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Tinto Talks #16 - 12th of June 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, you know, the happy Wednesday, where we talk about the top secret and very much unannounced game we refer to as Project Caesar. Today we’ll talk about another rather new, and more or less, unique system.

The Cabinet is one of the core functionalities in the game, covering areas which in previous games have been handled by envoys or mana, or may not have scaled nicely. The Cabinet in Project Caesar is a core part of many aspects of the game.


Last week we talked about characters, and we inferred roles like generals, admirals, rulers and regents. We also mentioned two roles we were not ready to talk about as well. Being in a cabinet, while being a good use of a character is NOT one of those roles, so you still have two other things to look forward to regarding characters.

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Can you trust Sir Robert???

The size of your cabinet varies depending on several factors, the most important though, is how advanced your country is. At the start of the game, most countries will have a cabinet size of two, while every age will add at least one. Some government reforms or laws may also grant a bigger cabinet size, for some other drawbacks.

Who you pick for your cabinet matters as well, as each cabinet member from an estate gives +10% power to that estate. And it may not always be ideal to have a cabinet member of the wrong religion or bad culture, no matter how great they are. One example, includes the fact that the Pope might be upset if you employ an heretic as a Catholic ruler.

There are currently 45 different actions that can be assigned to a cabinet position, and more are added as the game develops. Some of these are always available, some require more advances, and some are unique that only a few have access to. Each action belongs to one of three categories, administrative, diplomatic or military, which determines which attribute is used for it.

Some actions impact the entire country, and some impact a province.

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Increasing control in a single province may be good, but it's but a single province…



How efficient is a cabinet action then? The relevant attribute from the ruler and the cabinet member has a big impact, but your societal values, laws, reforms and even some estate privileges can affect it. Not to mention your crown power.


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If you want people to leave Stockholm, winter is not enough.

Speaking of migration, next week we will talk more in detail about how the pops function when it comes to migration, growth, how they change, and what they need.
 
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Johan said:
only fits when you have a town and/or city.
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Not really: low urbanization means people live in rural areas, high urbanization means people live in towns/cities. It is not about number of inhabitants, rather about concentration of settlements. In Project Caesar can a rural location have 100 development? It would be strange in my opinion if it could - but then the word "infrastructure" better corresponds to the meaning.

Both "infrastructure" and "urbanization" feels more fit for what "development" represent (in my very humble opinion obviously). And development has a lot of negative connotation for many current EU4 players...
 
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Testerian2 said:
Not really: low urbanization means people live in rural areas, high urbanization means people live in towns/cities. It is not about number of inhabitants, rather about concentration of settlements.
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And that would be represented by having a larger number of cities/towns compared to rural locations.
 
I know the loyalty mechanic is scrapped, and I guess it is for the better. But I still wonder if there will be some sort of interaction between estates and the characters?

Perhaps not as strict as in Vic 3 where every character is directly linked to an estate, but rather with some character having a trait "Hated by X Estate" or "Loved by X Estate" which would then affect an estate loyalty when the character is given an important position. So we can face the same dillema King Charles did with William Laud.
 
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I'm a big fan of how the 3d characters are being used. I know it's not the main focus of this game, but for me I find it immersive in say CK3 seeing the characters age up as the years go by. Adds a bit of value to generals and councillors etc. And helps show the passage of time.

like say I'm being attacked by the same fleet it becomes more of a not this guy again. Opposed to EU4 where its just another fleet.
 
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We don't want 3D animated character models! They look bad in all games: vic3 ck3 and now in project caesar! :mad: I'd much rather have atmospheric 2D portraits that make character look like a serious, professional ruler instead of looking like a play-doh doll, capable of goofyness only! :mad:
 
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"We don't want 3D animated characters models." Since when did you speak for the entire player base? I prefer them simply because I find it more immersive as they look more diverse and I like how they age through the years.

But of course you are entitled to your opinion.
 
Kroggies said:
"We don't want 3D animated characters models." Since when did you speak for the entire player base? I prefer them simply because I find it more immersive as they look more diverse and I like how they age through the years.

But of course you are entitled to your opinion.
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CK2 or imperator characters age as well and are immersive without looking goofymaxx mobile game-ish. look them up. GSGs are not animal crossing! :mad:

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Somehow they managed to make characters look serious for once in imperator, but in project caesar thay are goofy not-serious again. :(


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Now who of these look like rulers, and who like cosplayers? Its sad that the newer the game, the worse the characters.
 
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A Pink Duck said:
That's not really accurate though. The USA for example, would be unfathomably poorer and less developed if it was 50 totally independent states.

I understand why we may not want that type of thing in a game. But we should acknowledge the fact that larger states are often more effective at developing their country.
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IIRC the United States didn't exist in 1337, nor did they exist for most of the (presumed) length of the game, really
 
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I am very interested to see how vassals work. Are they like vassals in EU4? France has a very long list of vassals, England a shorter. I am quite sure you could integrate them via one way or another.
 
Off topic, but I hope the migration system isn't like that in Victoria 3. Obviously mass immigration like we see today and in the 1800s wasn't happening during project caesar's timeline but i liked that in victoria 2 you could actually get migratns from more than like one place at a time. Its far more reaslitic (and more immersive) if in addition to all the irish migrating because of the potato famine you also get say some germans, french, spaniards, norwegians, italians and the like, but with Victoria 3 if you aren't in the same market, unless there's a mass migration target you will never get immigrants from other countries. So as Mexico unless i become a migration target (which is pretty rare since in my experience you might get one every 20-30 years or so, if you're lucky) I will literally never get any immigrants, which is just silly. Please, make migration like it is in victoria 2, but maybe you could salvage some of the good bits of vic3's system, say by allowing a migration target system, but still allowing normal migration ("normal" as in what you see with vic3's intramarket migration) between countries not in the same market.
 
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Johan said:
Yes. they will be the same.
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I was thinking about this and got an idea: Maybe You could separate cabinet size from the number of actions state can do at once.
So big empire would be able to nominate 2 more people for the cabinet - but still only two actions at the time.

Obviously, switching actions would not cost stability IF person stays in the cabinet.

That way empires (and maybe rich or developed countries like Venetia?) would have bigger and much more expensive cabinet, and ability to switch advisors - but still not able to do much more.

At the same time they would got problems: moneysink, stronger estates (more people in the cabinet).
 
Johan said:
Think 8-10 is the max size we aim for.
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This overall looks really cool - thanks a lot.

That said, with no automation this seems like it could become rather repetitive. In the later game I have to replace and reassign each of my 10 cabinet members every time they die?
That seems like something that involves relatively minimal engaging decision making ie: "diplomat to Austria died, sort by highest dip score, assign to Austria, repeat every time they die"

What am I missing here, are there more things that require you to really think about each appointment? I see it empowers the estate but that seems to be only if they are the head of cabinet right?

That aside, the "your cabinet member died" popup having a "reappoint similar" option that picks a similar character and assigns them to the same job would be nice.
 
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CountCristo said:
That aside, the "your cabinet member died" popup having a "reappoint similar" option that picks a similar character and assigns them to the same job would be nice.
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"Cabinet member (name) who was our (position) has died. Here are some suggestions for a successor."

1-x buttons with names and positions of characters. x could be 3 or something else, just something that's in line with how many buttons the UI gives in similar situations. As the position that was just vacated can be more important than ones currently occupied, the replacement suggestions should also include characters that are currently occupied, but also at least one that's not. So, the algo chooses x characters with best stats, like AI would. If there are several occupied characters that have similar stats and occupy identical positions*, drop extras. If all characters are occupied, drop the last one and replace with best one that is not, so there's at least one unoccupied character on the list. If unoccupied characters' stats are close to each other, drop extras. So if there's only one clear choice and he's unoccupied, there's a suggestion list of only one, but in other cases there can be more suggestions.

* Identical means truly identical, general in command of one army is not in identical position to general commanding another. But if it's possible to have eg several tax officials, all stationed in the court, each providing +1% taxes countrywide, they're in identical positions. Of course, in the identical positions case, those occupying a position identical to the one that's free should not be on the list. But there should be a mention "We already have x characters doing that job, providing a total bonus of y%", with a list of them as a tooltip.

The algo becomes more complex if there's more than one parameter to consider, eg characters with better stats cost more. Then instead of suggesting the best characters, it should suggest both good ones and cheap ones. And more complexity is added if there are several character stats relevant to handling the position, eg a general may be good at attacking and poor at defending or vice versa. Perhaps a tax official has one stat affecting how much tax he collects and another affecting how much unrest he generates.

However the suggestions go, under the suggestion buttons there must be a View all candidates button. But if there are too many suggestions, then we return to CountCristo's suggestion, and need a "I don't care, just pick someone" button. And a setting to have all appointments done automatically and no death popups at all.

Both in the popup, and in the View all window, occupied and unoccupied characters should be differentiated from each other not only by text with the current title of the occupied ones, but also by differently colored buttons. Perhaps also a confirmation popup "Are you sure you want to remove (character name) from position a for position b". Then again, there should also be an option not to have such confirmation popups.
 
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Agreed. Age of History 3 has some awesome character 2D art (GenAI not withstanding), and it shows how much better it fits the theme of the era. Keep the 3D stuff in CK3, please.
 
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