should be used if they were to be a country) so that's being used instead of Powhatan.

If there's one suggestion that I could make, the location where you put 134 should probably go to Moculixa aka Moundville instead since it's located between Taliepacana and Zabusta.