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Tinto Talks #13 - 22nd of May 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, where we give out top-secret information about our upcoming unannounced game with the code name Project Caesar. This time we will touch a little bit on the aspect of religion in this game.

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Every country, pop, or character has a religion they adhere to. This impacts their relationship with the place they currently are, and their relationship with others in the world.


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This is the religious setup of Aragon in 1337.

Every religion in Project Caesar belongs to a Religion Group, such as Christianity or Paganism. Fellow religions in the same group consider each other to be merely Heretic, whereas religions in different groups condemn each other as Heathen.

Every religion has a specific view of other religions as well, that ranges from Kindred to Enemy, which impacts relations between countries of different faiths, and how populations of another faith view your country.

Each country also has their own tolerance of their true faith, of heretics, and of heathens, which impacts how happy or angry the population will be depending on which country they belong to.


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The Same Religion here, is from the law relating to valid heirs.

The religious unity of your country has a really large impact on the satisfaction of your Clergy Estate.

Important to know is that in Project Caesar, you just do not send missionaries to your locations and eventually they have changed religion. Here conversion is a slower process, which relies on government activities and infrastructure.


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A unique building for Muslim countries that has a tiny impact on conversion.

Each religion belongs to a group, which impacts which tolerance is applied and how religions interact with each other. Religions in the same group are viewed as heretics, but those of another group as heathens.

The groups we currently have are, but that may change as we continue to develop the game.
  • Christian
  • Muslim
  • Eastern
  • Dharmic
  • Zoroastrian
  • Manichean
  • Judean
  • Andean
  • Pagan

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The current Christian religions. Take into account that they are very much WIP!

In some games we have made there have not been any major differences between religions, merely being different modifiers, and while some religions in Project Caesar are still only a few modifiers, many will have mechanics. Right now, we have made unique mechanics for Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Miaphysitism, the various Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, Shinto, Nahuatl, Hinduism & the Inti religion. Each of these will get their own unique later development diary.

Now every religion will still have some modifiers that describe them, in many cases it is things that enable or disable certain mechanics. Some examples include the fact that countries with Jain as their state religion can not start wars without a casus belli, and that Calvinist countries will never reroll the dice in a battle, as everything is preordained.

Stay tuned for next week, where we talk about another completely new feature that adds flavor to the game.

Sadly, I can’t reply today, as I am at some management thingie in Stockholm, but @Pavía will help you out!
 
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Why is Finland and Karelia represented as Christian? These areas were not really Christian until the Protestant Reformation and certainly not in the 1300s.
In 1337 Sweden did not control even most of Finland, and only really actually held control of places like Hämeenlinna, Turku, and Uusimaa. Certainly most of Finland, especially those areas not even under Swedish control would have been Finnic pagan, and as for Karelia quite little is known, however it is certain that not a lot of the region would be Christian, so I do not understand why you added the Finnish and Karelians as magically being Christian, but allowed the Sami to keep their original pagan religion?
 
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The fact that conversion speed is calculated by pops runs the risk of repeating EUIV's issue where the big urban centers are much harder to convert than the isolated countryside, even though it really should be the other way around. This was one of th ebiggest failings imo of EUIV's development and religious systems, and if after all these new population and religious systems the end result is just the exact same issue that would be a massive shame. From what I've seen of the control and infrastructure mechanics PC does have the necessary tools to avoid this issue, but only if the team actively takes the steps necessary to do so.
 
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Looks good. Questionable color choice for Hindu though. Hindu and India in general are really colorful so them being represented by a drab beige color doesn't really fit imo.
 
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Will it be possible to reform religions and form a new Interbational Organisation? Say, not unlike CK2 reforming norse religion and have an equivalent of a pope of a nordic religion.
 
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What is the style of this map? I see Scandinavia and greenland finally not so big but still quite big
I know it is too late but did you think in any moment about "globe" map? Like in Warhammer 40k dawn od war maybe.
 
Looking great so far, though I do hope there end up being more Protestant denominations than just Lutheran and Calvinist, although perhaps distinctions between different groups could be modeled also with the Patriarchate system that seems to be in existence already. I’m really exited about what I’ve seen so far.

One question Pavia, I am curious what the design philosophy for religious mechanics will be. Are certain religions going to be more “meta” than others like in EU4, will they be balanced to favor historical circumstances, or will they be balanced for gameplay? It was always quite frustrating when playing EU4 to feel like staying Catholic as Spain was handicapping the play-through because Orthodoxy or Protestantism was more powerful.

Can you shed some light on the design philosophy for religion modifiers and mechanics in game? I don’t think they need to be perfectly balanced as long as the stronger religions mechanically are the same ones that were successful and grew during the time period, but I’d like to be assured that major religions won’t feel like handicaps.
We're designing the religions based on two principles:

1. Historical, cultural, and religious accuracy -> 'Flavor immersion'.
2. Fun and interesting mechanics to play.

We're not thinking about 'meta religions', etc., just that they feel and play good and entertaining. Obviously, we'll focus more on polishing and balancing as the project comes closer to the future release, but that's not our current main focus.
 
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Will there be holy sites for each religion?

And, will there be buffs for converting a certain region (or a religion controlling all its holy sites if those are in game)? Kinda like in Ck3 with how the Zoroastrians get the Saoshyant buffs if they capture all of Persia back from the Muslims.
For each one that considers holy sites important, yes.
 
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COnsidering this game will take place with Protestant reformation and spread of Islam to South-East Asia, how does the game will simulate conversion of population that is NOT isndie your realm? Aka Will there be religion spread beyond your borders?
 
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I have been following the diaries without comment for a while now and have been pleasantly surprised by the willingness to make big changes to the established formula. I wish, however, that Paradox would change how they do provinces, states, regions, etc. Specifically, I want the ability to create my own administrative divisions within an empire.

I know that this might sound a little micromanagement heavy, but the reality is that having your "states" from EU4 equivalent set in stone is really inaccurate and removes some of the peacetime empire customization that many players seem to be looking for in EU4. It also presumably affects what locations pops can move between, how religion spreads, how resources are distributed, and how much administration costs. I think the game would be substantially improved if players could choose the size and layout of their administrative divisions, and also change them mid game. The Ottomans' and Romans' administrative systems changed multiple times, for example. The US started with a bunch of tiny states, but then made a bunch of huge ones as they expanded west. This might also help with any parliamentary government set up, by consolidating states to set up bigger or smaller divisions for representation.

Is there any chance that players will be able to create their own administrative divisions?
 
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Is that blue stronghold in Tajikistan/Tibet Zoroastrian or Tengri?
 
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For each one that considers holy sites important, yes.
Are those Holy Sites will be static like in CK3 or dynamic like in Imperator? Aka will we be able to create new Holy Sites? Or if we play as the religious head, will we be able to hange which place we consider a Holy Site?
 
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Some of you need to take a step back, get a deep breath and think before you post. Post in a nice tone if you have suggestions, post simple questions instead of accusations, remember this is a GAME and not a "history of religions" app. Also actual people work on this, treat them like humans.

Now on-topic:
I love the detail work that has gone into this and can't wait to see it when it comes out. EU games have been a huge inspiration for me to read and learn more about ancient kingdoms, ancient religions and conflicts and I hope the next generation also gets to experience this.
 
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"Important to know is that in Project Caesar, you just do not send missionaries to your locations and eventually they have changed religion. Here conversion is a slower process, which relies on government activities and infrastructure"

- We expect the Spanish inquisition ;)
- Also with no missionaries how will I be able to fulfill my fantasy of sending my Jesuit missions all around the world becoming the master at the center of a web, bringing tithes of gold back church?
 
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Dice rerolls in a combat every x days in most of our games
So does that mean combat for Calvinism consists of entering battle, rolling a 1, and either retreating to try again or watching your troops die for the crime of being Swiss? Because that sounds like the most frustrating thing imaginable, at least with other religions you have a chance to roll better on the next tick.
 
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We're designing the religions based on two principles:

1. Historical, cultural, and religious accuracy -> 'Flavor immersion'.
2. Fun and interesting mechanics to play.

We're not thinking about 'meta religions', etc., just that they feel and play good and entertaining. Obviously, we'll focus more on polishing and balancing as the project comes closer to the future release, but that's not our current main focus.

That sounds great, I like the approach. Obviously you’ll have more to polish closer to release but I like that the focus is on accuracy for immersion because that’s what I enjoy most about playing Paradox games. The move to pops alone and plan to avoid unnecessary abstractions is a major improvement for the series in that regard.

I’ll be sure to bug you more when you release information about Catholicism’s mechanics ;)

Thanks for the reply
 
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As a Catholic, I have to stand up to my fellow Christian brothers and ask, where are the Puritans? Where are the Presbyterians? The Anabaptists? Will there be Methodists, Quackers or Baptists?
The term “Puritan” was originally a derisive term given by moderates and conservatives to those who wanted to take the Church in a hyper-Reformed direction. These Puritans did not like many aspects that were kept by the Church of England with the Elizabethan Religious settlement, such as bishops, a middle-way liturgical Book of Common Prayer, and fancy aesthetics. They were known, along with other radical sects (like the Anabaptists, Baptists, Congregationalists) as non-conformists because they did not conform to the established Church, and that led to many of them going off to “religious freedom” in the colonies.

Also the Quackers typo was rather funny.

The Quakers emerged out of the bloody English Civil War, which is why they were staunchly pacifist but they were a small sect. I don’t know if a minor Christian movement with a few thousand followers really deserves a fleshed out religion.

I do hope the dynamic between the Presbyterian Scotland and Episcopal/Anglican England is played out. Charles I tried to enforce the “Anglican” faith in Scotland which resulted in numerous wars, primarily against the Scottish Covenanters who defended the Scottish Presbyterian Church and allied with the English Puritans against Charles.

The Methodists were a much later development during the First Great Awakening, and originally just a movement within Anglicanism. The brothers who “founded” Methodism, John and Charles Wesley, were Anglican priests and never intended to form their own branch, they just wanted “Spiritual revival” in the Church of England. I don’t think that a denomination founded so late in the game needs to be included.
 
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