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Tinto Maps #7 - 21st of June 2024 - Anatolia

Hello everyone, and welcome to the seventh edition of Tinto Maps! I am once again asking for your support back to the duty of showing a new region of the map of the super secret Project Caesar, which this week is Anatolia!

Countries:
Countries.jpg

A beautifully divided Anatolia! The disintegration of the Sultanate of Rûm in the 13th century, caused by the Mongol invasion, led to multiple Turkish Beyliks grabbing power over their area. Probably the strongest in 1337 is the Ottoman one, founded by the Turkoman leader Osman Ghazi, but there are other strong contenders such as the Eretnids, the Germiyanids, or the Karamanids, which will be fighting for hegemony over the region. You might also notice that the Byzantine Empire//Eastern Roman Empire//Basileía Rhōmaíōn//[insert here your favorite naming option] still holds a few positions in Anatolia, the most notable being the city of Philadelphia. Apart from them, other interesting countries in the region are the Despotate of Trebizond, held by the Komnenoi, the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia, and, of course, The-country-known-in-another-IP-as-Hisn-Kayfa, the Ayyubid remnant in al-Jazira. And you might also notice some Genoese outposts, making them important players as well.

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The dynastic map is pretty straightforward, as a different dynasty rules each Beylik. We have fixed the issue with the random dynasty names, so no more weird 'the XXXX of XXXX' dynastic names anymore. To spice things up, we could maybe start a Byzantine discussion: Palaiologos, or Komnenos?

Locations:
Locations.jpg

As usual, please consider that dynamic location naming is not yet a thing in this region, and therefore the inconsistencies in the language used. As an additional note of caution, please don’t use the Aegean Islands as a reference or benchmark for comparison, as a review of them is something that we’ve got on our list of ‘to do’. You may be able to see that the location density in the region is gradual, from denser coastal regions to bigger inland ones.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

We have changed the coloring of the provinces, making them more different, and easier to understand, though. Apart from that, suggestions in this matter are welcomed, as usual.

Terrain:
Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

The terrain in Anatolia is quite interesting and unique, as it’s composed of very different features: the central Anatolian Plateau, with a colder climate and more sparse vegetation, is opposed to the rugged and more forested coastlines to the north and south, while only having fluvial flatlands to the west, and in Cilicia (an area that always has been a choke point between Anatolia and Syria. And to the east, the territory becomes increasingly more mountainous, as it approaches the Caucasus.

Cultures:
Cultures.jpg

Anatolia is the first region of the Middle East with cultural and religious minorities added, just in time for this Tinto Maps, so we can have endless discussions about the divide between the Greek and Turkish cultures! Hurray! Now seriously, we’ve made what we think is the most accurate division for 1337, given the scarcity of data. The stripes point to a variation of the pop percentages in each location, from let’s say 70% of Greeks in Izmit or Bursa, to 80% of Turks in Ankara or Konya. We have also added some subdivisions of these cultures, with the Pontic and Cappadocian Greeks; and the Turkomans (you might note a majority of them around Sivas and Malatya), that portray more a ‘class//social grouping’ divide than an ethnic or language divide, as these Turkoman pops are always tribesmen, while we consider the settled population as Turkish. Other than that, we have a good amount of Armenians distributed between the areas of Cilicia and Armenia; Laz people to the north; and Kurds to the east (the brownish-greenish culture). Also, please ignore the chunk of Syria that appears, as the minorities there are not yet done.

Religions:
Religions.jpg

We’re back to interesting religious divisions! We have in Anatolia Orthodox, Sunni, Miaphysite, and Nestorian pops. And if you wonder what are those pink stripes in Thrace, they are a Paulician minority.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.jpg

There are some interesting materials distributed all over Anatolia, such as Alum (which was a main export to Italy, usually handled by the merchant republics), Silk, Marble, or Copper. And if you’re wondering about the Spices, they were previously Saffron.

Markets:
Markets.jpg

The market centers of the region are Constantinople to the west, Trebizond to the north, and Damascus to the south. Nothing speaks against a Turkish Beylik conquering one or all of them, or creating a new market center, probably in the middle of the Anatolian Plateau, although probably it will require some infrastructure to make it fully functional.

Location and Country Population:
Pops Locations.jpg

Pops Country.jpg

And populations. Byzantium has some edge over each of the Beylikz, but not if they ally with each other, or if they ally with its Balkanic rivals… Also, have I heard about a 66K Ayyubid challenge?

That’s all for today! We’ll most likely be uploading the French feedback results by the end of next week or at the start of the following one (as next week there's an important bank holiday for this company, Midsommar St. John's Day, and some people will be on vacation a few days), and in the meantime, we'll also be reading and answering your feedback about Anatolia. And next Friday, we will be taking a look at Russia. See you then!

PS: I had a flight today that was delayed, therefore the delay on the DD until an (interesting) hour in which I'll be available for replying.
 
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Agreed ... but hey, be honest, when in eu4 did you ever have to stop a siege due to lack of money/manpower? :D
With no enemy army around we always just wait and win. Hence I really hope long sieges get more difficult to maintain. :)
honestly I think your manpower being representative of your population and, especially in the early game, your armies mostly being levies, could make the attrition of continuing a siege punishing enough if the numbers are tuned correctly
 
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I know this is much to ask for in a game still developing, but I hope the Ottomans have their relationship with the craftsmen of the Ahi Brotherhood reflected in-game.
 
Hard to tell because of the resolution, but on the population/Location mapmode Rhodos has a population of 16.038
Pops Locations.jpg

while on the population/Country mapmode it seems to have a population of 51.035
Pops Country.jpg

Does that mean the Knights Hospitaller have more than the Location of Rhodos at gamestart, or is it a a visual Bug, or should I visit an Optometrist?
("Optometrist" thank you DragonSlapper64)

edit: changed ophthalmologist to Optometrist (and updated the thanks lol)
 
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Hard to tell because of the resolution, but on the population/Location mapmode Rhodos has a population of 16.038
View attachment 1153761
while on the population/Country mapmode it seems to have a population of 51.035
View attachment 1153762
Does that mean the Knights Hospitaller have more than the Location of Rhodos at gamestart, or is it a a visual Bug, or should I visit an ophthalmologist? ("ophthalmologist" thank you google translate)
I can't even read that second one lol. Also Optometrist is the more common Eye Doctor, an Ophthalmologist is more of an eye surgeon (At least here)
 
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Hello Dear Developers,

I would like to mention that the district of Iliç was formerly known as Kuruçay. This was because the district center was located in the town of Kuruçay until the construction of a new railway station in the village of İliç during the Republic period of Turkey. The establishment of this new station led to the decision to move the district center from Kuruçay to İliç, a relatively recent event occurring in the Republican era of Turkey. In the 14th century, İliç was just a small village with a few farms and was not considered significant. The Ottomans referred to the region as the "Kuruçay Kazası" (kaza meaning sub-district) since Kuruçay was the largest town and the regional center. I've provided my sources below and hope everything is clear.

Citation from the official website of the Province of Erzincan in Turkey:
1719402170722.png



Turkish:"Kuruçay adıyla, Kemaliye ilçesine bağlı bir bucak merkezi iken, 1938 yılında demiryolunun İliçten geçmesi üzerine, Kuruçay kaza merkezi İliçe taşınarak İİiç ilçe yapılmıştır."

English:"While it was a sub-district center of Kemaliye district under the name Kuruçay, after the railway passed through İliç in 1938, Kuruçay district center was moved to İliç and it was made İliç district."

Also a citation from an article about the borders and the place names in the region of Erzincan ,from the Erzincan University Social Sciences Department's Research Magazine, written by the most prestigious historians of the region:

1719402326840.png



Turkish: "Bu arada 1939’da demiryolunun geçmesiylebirlikte ilçe merkezi Kuruçay’dan İliç’e taşınmıştır"
English: "By the way, in 1939, with the construction of the railway, the district center was moved from Kuruçay to İliç."

The Aforomentioned article:
1719402464227.png




Also I've marked the place in the map that I talked about :

Locations.jpg
 
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I am also curious about that. With the game's mechanics not allowing propagation of control over that, it will probably have a bailiff at the game's start, probably giving it a flat 20-40% control. I wonder if it would be better off as a vassal instead.
from what sources I have read it would act more like a city state/trading outpost than anything else
 
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Ahis are practically guilders under Eretna. They provide soldiers etc and in exchange they can conduct business. There can be a similar mechanic to Hospitaller Knights and or a republic.
Another option can be, don't give them rulers but make them an estate.
 
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bit late however i feel that there should be somthing which stops AI byz from accepting the taking of constantinople unless its being full-annexed. To protrary the revelance the city had to the greeks in the empire (yes some might say romans but im saying greek).
 
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Will the Saruhanids have the White Hand of Saruhan like in older games or will they have a historical flag (if those exist for the Beyliks)?
The issue is, we don't know what sort of flag they used. The most often mentioned one seems to be this:
begs.png


But I haven't been able to track it down to any reputable source. I think it's a nice little easter egg, so leaving it as is should be mostly fine? I don't know, if the fine folks at Paradox can figure out where the flag above comes from, or a more historically accurate alternative, that might work as well.
 
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The issue is, we don't know what sort of flag they used. The most often mentioned one seems to be this: View attachment 1154152

But I haven't been able to track it down to any reputable source. I think it's a nice little easter egg, so leaving it as is should be mostly fine? I don't know, if the fine folks at Paradox can figure out where the flag above comes from, or a more historically accurate alternative, that might work as well.
This looks like the tamga of the Afshar. What's the source?
 
Will the Saruhanids have the White Hand of Saruhan like in older games or will they have a historical flag (if those exist for the Beyliks)?
Not really. Flags or coat of arms did not exist among the Turkoman akin to modern usage. Most beylik flags are from the contemporary Catalan Atlas, which itself seems unsourced in this regard. And of course it was read wrong, with the flag of Teke being thought of as the flag of Karaman for years. The hexagram flag is not really related to the Karaman.
The issue is, we don't know what sort of flag they used. The most often mentioned one seems to be this: View attachment 1154152

But I haven't been able to track it down to any reputable source. I think it's a nice little easter egg, so leaving it as is should be mostly fine? I don't know, if the fine folks at Paradox can figure out where the flag above comes from, or a more historically accurate alternative, that might work as well.
Seems to be the Afshar tamgha. Using tamghas of whichever Oghuz tribe founded the beyliks might be a good choice, but the beylik isn't always clear and often more than one beylik was founded by the same tribe. Yüreğir tribe for the Ramazan and Çepni tribe for the beyliks of Canik is a no brainer. Avşar tribe seem to have founded Aydınids, Saruhanids, Karamanids, İnançids and possibly Dulkadirids, who are also thought to be Bayat. Teke seem to be of the Salur tribe, and Çandarids are thought to be Kayı. Of course some of these are dynastic legends or folk histories.
 
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The Tinto Maps 3 weeks ago was Italy, last week was Anatolia, and we're about to have Russia. If it weren't for Great Britain and Ireland, we would've have the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Romes all in a row!

Regardless, this talk of flags has me curious to see when we'll start getting a closer look at more flags since I think we've only seen some of them in the trade map a while ago.
 
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I can't even read that second one lol. Also Optometrist is the more common Eye Doctor, an Ophthalmologist is more of an eye surgeon (At least here)
I cobbled together the number that I think is in the second one for comparison here
Pops Rhodos.jpg

(I took the "high-res-numbers" from the Karasids part of the map and moved them via Paint if your curious)
 
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