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Tinto Talks #15 - June 5th 2024

Welcome to the 15th Tinto Talks, where we ask for feedback on our extremely crazily top secret game which has the codename Project Caesar.

One thing that many have asked for has been a more in-depth dynastical gameplay, so here it is.

Characters
Before we delve into the dynamics of dynastic gameplay, we must first talk about their building blocks, the characters.

european (1).jpg


Here is a European King with an early 18th century background.

While not copying the Crusader Kings mechanics, a Character in Project Caesar is a bit more alive than in let's say EU4. A character is born, lives, and eventually dies.

Every character has Administrative, Diplomatic and Military Attributes ranging from 0-100. Of course, these attributes will not add any sort of mana, but they will impact how well the character will perform certain roles. One example is that the diplomatic ability of an admiral impacts the morale of the navy he leads.

Newborn characters start with 0, but that grows until they are adults depending on what childhood trait they have. You can also assign your rulers’ children and grandchildren a specific education during their childhood

gifted.png

This is a trait that when on the heir of the player it increases the chance of hunting accidents by 200%.

Characters ruling a country will gain up to 3 traits, depending on how long they have ruled.
They are gained while ruling a country. Characters that are generals or admirals will also get traits after combat. There are also unique traits for characters that are REDACTED or OTHER_SECRET_THING.

Characters also have a culture they come from, a religion they follow, they keep track of where they were born, and where they currently are living. They belong to an estate, which for most characters tends to be the nobles estate.

Many characters will have a father and/or a mother as well. For some historical characters at the start of the game that will not necessarily be true.

The number of spouse(s) a character can have depends on religions and laws, but the number of children they get depends more on the fertility of the parents.

So what can you do with characters? Well, this is not Crusader Kings, so the characters themselves are not as important, and there are no character specific events like in Imperator either. In this game, characters are tools to be used for the greater good. If that means marrying off your daughter to secure an alliance with France, then that's what you have to do. You can arrange marriages in your country, send less useful characters into convents, ennoble great people, and much more.
ashanti (1).jpg


This is an African ruler, in his throne room, which while beautiful, is just a background image…


Speaking of marriages, royal marriages in Project Caesar are not just sending a diplomat, here it is far more limited, as you have to actually marry real characters, and often this is a vital action. If you can’t arrange a royal marriage with a country of enough prestige, that has a young consort, you may be forced to marry a local noble from your country, or worse, even a lowborn.

A Royal Marriage between two rulers will immediately form a union between those two countries. Every country has its own inheritance laws, which if they differ, may cause a Union to break, as the rulers would be different. This is probably not the audience where I need to explain the difference between Salic Law and Semi-Salic Law right?


bjälbo.png

And who was the founder of this dynasty?

Dynasties are important, as they impact diplomacy in direct and indirect ways. As some inheritance laws prefer their own dynasty, and having the same dynasty can improve opinions between countries.


As in almost all previous GSG, the game will keep track of who has ruled that country before, just so you can go back and admire them. We have tried to get in as much history as possible here, even if my heathen content designers refuse to have Odin as the original King of Sweden!

ruler_history.png

Of course regnal numbering and actual names depend on many different things..


Stay tuned, next week we’ll be back and we will then talk about how the cabinet will work.
 

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Wait did I read it right? If I (france) marry of one of the daughters of the king of France to, say, the duke of Austria (who is currently unmarried) I get a union over Austria??
Now I understand unions are a little less powerful in this game, but to me a union is when two coutries end up with the same ruler(s), take Charles V, Isabella of Castille and Ferdinand of Aragon, or literally the entire history of the Habsburgs.
I don't think that just because a member of the french royal family is the duchess of Austria, there should be a union between the two countries, it doesn't seem to me like the same situation.
Now it would be cool if royal marriages rappresented a powerful but risky diplomatic tool: you basically exchange a potential claim on your throne for an alliance. It could even be complemented by a little espionage: say the duke of Austria wants the french crown; he might be able to get it by manipulating the french succession: oh no the second oldest male son of the french king died! Oh no so did the oldest daughter! Let's hope nothing happens to the eldest son or the crown would technically go to the duchess of Austria! (Now I don't know the succession laws in France at the time but you get the picture)

TL;DR: Royal marriages shouldn't immediatly form a union (unless two rulers marry); they should be a tool to form a strong alliance (as long as the marriage holds) and to have the chance to get your dynasty (or potentially even your own ruler) on the other throne.
It says "Royal Marriage between two rulers". So it's a situation like a marriage between Jadwiga, king of Poland, and Jogaila, grand duke of Lithuania, creating a union. Marring a daughter of a king doesn't create a union between countries, just alliance.
 
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Will we be able to keep and integrate our vasalas generals and advisors once we annex them? I've always thought that loosing a 3 star opm vasal generam is such a waste of potential.
 
Thank you!! God I was aching for portraits so much.

I couldn't bear the bland and empty menus of EU4 and some other Paradox games of the previous generation. It was more appealing and inspiring to read an academic article on history than to go through those menu. And I'm not dunking on the devs of the time, I just think that keeping with that 'aesthetic' would've terribly wasteful, when the period the game takes place has such beautiful attires, paintings and structures.

It will make the game so much easier on the eyes!

Now I'm really interested into seeing Cabinets next week!!
And also music, when the time arrives of course. Songs of Regency has been on my playlists for such a time now, just amazing. I am sure the music of Project Caesar will be awesome as well.
 
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Will there be some events related to dynasties?
F.e. if one ruler wont have a legitimate heir, will there be an event to offer crown to other dynasty members ( who might also be ruling somewhere)
Such things hsppened historicaly:
Casmir the 3rd, who is ruling Poland in start date, was the last King of Poland from Piast dynasty- he had male heirs, so he signed a 'survive pact' with his nephew -> Louis I of Hungary leading to personal union between Hungary and Poland...
Unfortunately Louis didnt have sons himself, so his death broke the union, but he managed to secure future for his daughters: Mary inherited Hungarian crown, while Jadwiga was crowned as King of Poland...(which later lead to union between Poland and Lithuania and eventualy lead yo forming PLC)
Question is: will there be a possibility for similiar 'pacts' or other type of dynamic unions to happen ( ofc as an option for player to choose, maybe leading to nobles rebelling, if they oppose what player has chosen...)
 
Their style kinda bug me out, as it seems historical characters use contemporary to the current ruler clothes, but that may be a feature, not a bug

And I surely love the 3D here
It’s due to the low amount of content produced so far.
 
I see The Principality of Muzaka still has not been added. It would really make my day if I can at least get any clear verification that it will (or even will not if you for some reason believe it shouldn't) exist.
 
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It’s due to the low amount of content produced so far.
No offence. In some way I even like it. It gives me some "Roman legioners in medieval clothes" medieval illustration vibe, when artists not always had enough reference to depict the details correctly
 
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Great, I'm loving all these Tinto talks.

Just one thing, the ruling House of the Crown of Aragon was not called "di Aragó", but "de Barcelona" (Casal de Barcelona, to be precise). The kings were originally counts of Barcelona, from where they got the name. In any case, "di" isn't original to the Catalan language.
 
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I LOVE THE COLOR OF PIAST DYNASTY!!!!! PLEASE DON'T CHANGE IT. LIGHT BLUE IS AWESOME!!!!

CHAD LIGHT BLUE COLOR>>>>>>>>> SAD VIRGIN REDDISH UGLY COLOR



ON THE OTHER HAND:
I WANT JUST TO REMIND THAT BETTER COLOR FOR POLAND IS WHITE - BECAUSE WE HAVE WHITE EAGLE (OUR SYMBOL) AND RED COLOR IS ONLY BACKGROUND.
MAYBE IT'S TIME TO SEE HOW POLAND WILL LOOKS LIKE WHEN IT'S WHITE? YOU CHANGED IN EU4 COLOR OF PORTUGAL, I KNOW YOU CAN CHANGE COLOR OF POLAND. <3

LOVE YOU!!!
 
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Will (as inevitably this has to be asked given what European royals were/are like) the family trees show 'circular' descent or will characters just appear multiple times from different branches like in CK3?
 
I LOVE THE COLOR OF PIAST DYNASTY!!!!! PLEASE DON'T CHANGE IT. LIGHT BLUE IS AWESOME!!!!

CHAD LIGHT BLUE COLOR>>>>>>>>> SAD VIRGIN REDDISH UGLY COLOR



ON THE OTHER HAND:
I WANT JUST TO REMIND THAT BETTER COLOR FOR POLAND IS WHITE - BECAUSE WE HAVE WHITE EAGLE (OUR SYMBOL) AND RED COLOR IS ONLY BACKGROUND.
MAYBE IT'S TIME TO SEE HOW POLAND WILL LOOKS LIKE WHEN IT'S WHITE? YOU CHANGED IN EU4 COLOR OF PORTUGAL, I KNOW YOU CAN CHANGE COLOR OF POLAND. <3

LOVE YOU!!!
you mean baby blue? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_blue
 
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I'm really concenrd about the naming of the Mamluks, you wouldn't call the Sultan, one of the most powerful men in the world, a Mamluk Sultan (a Slave Sultan), would you?
It was called Sultanate of Egypt and the Levant, or Sultanate of Egypt for short
The Mamluk state was actually two completly separate states: the Bahriyya Mamluks 1250-1382 and the Burjiya Mamluks 1382-1798.
Also something always bothered me in eu4 in that the Ottomans and the Mamluks had very good relations, with the exception of the two wars of 1485-1491 and 1516-1517, to the point that the Mamluks continued to rule Egypt for the Ottomans after the second war.
 
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How does this work for republics? Does the country have an existing set of character milling about that can be electoral candidates, or is a new character with their own dynasty generated whenever an election replaces the ruler? I see the Teutonic Order has a dynasty, though I can't fully make out the letters.

Why is Denmark without a dynasty? Are they in rebellion like Scotland is?
From 1332 to 1340 there was no Danish Kingdom. The Lands were under military rule and mortgaged to German counts, Scania was sold to Sweden.
 
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I like the adaption of CK3 mechanics.
The upbringing of the heir to the throne was always a matter of state, depending on the power of the monarch more and more had their fingers in it.
Of course sometimes the upbringing got it wrong or had unintended consequences, see Frederick the Great
 
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I'm really concenrd about the naming of the Mamluks, you wouldn't call the Sultan, one of the most powerful men in the world, a Mamluk Sultan (a Slave Sultan), would you?
It was called Sultanate of Egypt and the Levant, or Sultanate of Egypt for short
The Mamluk state was actually two completly separate states: the Bahriyya Mamluks 1250-1382 and the Burjiya Mamluks 1382-1798.
Also something always bothered me in eu4 in that the Ottomans and the Mamluks had very good relations, with the exception of the two wars of 1485-1491 and 1516-1517, to the point that the Mamluks continued to rule Egypt for the Ottomans after the second war.
Unrelatedly, European (Portuguese) expansion in the Indian Ocean contributed to their fall by affecting trade
 
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In Imperator a late game problem that you can run into with a large enough empire is that you start to run out of options for characters to fill positions. Something that breaks immersion when you realistically have hundreds if not thousands of noble pops of your culture around the empire but only around 100-200 characters of which some portion is female and children. With potentially over a hundred positions to fill, from governorships, senate positions, legates for legions and so on. This is also very tedious micromanaging to try and keep the population of characters up, alive and assigned.

Since this game will likely reach a stage of vast empires. Is this something that can become a problem in Project Caesar at the moment or is there reasons why this might not be a problem at all? (Both the micromanagement of many characters and the lack of characters to fill positions.)
 
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Not a fan of the 3d Character portraits, I'd rather there be no portraits for kings or a 2d artstyle like EU4. The 3D looks creepy and I know it's WIP but the GUI looks kinda outdated in a way too
 
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