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Tinto Talks #24 - 7th of August 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the Happy Wednesday where we spill the secrets about our entirely super secret, nobody will ever guess its name, game, which we refer to as Project Caesar.

Today we will delve into a lot of naval related aspects, when we talk about everything from Maritime Presence to Naval Combat.

Importance of Maritime Presence
First of all, we need to get back to the importance of maritime presence and naval capacity in Project Caesar. Before you can get advanced road networks through your country, your proximity propagation is much faster through places where you have maritime presence. Any seazone where you have no maritime presence OR a location without any road network costs about 40 ‘proximity’ to traverse through, which basically means you can not propagate any control more than 3 locations away. Of course, there are things that impact your proximity costs per location, like topography, vegetation, development and societal values as well.

proximity_map.png

The heartland has some access, but the coasts are the most important to us..

For a coastal seazone, if you have 100% maritime presence, the base cost is 5 per location. If you have less than 100% maritime presence it will scale the price accordingly. So at 33% maritime presence, and you have no other modifiers, it would cost 0.33*5 + 0.67*40, i.e. about 28.45.

Lakes and Major Rivers are always considered to be 100% maritime presence sea zones for proximity calculations and market access calculations.

proximity_kalmar.png

Why is the seazone outside Stockholm called 'Trälhavet'?

As you can see here, tracing the proximity out from Kalmar to the seazone of Kalmar Sund is a bit costly, as going from land to sea through a port has a higher base cost. This is severely reduced by the infrastructure and development you have built up in that location, as well as the natural harbor attributes that location has.

Natural Harbors
This is something new for this game that we have not done before. With so many locations, and such granularity, and mechanics emphasizing a deeper simulation, we had to start treating places differently, as there is a reason why certain places on the map are better suited as ports than others. This also explains why certain locations grew to be important places in history over others.

map_of_harbors.png

The brighter the green the better the harbor can be..

Of course, you can improve the harbor suitability of a location by building certain infrastructure, so even if the location you want to build up lacks the natural benefits, it can still be built up, even if it is more costly to do so as well.

The Harbor Suitability of a location has a significant impact on the trade and proximity calculations, and also impacts how quickly armies can be loaded or unloaded from the location.

bristol_useful.png

Bristol has its uses. The main question though, Rovers or City?


Shipbuilding
One of the disadvantages of playing a naval nation, in other games we’ve made, was the simple fact that unless you had a large coastline you could not compete, no matter how good the coastal locations you had were. One of the reasons was the simple fact that you could only build a ship at a time, and if you wanted to recruit a regiment, you couldn’t.

In Project Caesar this has changed, first of all, there are three different construction queues in a location. First there is the civil one for buildings, RGO’s, and all other non-military oriented things you can do in a location. Secondly we have the army based queue, and finally, we have the naval based queue, so you can recruit regiments at the same time that you build ships in a location.

We also added the concept of parallel ship building in a location, where buildings can unlock additional shipbuilding slots in a location, where at the end of the game you can build close to twenty ships at the same time in the same shipyard, with all the related advances and other stuff unlocked.


venetian_arsenal.png

This is a unique building that Venice has in its capital that increases the parallel capacity of shipbuilding by 4.


Blockades
One of the most powerful abilities that you can do during a war is blockading another nation's coast. The immediate impact is a reduction of food production, maximum control and making trades being more costly and likely to reroute. There is also the fact that development growth is severely slowed, the decline of prosperity and a dramatic reduction of your maritime presence.

As some say, an image tells you more than 1,000 words, we’ll use a few screenshots of tooltips related to blockades to make it a bit more clear.


blockade_tt.png

This can’t be all bad right?

Even with only a single port fully blockaded, the maritime presence in the seazone is severely impacted, and will take many months to recover, unless you got coastal forts or navies patrolling it for a long time after a war.

maritime_change.png

I do love the adjective for Holland..

Not all ships are great at blockading, as you most likely want to have Heavy Ships and/or Light Ships to do the blockading.

blockade_capacity.png

This type of hulk doesn’t smash…

Not all locations are equal, and different populations, infrastructure and development increases how much ships are required to blockade a location.

blockade_required.png

There are about 32,000 people living in this nice rural settlement..

Ships Repairing
Every month that a fleet is in a seazone that is not adjacent to a friendly port they will start taking attrition. This attrition is increased dramatically if the fleet is outside the naval range. This attrition creates a chance for ships to be damaged. While usually you can only repair a ship in a port, there are advances in some ages that allows you to repair your ships in coastal sea zones, where at the Age of Revolutions you can repair a ship up to 50% efficiency without going back to a port.

Naval Range is calculated from every core port that you own, or is owned by one of your subjects, or owned by someone you have negotiated fleet basing rights with.

venice_naval_range.png

Can we control the entire mediterranean sea as Venice?

Transporting Troops
Ships in Project Caesar all have the capacity to transport regiments. The transport capacity of a ship is not measured in regiments but in the amount of men it can carry. Usually the transport ships are far better at carrying regiments, but other types of ships can carry some as well.

We also have automated transportation, similar to eu4, to make moving armies around the world less painful.

Combat
In a naval battle there is no separate bombardment phase, as most ships have guns, and they tend to want to use them constantly. Otherwise, it works similar to land combat, in that you have different sections, but the individual ships you have will fire upon each other.

But while it comes to the actual combat algorithm, ships work a bit differently, as there is no combat power or amount of soldiers fíghting to consider, but instead ships have an amount of cannons and hull size. Cannons are the offensive value, and hull size the defensive.

Types of Ships
There are four different categories of ships, Heavy Ships, Light Ships, Galleys and Transports. In each category there are at least one ship in each age that can be researched, but there are also many unique ships that can be built. There is no real restriction on what roles different ships can perform, but a Transport is not the best at blockading, and a Light Ship may not be ideal for transporting a lot of soldiers.

Each type of ship differs on how many trained sailors they need for their crew, how many cannons they can have, and more.

You can also raise ships as levies from your population, but those are usually best suited to transport armies shorter distances, and should not be relied upon in a sea battle.

ships_builder.png

WiP UI, but here is a unique galley for Aragon... 2 more guns, 1 more hull, but need 30 more sailors. And there’s also an Early Iberian Caravel, which all the Iberian countries may build.

Stay tuned, as next week we will talk about how colonization works.
 
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Population in a location increases the amount of ships needed for blockading? What's the situation in China gonna be like?
 
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Can harbor suitability be changed by an event? Like :

  • The silting of the Zwin made Brugge inaccessible by sea in the 15th Century.
  • The St. Elizabeth flood made the western Scheldt (Honte) the main navigation route to Antwerp in 1404 when it was the Eastern Scheldt before?
 
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goods > all... as goods = taxes
In that case shouldn’t even the best road network be crap compared to sea and river connections? Rome is a good example. Even with their top tier road network sea travel was magnitudes faster and cheaper. Trading up the Rhone was faster than drading across the peninsula. And while bulk trade over land never advanced beyond wagons and mules until the advent of locomotives, naval technology did improve so the disparity in cost would be even wider.
 
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Didn't ships in Late Medieval Age and Early Renaissance used only manpower as firepower? To my knowledge the guns on ships first appeared on Venetian and Portugese ships in 1470s.

What I ask is, will early ships use infantry equipment (aka bows, crossbows and etc.) as their offensive and later on switch to cannons?
 
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Wow, looks amazing, such a progress.
Just a couple of questions.

1. Sailor pool will be parallel to the manpower pool with similar mechanics?
2. Will there be manpower/sailor pools capped by a fraction of your total controlled pops? Like by ~20-25% in total, that represents all adult males.
3. For the previous TT: how are fort garrisons filled up? From the local pops, regiments or manpower? And particularly what about the occupied forts in the enemy territory?

Thanks!
 
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Would it be possible to include natural harbours in Map Feedback posts as well? I can spot a bunch of places in that screenshot of Europe you posted that should have better natural harbours than depicted.

EDIT: for example, Trieste, Pula and Rijeka were always pretty good ports

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Alright, I highlighted a few locations of decent ports to include in this era.

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For one, the Hoorn location or westfriesland needs to be all green, it's such an important place for shipbuilding. It has the modern maritime base of Den Helder, it has the historical ports of Medemblik, Enkhuizen and Hoorn and even Texel has some significance.

Harlingen should maybe get something? It became the head of the Admirality of Friesland, before that though, it was location in Dokkum, which is in the Leeuwarden location.

Emden already is highlighted, but is a pretty decent port.

Wilhelmshaven is a port which becomes important in the 19th century. Though before this, it might have already been a decent port? Not entirely sure, Emden was more important at the time.

Cuxhaven becomes a later port for Hamburg.

In Flanders, Oostende should really be included as a good port. It gave the name to the austrian colonial company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostend_Company

Nieuwpoort is located on a river estuary, making it pretty good.

Duinkerken or Dunkirque is both famous and infamous as a port.

Calais of course was important for the English.
 
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Can harbor suitability be changed by an event? Like :

  • The silting of the Zwin made Brugge inaccessible by sea in the 15th Century.
  • The St. Elizabeth flood made the western Scheldt (Honte) the main navigation route to Antwerp in 1404 when it was the Eastern Scheldt before?
Yes! As it's a completely scriptable feature. And you already know where to post that kind of suggestion. ;)
 
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Transporting Troops
Ships in Project Caesar all have the capacity to transport regiments. The transport capacity of a ship is not measured in regiments but in the amount of men it can carry. Usually the transport ships are far better at carrying regiments, but other types of ships can carry some as well.

We also have automated transportation, similar to eu4, to make moving armies around the world less painful.
One of main utilities of navies beyond trade should be power projection overseas, power projection that should be crucial for the success of multicontinental empires, colonial powers and countries specielized in multicontinental trade. The current navy system makes a big navy indispensible for anyone interested in power projection overseas? I feel like the control mechanics that is increased overseas only by navies could be enough in this matter and is a good decision.

However, EU4 had a problem where you could, even with a small navy, transport tens thousands men to fight overseas in the Americas, Subsaharan Africa or East Asia. It could take multiple voyages but you could just transport everyone in peace time and wait your manpower pool replenish your attrition losses before you start a war declaration.

It was unimmersive in my opinion and made colonial wars too easy and one dimensional (no need for alliances and diplomacy with natives when you can just transport 20k new men to fight in your settlement) while simultaneously made the natives unrealistically strong to give them even a chance to compete against tens thousands of invaders (while in early colonization phases in real life, they would fight european armies of hundreds or a few thousands at max).

In your opinion the current way that navies interact with armies logistics fix these problems? The fact that your manpower pool do not replenish armies outside friendly territory is enough? It can be cheesed? For example, if you have just one friendly location in the Americas it would give your army access to the entire manpower pool of your empire even if your navy is small?

Would be neccessary to limit the speed at which your overseas armies replace losses with your manpower pool based in the size of your navy? There should be a army supply limit for overseas armies based in the size of your navy? Overseas armies in friendly provinces should be incapable of reinforce with manpower if you or your allies dont control the seas?
 
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I notice that there are some names/locations missing in the picture about natural habors like in Castille or Andalusia. I know it´s probably a stupid question but in gonna ask anyway just in case: did some locations in Iberia and other regions got removed or something?
 
Are naval battle gonna be more decisive in P.C. with less chance of ships surviving an engagement on high seas than other games since historically naval battles have always beem more "winner takes all" than land battles?
 
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I hope there has to be a certain infrastructure in place before a location can build Ships of the Line. EU 4 is so silly in how you can build those advanced Man o’ War everywhere.
 
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