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Tinto Talks #13 - 22nd of May 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, where we give out top-secret information about our upcoming unannounced game with the code name Project Caesar. This time we will touch a little bit on the aspect of religion in this game.

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Every country, pop, or character has a religion they adhere to. This impacts their relationship with the place they currently are, and their relationship with others in the world.


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This is the religious setup of Aragon in 1337.

Every religion in Project Caesar belongs to a Religion Group, such as Christianity or Paganism. Fellow religions in the same group consider each other to be merely Heretic, whereas religions in different groups condemn each other as Heathen.

Every religion has a specific view of other religions as well, that ranges from Kindred to Enemy, which impacts relations between countries of different faiths, and how populations of another faith view your country.

Each country also has their own tolerance of their true faith, of heretics, and of heathens, which impacts how happy or angry the population will be depending on which country they belong to.


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The Same Religion here, is from the law relating to valid heirs.

The religious unity of your country has a really large impact on the satisfaction of your Clergy Estate.

Important to know is that in Project Caesar, you just do not send missionaries to your locations and eventually they have changed religion. Here conversion is a slower process, which relies on government activities and infrastructure.


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A unique building for Muslim countries that has a tiny impact on conversion.

Each religion belongs to a group, which impacts which tolerance is applied and how religions interact with each other. Religions in the same group are viewed as heretics, but those of another group as heathens.

The groups we currently have are, but that may change as we continue to develop the game.
  • Christian
  • Muslim
  • Eastern
  • Dharmic
  • Zoroastrian
  • Manichean
  • Judean
  • Andean
  • Pagan

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The current Christian religions. Take into account that they are very much WIP!

In some games we have made there have not been any major differences between religions, merely being different modifiers, and while some religions in Project Caesar are still only a few modifiers, many will have mechanics. Right now, we have made unique mechanics for Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Miaphysitism, the various Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, Shinto, Nahuatl, Hinduism & the Inti religion. Each of these will get their own unique later development diary.

Now every religion will still have some modifiers that describe them, in many cases it is things that enable or disable certain mechanics. Some examples include the fact that countries with Jain as their state religion can not start wars without a casus belli, and that Calvinist countries will never reroll the dice in a battle, as everything is preordained.

Stay tuned for next week, where we talk about another completely new feature that adds flavor to the game.

Sadly, I can’t reply today, as I am at some management thingie in Stockholm, but @Pavía will help you out!
 
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Would not be better to rename "Myaphisite" to Eastern Orthodox, and "Nestorian" to Syriac or the Church of the East? You don't use Christological terms to name the other sects.
 
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That should probably be reversed. Historically, "Shinto" never really existed in its modern context before the era of Kokugaku scholarship in the Edo Period. Before that, Shinto as a concept was not a thing anyone would have recognized. Kami Worship was varied from place to place. Village to village even, it was highly decentralized outside of the Imperial Cult. Buddhism was dominant in Japan until after World War 2. Shinto Shrines were inside of Buddhist temples most of the time, and as well Buddhist sects and Monasteries were landholding elites with levy armies of their own and contributed heavily to the power politics of Japan. For as many powerful Shugo, Clans, and other various forms of Warlords as there were there were just as many Temples and Sects that held wide swathes of land themselves.

Please reconsider this. I believe the best way to handle it would to have Mahayana be the dominant religion in Japan with "Kami Worship" as a minority faith. That would be the most historically authentic. Shinto is just a fantasy faith in this time period, even as an umbrella term for Kami Worship, Kami Worship was still less influential than Buddhism. Buddhism was hugely connected to politics in Japan, Kami Worship was not after Buddhism took over.

I really want to see a Japan that has the landholding Buddhist sects represented. I'd love to see a map tag that can spawn for Ishiyama Honganji for example or other such regional powerholding Temples. Even an Osaka tag if possible as a spawnable republic vassal.
"Shintō" is still a useful categorization imo, even if it's sort of retroactive at best and inaccurate at worst. Similarly, "Hinduism" wasn't really a thing until Muslim and later European conquerors used the term as a wastebasket to describe all the "pagan" beliefs of the people of the Indian subcontinent.
I do think Buddhism should be a lot more prevalent in Japan at game start, perhaps even the majority, with there being "relapse" later in the game's timeline to symbolize Shintouism becoming more of a concrete religion and not just "Japanese folk religion".

Alternatively, you could take the easy way out and make all Japanese pops "Shinbutsu-shūgō" which is the term for the Shintou-Buddhist syncretism everpresent in Japan right up until WW2. Regardless even if it's not its own religion (which can feel a bit lazy), there should definitely be a sort of syncretism mechanic there, which I imagine there will be at state-level at least.
 
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Personally, I'm a little bit worried with the overwhelming amount of wastelands populating the map and their massive extension. Maybe it's just an impression of mine and I won't see it as bad once I play the game but, man, they do feel 'weird' and chaotic visually. Unfortunately, I can't tell if we're going to be able to replicate some 17th and 18th centuries' borders in some parts of the world. Even so, great post, the religion looks much better than in Eu4 :)
 
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Hopefully we get wakanism foundations as central andean religion. It's nonsensical to call it inti when they wouldn't even worship it as a faith or doctrine, more like it was the obligatory reverence towards the inca's (inti's son) waka.
Chronicles mention deep devotion towards the apu called pachakamaq (creator apu), compared to the other apus.
 
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Hinduism, Jainism and Sikhism, as Buddhism is considered 'Eastern', correct. We don't like much that 'Heathen' division between Hinduism and Buddhism either, so we're looking for a better solution, although it's complicated.
I've seen Hindu temples with shrines to Jesus Christ and Mother Theresa. It can be a very permissive faith - perhaps just put it in the pagan group and give them high levels of acceptance towards heathens?
 
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I'm very excited about this game, it looks great. I don't know if I can do this here. But I have so many hopes for this game that I need to say this. I know a YouTube channel about history in Spanish that I think is the best in its category in this language. I know that there are people on the team who speak Spanish so you could understand it;

The channel is called "Pero esa es Otra Historia" or "But that's another story" in english. And it has literally described the entire history of humanity until the beginning of the Modern Age; and now he has been preparing that Age for more than a year; He has done the Modern Italy, the spanish viceroyalties of America and now he is doing the Modern France.

I think that you could get a lot of information from there, and there will surely be more content released before you finished the game.
 
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Would not be better to rename "Myaphisite" to Eastern Orthodox, and "Nestorian" to Syriac or the Church of the East? You don't use Christological terms to name the other sects.
Then you'd have two Easter orthodox religions. I guess "Oriental Orthodox" would work since that's what they call themselves now, but that would anachronistic since IIRC they only started using that name in the modern era.
 
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I'm wondering, since the Papal State is always the leader of the Catholic church. What happens if it is conquered by someone? Will it pop back into existence from one of the Catholic countries in the world or will it continue to exist as one of the landless countries?
 
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I'm wondering, since the Papal State is always the leader of the Catholic church. What happens if it is conquered by someone? Will it pop back into existence from one of the Catholic countries in the world or will it continue to exist as one of the landless countries?
My hope is that it exists as landless and can be "re-granted" land by any Catholic state that chooses to do so.

Really I just want that to be a general mechanic, where some types of states can become "unlanded" but still exist as a landless state, and that landless states can reacquire land.
 
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It looks like you're sharing details about a new feature in an upcoming game, Project Caesar, focusing on the intricate system of religion within the game. This approach to religion, where each group has unique mechanics and impacts on gameplay, seems to add a rich layer of depth and strategy. Here are some highlights and thoughts:
  1. Diverse Religious Groups: The inclusion of a wide variety of religious groups like Christianity, Islam, Eastern religions, Dharmic faiths, and others suggests a comprehensive and inclusive design. This could appeal to players who appreciate historical and cultural accuracy.
  2. Inter-religious Dynamics: The differentiation between heretics and heathens, and the specific views religions hold toward each other, could lead to interesting diplomatic and conflict scenarios in the game. This system encourages players to consider religious relations in their strategies.
  3. Unique Mechanics: Providing unique mechanics for different religions, such as special rules for Calvinists and Jains, enhances replayability and encourages players to experiment with different religions and strategies.
  4. Conversion Process: The gradual conversion process relying on government actions and infrastructure rather than just sending missionaries adds realism and depth, making religious management more engaging.
  5. Impact on Society: The emphasis on religious unity and its impact on the Clergy Estate and overall societal happiness ties religion closely to the game's socio-political mechanics, adding another layer of strategic consideration for players.
Overall, this feature seems to offer a nuanced and immersive gameplay experience, reflecting the complex role of religion in historical and societal development. Players interested in historical strategy games will likely find this approach both challenging and rewarding.
 
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My hope is that it exists as landless and can be "re-granted" land by any Catholic state that chooses to do so.

Really I just want that to be a general mechanic, where some types of states can become "unlanded" but still exist as a landless state, and that landless states can reacquire land.
They mentioned countries not based off owning land, and several of their games have states like that, like stellaris has enclaves, CK3 actually has unlanded rulers for if the pope loses the papal states, as well as for other important figures like the Patriarch of Alexandria (also called the Pope) and the Ecumenical Patriarch, so I'd assume they have some mechanic so that the Pope could just be kicking around in some guys court basically like in CK3.
 
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They mentioned countries not based off owning land, and several of their games have states like that, like stellaris has enclaves, CK3 actually has unlanded rulers for if the pope loses the papal states, as well as for other important figures like the Patriarch of Alexandria (also called the Pope) and the Ecumenical Patriarch, so I'd assume they have some mechanic so that the Pope could just be kicking around in some guys court basically like in CK3.
That's the hope at least. I've got at least one major mod idea that I want to do that hinges on that behavior.