• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Talks #14 - 29th of May 2024

Welcome everyone to where we talk about our completely secret, not yet announced game. In today's Tinto Talks we will delve into a completely new feature.

A small reminder, this is very much a WiP, and nothing is final.

The core of this system was one of the first things I designed back in the spring of 2020, a feature that could be described as both a narrative and mechanical guide for the game. This is something that has been inspired by the Incident System from EU4, and also by the International Crisis mechanic of Victoria 2, but it is not really like any of those.

NEstiqKbud0wL7sM9ObfmWMQ22dYRdY50X5Xf1JowTW62l5_BI8tPZTbdBE5LOUEcp4ouiaU2ORALYgSoN9dNhFDM3q4sDfxQ16519VtOiltOEOUs6E9OIFerKb8DKuxrk_nvPCZftnB0igZwiE6Y7Y


Today is when we introduce our new Situation System.

So what is a “Situation” then? Good question. You could describe it as content that involves multiple countries over a period of time. In Project Caesar, we are using this feature to create a historical narrative that creates different experiences, as our goal is to have an immersive and varied experience for the player.

A Situation can have unique actions, events that trigger, and other types of unique content, and each of them will have its own UI and mapmode.

If a situation may involve or affect you, it will show with an alert, in the new color of purple!

Let's take a look at some of the situations we have in the game right now.

Black Death
This was the first situation we created, and it has been going through many revisions during the last four years.

-XaxeJWLErGyZ1uIEMzMCTXOKKF4a313QiYby_JEG2SM2VJVw6Gz9QB44Vs7ShAo_OkfOGAVGbDq6hPQYQmOECNtf_mb5A4T0bQqIzU_zMUbLyvEYRiQMxfrImwwoyvmbrlXHVTZcBIRIZQjz8-cOno

Black death can be 1346, random or off, and origin can be historical or random.

Usually, it will happen from 1346, as the Bubonic Plague appears somewhere in Central Asia and starts spreading through the old world, killing 40-60% of the population of the affected areas.

It spreads through adjacencies, moving armies, or through trade. There are ways you can attempt to alleviate this, but the efficiency of it is low, and the cost is high. You can try to isolate your court, expel the sick, blame minorities, and other very efficient ways to deal with the problem.

6iCwY8FdImU5oafjrWJnQ6LwAvDhPE4x0TCcyT-Yb5lNYxI7yxnM0NYWUCjjjQU2wbHaXf2R-ZKIWOpi3mEVIQB_oC9p_B9JSef5s8pDRALDaJp9IXyqkuXhN5vw_nIMIcu_9UzNF6nHY_6-3qenujo

Slowly spreading centrally, but some traders have already taken it into Italy...


Italian Wars
In the Age of Discovery, this is probably the most important situation for anyone in Western Europe. It is about control over Italy and will happen as soon as a French or Iberian Major Power or the Emperor declares war on an Italian Power.


There will be up to six different leagues that will fight over control of Italy. There is a French league, an Iberian league, the Emperor's league, and up to 3 Italian leagues. The first two will dynamically select their leaders based on strength calculations.

If one league gets hegemony over Italy, i.e. owning over 60% of the region either through conquest or diplomacy, then they will win. The Italians can also win by making sure the foreign leagues are destroyed through a special peace deal.

Leagues can be abandoned and anyone owning locations in Italy can join one of them.

The situation allows enemies and rivals of foreign league leaders to intervene and assist the defending Italians and it also grants access to unique interactions in order to send aid of any kind, attract cheaper condottieri and even create a new Italian league.

wM45LY6Ss0cjAShI3Oyo89Fr99sC5LYwTOmgTyBgfofucUR3MSPUKnhzCfzlabHc0kScmb8t5fZwZF3QVmzETJu3Ay97PmBiyVBPRzpajHfwAVAetl5pnoXNXOa16y9fLJCEx3YQQUodvOZy9Kf8c-E

This is how the situation would look if it fired in 1337 if Austria was to be the Holy Roman Emperor and Aragon was the dominant power in Iberia with vested interests in Italy.

Red Turban Rebellions
This is rather likely to happen as soon as the Yuan Empire ends up at low stability.

It will create an international organization called The Red Turbans, which will get a lot of rebel countries.

The situation can happen to Yuán after 1350 if their stability drops below 25 while also either of their estates is not satisfied. The requirements are harsh, but once you reach the Age of Discovery you have avoided the situation.

With that being said, the situation will most likely fire in a playthrough. During this period, the Red Turban Rebels will spawn as an international organization which is in direct opposition to the Huángdì, the Chinese emperor. While the situation is going on, events will pop up that force Yuán to release historical Chinese tags in their historical order (so the first Sòng is released, then Wú, then Tiānwán, etc.), which join the IO and immediately declare their own, independent war on Yuan.

Each rebel nation is playable when it spawns, and they can wage war with each other too.

The countries spawned during this situation have a custom loyalty value which describes how, well, loyal they are to Yuán which goes from -100 to 100 and grows or shrinks depending on their opinion of Yuán. Most rebel nations will start at -100 as they actively fought against Yuan. However, some nations spawned through the situation represent the Mongolian generals who gained a lot of autonomy, but were still fighting for Yuán’s cause. They would spawn with +50 Loyalty. If any rebel country reaches more than 0 loyalty, they will automatically leave the Red Turban Rebels IO.

In order to end the situation as Yuán, you have to regain internal stability, but also ensure that the Red Turban Rebels have no members left anymore after 20 years of the start of the situation. All states spawned through the situation with over 50 loyalty will then automatically be annexed by Yuán.

On the other hand, the situation also ends once any rebel tag owns the majority of China (around 70%) of all the locations there. If that happens the rebel tag which fulfills this requirement will assume the Imperial Throne and take over the tag of China.

The situation unlocks special diplomatic actions for Yuán and the rebels alike. Yuán can grant titles to any released state that is not at war with it, giving a significant loyalty and opinion boost in exchange for a hefty fee. They can also negotiate with local rebellions which decreases the process for a rebellion to break out and they can call loyalist countries (those with +50 loyalty) to their wars against the Red Turban Rebels. Meanwhile, the rebel states have a special cb against Yuan and other rebel states with a vastly reduced warscore cost for Chinese locations. They also get access to an action that allows them to rein in a conquered area, greatly reducing the local integration speed.

GPiIOcEL1DBRL7wzcIRz9vQN9nN86TqDSM08mGXXLK9P56gJtUuVQmeYwLWopGKTJN-nInRg6DKlUFdMLn1or9yO4L6r5BCvaGHiZ3lDbxxmleSLN_6RG4exb9MdUHDmt1Ez0xe8L64zr-4b_PFNMho

Green are your loyal servants, orange are the rebels, red is the strongest of the rebels.

Other situations include things like the Western Schism, the Hundred Years War & Sengoku Jidai. We will talk more about those in future Tinto Talks.

If you have a suggestion of what you think would be an important historical event that should be a situation, then please post them here!

Next week though, we will talk about something that many people have asked for repeatedly.
 
  • 365Love
  • 225Like
  • 8
  • 7
  • 6
Reactions:
So the Red Turban situation let's you play as a China with ethnic Chinese leadership, but it's impossible to do so from game start (1337) right? Too bad if so, but understandable if that's what's historical
 
After the black death and many Ottoman invasions, the kingdom of Hungary was quite depopulated. After that, kings invited many people to settle in the kingdom. That is why there were so many Germans (and Walachians in the location of Slovakia) and even pure German towns. Could this be a situation? If your tag has experienced depopulation (plague, war, other), you can invite people from other countries, and those countries will try to block them, or negotiate with you some deal.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Some important situation ideas I can think of for the Middle East are: The Timurid (Islamic) Renaissance which comes shortly after Timur establishes the Timurid Empire. The rise of the Islamic Gunpowder Empires (Ottomans, Safavids and Mughals) which succeed the Timurids.

Rise of the Safavids, or any other Shia and/or Iranian revival event, especially regarding the Shia Qizilbash Turkomen tribes, is pretty important since they basically revived Iranian culture. I believe the Safavids are the first Iranian ruled Empire to unite Iran since the Sassanids fell.

These events are more to consolidate the Middle East, since without these events the Middle East will remain fractured post Mongol invasion. The situation could trigger if certain Islamic powers in the Middle East, Anatolia, Iran or Central Asia get too powerful.
 
Last edited:
In Yuan dynasty period, Beijing was actually titled as DaDu(大都), respectively stands for 'Great' and 'Capital'
BTW, Beijing, literally means Northern Captial, was firstly titled by the 3rd emperor of Ming dynasty, next to Yuan. And in the gap time between Dadu and Beijing, this city was titled as Beiping, literally means Northern Recaptured(or Peace).
 
  • 3
Reactions:
The Black Death Origin "Random" option will start the outbreak somewhere in Europe or Asia. So it could happen in Lisbon or Kyoto, but not Tenochtitlan.
Strange to exclude (at least parts of) Africa, since the Justinian Plague probably originated in Ethiopia, and there's no real reason to distinguish between the two sides of the Mediterranean
I'm assuming it's a typo ?
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
The fall of the Mali and Songhai empires should definitely have appropriate situations. Both were vast decentralised empires and as with yuan if stability is too low they'd go through something akin to the Mali disaster in eu4.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Will we get a Sunset Invasion situation? And will it be togglable or mandatory?
 
No disrespect to the devs, but I think it's the safer choice to focus on situations from actual history that people are familiar with, than come up with a large amount of fantasy situations that are valid in certain circumstances.
(Johan is answering the following post: "Also, will there be situations that are dynamically created?") No.

In the long run up to release I completely and totally understand focusing on historical content. It's what your players connect most with, and it's what your players want.

Looking forward, your regional, cultural , and religious DLCs will be stronger and more comprehensive if you implement mechanics that also provide content for the nations interacting with the focused-upon area. If you release a DLC for the Indus, crafting dynamic situations that can trigger whenever any across-the-seas power starts colonising India provides potential content for countless nations, and not just the ones in India.

Situations are awesome. Dynamic situations would be even better. Can we at least mod them in?
 
I personnaly get your point, and I very much agree with it. But by doing that, wouldn't it be taking the risk that the AI ALWAYS fall in rebellion at a certain point, and will never be able to expand further than the limit of the rebellion ? Kinda like in Victoria 3, AI had sooo much revolution, everytime. I am not a developer and I have absolutely no idea how to handle those type of things, I am just talking by taking into account my experience in other games.
And while I would absolutely be for a punishment for big empire that are not stable, I don't want to see a map where AI would not be able to expand further than a certain point because they would fall in rebellion over and over

I don't see why that would be the case. You can easily adjust the trigger conditions to increase/decrease the likelihood of it happening (ie: require stability to be -50 instead of -25, or add additional requirements around size/control/MTTH/etc...).

Ultimately large centrallized empires should be difficult to maintain, not just due to low control, but that low control should result in "independence movements" and other controlled and uncontrolled "tag releases".

The goal here would be to be able to:
  1. Accurately simulate certain common and uncommon situation
  2. provide those situations with relevant historical flavor
I think the separating of mechanical and thematic systems in the overall situation system would really help here, since it would give a built in way to make 2 types of DLC:
  • Major DLC - Includes new mechanical situation systems
  • Minor DLC - Includes only new Thematic situations

I could see a place where if you want to provide some additional flavor to 5 or 6 tags in a region, where you simply add a dozen or so historically relevant thematic situations for existing mechanical situations. That would be an easy way to make an EU4 style immersion pack, without having to add any major mechanics or having major development overhead.

The players for those tags would be happy because now they aren't bland flavorless tags and regions, while devs and other uninterested players wouldn't have to spend a lot of time and development effort making them.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Chinese tone marks is such an eyesore. I hope they get removed in the release build.

中国地名的声调太碍眼了,这边希望制作组在正式版里拿掉呢。
I absolutely like it. It's a kinda immersive factor of China:oops:

咱们汉语就有声调啊, 玩英文版有声调感觉会更接近汉语, 而且大多数中国人直接玩中文
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I think, it would be better to create mechanics that allowed places such as Poland or Milan to have smaller (but still substantial) death tolls. E.g. some religious groups (for example Jews or Muslims) should have smaller death rates, due to higher hygiene standards in these groups; towns, cities and locations with high population should be more affected by the disease; introducing different polices such as lockdowns or quarantines and limitation of internal and external trade, should on the other hand, lower fatalities, and effectiveness of these polices could be also affected by the control over a location, so that it would be easier to implement them in city-states.
Hi Johan. I'm from Poland and would like to ask if places like city of Milan(in which 'only' 15k died out of 100k) or Kingdom Of Poland will have some kind of debuffs for the plague?

Historically Black Death helped Poland to equal the power balance to their neighbours. As before 1337 Poland was nearly carved up by Bohemia and Teutons in a war and since 1320 it was a country playing on legendary dificulty.
 
Diseases affect multiple countries and regions, raising curiosity about whether there will also be ecological disasters or environmental changes.

An example of such a change is the Little Ice Age (LIA), a period from roughly the 16th to the 19th century (some argue it began in the 14th century) characterized by lower temperatures. This cooling period impacted agricultural yields and resulted in longer winters. However, people adapted; boats were equipped with skates, and fairs were held on frozen rivers. Militarily, the Swedish army could cross the frozen strait to attack Copenhagen, and the Netherlands' defensive tactic of flooding rivers (the "waterlinie") was compromised when the French army crossed frozen rivers in the winters of 1794-95, even the Dutch fleet was frozen in ice.

Disasters tend to have more immediate impacts, but a single disaster could affect multiple years of harvest due to the vulnerability of early modern and medieval food production. An example is the St. Elizabeth's Flood of 1421, which affected a large area of the North Sea, from the Netherlands to Denmark. Several dikes in the Netherlands broke, flooding polders and swallowing entire villages.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I don't see why that would be the case. You can easily adjust the trigger conditions to increase/decrease the likelihood of it happening (ie: require stability to be -50 instead of -25, or add additional requirements around size/control/MTTH/etc...).

Ultimately large centrallized empires should be difficult to maintain, not just due to low control, but that low control should result in "independence movements" and other controlled and uncontrolled "tag releases".

The goal here would be to be able to:
  1. Accurately simulate certain common and uncommon situation
  2. provide those situations with relevant historical flavor
I think the separating of mechanical and thematic systems in the overall situation system would really help here, since it would give a built in way to make 2 types of DLC:
  • Major DLC - Includes new mechanical situation systems
  • Minor DLC - Includes only new Thematic situations

I could see a place where if you want to provide some additional flavor to 5 or 6 tags in a region, where you simply add a dozen or so historically relevant thematic situations for existing mechanical situations. That would be an easy way to make an EU4 style immersion pack, without having to add any major mechanics or having major development overhead.

The players for those tags would be happy because now they aren't bland flavorless tags and regions, while devs and other uninterested players wouldn't have to spend a lot of time and development effort making them.
Aha, I think minor DLCs here will be DLCs, which are a part of flavour DLCs. As for Major DLCs, it's probably free updates for big versions like 1.5 or 2.0...
 
When I first heard about situations I thought of decadence. However you've already made it clear that wouldn't fall under the situation umbrella. So this question might be better suited to a future Tinto Talk...

Will decadence be a disaster any country can fall into as opposed to it only being an Ottoman thing in EU4?
 
Is the Protestant reformation or the 30 years war a situtation?

How moddable is the system? The possibilities are endless.

both are in, and the system is entirely made in script, so 100% moddable.
 
  • 25Love
  • 17Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Will the Northern and Southern court/Nanboku-chō period be a situation in Japan? It seems like a likely candidate that would be active from the game's start, unless it's handled through other means.

yeah, its in
 
  • 34Like
  • 9Love
  • 3
Reactions:
A more under the hood question: Since Situations (and International organizations) are not hard coded and very variable, how to you ensure the AI is able to navigate their custom mechanics effectively to make the best of them, instead of flailing semi-randomly?

The AI can look at the building blocks we use. Its a very powerful system in the core.
 
  • 31Like
  • 9Love
  • 7
Reactions: