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Tinto Maps #5 - 7th of June 2024 - Italy

Hello everyone, and welcome to the fifth Tinto Maps! This week we will be sharing the map of Italy.

One comment before we start: we know that you might be eager to discuss other regions that may appear partially on the DD, such as the Balkans. Let’s try to keep the conversations separated in different threads, please; every region will get its own Tinto Maps, and we will show them and gather feedback in due time, in their own DD.

With that said, let’s start!:

Countries
Countries.jpg

The situation of Italy in 1337 is quite interesting. The main power in the peninsula is the Kingdom of Naples, ruled by King Robert I, who is also ruler of Provence, and a few minor countries in Northern Italy; his efforts towards the domination of Italy also made him the leader of the Guelph faction in Italy, which backs the Pope. Speaking of him, the seat of the Curia is at Avignon, and regaining control over the Papal States and moving it back to Rome might take some time and effort. Opposite to all of them, there is the Ghibelline faction, led by the Signoria of Milan, ruled by the Visconti dynasty. They are backed by other important powers in the Italian region, such as the Superb Republic of Genoa, or the Duchy of Verona, ruled by the dynasty of della Scala. There are also neutral powers, like the Republics of Venice or Siena, although they could be attracted to join one of the factions. And we also have foreign powers that have already set a foothold in Italy, such as the Crown of Aragon, which has established a branch of its dynasty as Kings of Sicilia, while also recently conquering some lands in Sardinia.

g&gs.png

Guelphs.jpg

Ghibellines.jpg

Guelphs and Ghibellines factions! They are International Organizations part of a Situation.

Dynasties
dynasties.png


Locations
Locations.jpg

There is an interesting density in Italy, especially in the North, where there are plenty of communes - the Italian city-states. You might also notice something a bit different from previous Paradox GSGs: Venice is not an island, but the location has lands around the lagoon. We aren’t 100% sure that this will be the final design, as we have a few ideas to try to keep its special position on an island inside the lagoon while addressing the issue of it being too small to appear in the map; in this regard, we’re open about feedback and ideas on the topic.

Provinces
Provinces.jpg

Any naming suggestions about the provinces are well-received, as usual.

Terrain
Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

Three usual terrain layers. Something that I want to comment on is that we’ve been following this thread about ‘Revising Flatlands and hills’, and we are trying to get a bit more granularity in the Topographical map with the help of @SulphurAeron .

Cultures
Cultures.jpg

Italy is also a region with a sharp cultural division, and also plenty of minorities; although they don’t appear on the map, there are Italki Jews, or Greek and Albanian people in the South, among others.

Religions
Religion.jpg

Another boring region, with more than 90% of the population being Catholic, with most of the religious minorities being Italkim Jews and Orthodox Greeks. We're considering implementing Waldensians, although adding more diverging Catholic heresies/confessions is a bit of a low priority for us right now. As a side note, it might catch your eye the Krstjani of Bosnia; we’ll discuss them later on, in the Tinto Maps devoted to the Balkans.

Raw Goods
Raw Goods.jpg

Italy is a rich region with plenty of interesting raw materials.

Markets
Markets.jpg

There are three market centers in Italy: Genoa, Venice, and Naples (which was a very, very rich country in 1337, the wealthiest of the region). As usual, take into account that. 1. We don't script in the setup which locations belong to each market, they're automatically assigned to each market. 2. This starting distribution is not final, and it might change, as we do tweaks to the market access calculations over time.

Population
Pops Countries.jpg

Pops Locations.png

There is around 10.5M population in the Italian region as of now. Taking into account how divided the political landscape is, Naples looks scary…

And that’s all for this week! For the next one, we will be talking about the British Isles, with @SaintDaveUK . See you!
 
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I can't figure out the name of the location west of Monferato. Also, wouldn't Chivasso be a better name for the Monferato location, since that was the actual town that was the center of power in the region?
Edit: Since I'm getting some disagrees for some reason, I'd suggesting reading my much later post about how the seat of the Marquis switched from Chivasso to Casale in the 15th century and how having both cities in the game would be best.
 
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This looks great! Culture map is clean. I'd love to see the counts of Ventimiglia being added, they frequently defied Genoese rule and were interestingly ruled by a Greek dynasty much like Montferrat was.
 
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1717765976687.png

Southern what

Bavarian?
 
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Any plans for what happens if someone other than the Pope owns Rome? Can you reduce the Papal States down to just the location of Rome without consequences?
 
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About Venice Island

Strategic realism > geographical realism

It's better to make the island way bigger than it was, if that lead to better model the strategic realities of it, ie being an island and needing a navy to conquer it.

Also you could find other ways to show it, as make a circle of water around it with border being selectable as the Venice location, or a special icon/map texture
 
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> Venice is not an island, but the location has lands around the lagoon. We aren’t 100% sure that this will be the final design, as we have a few ideas to try to keep its special position on an island inside the lagoon while addressing the issue of it being too small to appear in the map; in this regard, we’re open about feedback and ideas on the topic.

Can you maybe do an overlay, the way Hawaii are usually represented on the US map? Or is there no way for the engine to support this?
300px-Hawaii_in_United_States_%28US50%29_%28%2Bgrid%29_%28zoom%29_%28W3%29.svg.png
 
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I think the culture in central italy shouldn't be called "Umbrian" but "Mediano" since it's what the dialects of that regions are called (Mediano) and Umbrian is used to talk about only the people in the region of Umbria and not the people in Lazio and Abruzzo/Marche
 
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My suggestion would be to make this part the location of Venice, which would be an island. The rest would be another location.
1717766086287.png

EDIT: To clarify, the land within the circle, not the entire area of the circle. It'd be the same size as what I assume is the Rijeka location in Croatia.
 
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One comment before we start: we know that you might be eager to discuss other regions that may appear partially on the DD, such as the Balkans. Let’s try to keep the conversations separated in different threads, please; every region will get its own Tinto Maps, and we will show them and gather feedback in due time, in their own DD.
Bloody teaching from the last TM.
 
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When I see a big Verona , I think of the Romeo and Juliet story which is set in Verona and the Duke of Verona had to keep the two families from fighting each other, also I’m keen to play as Pisa and see it return to its former trading glory. Lastly where are San Marino and Forli, they were both independent entities alongside many city states in northern Italy
 
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