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Tinto Talks #24 - 7th of August 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the Happy Wednesday where we spill the secrets about our entirely super secret, nobody will ever guess its name, game, which we refer to as Project Caesar.

Today we will delve into a lot of naval related aspects, when we talk about everything from Maritime Presence to Naval Combat.

Importance of Maritime Presence
First of all, we need to get back to the importance of maritime presence and naval capacity in Project Caesar. Before you can get advanced road networks through your country, your proximity propagation is much faster through places where you have maritime presence. Any seazone where you have no maritime presence OR a location without any road network costs about 40 ‘proximity’ to traverse through, which basically means you can not propagate any control more than 3 locations away. Of course, there are things that impact your proximity costs per location, like topography, vegetation, development and societal values as well.

proximity_map.png

The heartland has some access, but the coasts are the most important to us..

For a coastal seazone, if you have 100% maritime presence, the base cost is 5 per location. If you have less than 100% maritime presence it will scale the price accordingly. So at 33% maritime presence, and you have no other modifiers, it would cost 0.33*5 + 0.67*40, i.e. about 28.45.

Lakes and Major Rivers are always considered to be 100% maritime presence sea zones for proximity calculations and market access calculations.

proximity_kalmar.png

Why is the seazone outside Stockholm called 'Trälhavet'?

As you can see here, tracing the proximity out from Kalmar to the seazone of Kalmar Sund is a bit costly, as going from land to sea through a port has a higher base cost. This is severely reduced by the infrastructure and development you have built up in that location, as well as the natural harbor attributes that location has.

Natural Harbors
This is something new for this game that we have not done before. With so many locations, and such granularity, and mechanics emphasizing a deeper simulation, we had to start treating places differently, as there is a reason why certain places on the map are better suited as ports than others. This also explains why certain locations grew to be important places in history over others.

map_of_harbors.png

The brighter the green the better the harbor can be..

Of course, you can improve the harbor suitability of a location by building certain infrastructure, so even if the location you want to build up lacks the natural benefits, it can still be built up, even if it is more costly to do so as well.

The Harbor Suitability of a location has a significant impact on the trade and proximity calculations, and also impacts how quickly armies can be loaded or unloaded from the location.

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Bristol has its uses. The main question though, Rovers or City?


Shipbuilding
One of the disadvantages of playing a naval nation, in other games we’ve made, was the simple fact that unless you had a large coastline you could not compete, no matter how good the coastal locations you had were. One of the reasons was the simple fact that you could only build a ship at a time, and if you wanted to recruit a regiment, you couldn’t.

In Project Caesar this has changed, first of all, there are three different construction queues in a location. First there is the civil one for buildings, RGO’s, and all other non-military oriented things you can do in a location. Secondly we have the army based queue, and finally, we have the naval based queue, so you can recruit regiments at the same time that you build ships in a location.

We also added the concept of parallel ship building in a location, where buildings can unlock additional shipbuilding slots in a location, where at the end of the game you can build close to twenty ships at the same time in the same shipyard, with all the related advances and other stuff unlocked.


venetian_arsenal.png

This is a unique building that Venice has in its capital that increases the parallel capacity of shipbuilding by 4.


Blockades
One of the most powerful abilities that you can do during a war is blockading another nation's coast. The immediate impact is a reduction of food production, maximum control and making trades being more costly and likely to reroute. There is also the fact that development growth is severely slowed, the decline of prosperity and a dramatic reduction of your maritime presence.

As some say, an image tells you more than 1,000 words, we’ll use a few screenshots of tooltips related to blockades to make it a bit more clear.


blockade_tt.png

This can’t be all bad right?

Even with only a single port fully blockaded, the maritime presence in the seazone is severely impacted, and will take many months to recover, unless you got coastal forts or navies patrolling it for a long time after a war.

maritime_change.png

I do love the adjective for Holland..

Not all ships are great at blockading, as you most likely want to have Heavy Ships and/or Light Ships to do the blockading.

blockade_capacity.png

This type of hulk doesn’t smash…

Not all locations are equal, and different populations, infrastructure and development increases how much ships are required to blockade a location.

blockade_required.png

There are about 32,000 people living in this nice rural settlement..

Ships Repairing
Every month that a fleet is in a seazone that is not adjacent to a friendly port they will start taking attrition. This attrition is increased dramatically if the fleet is outside the naval range. This attrition creates a chance for ships to be damaged. While usually you can only repair a ship in a port, there are advances in some ages that allows you to repair your ships in coastal sea zones, where at the Age of Revolutions you can repair a ship up to 50% efficiency without going back to a port.

Naval Range is calculated from every core port that you own, or is owned by one of your subjects, or owned by someone you have negotiated fleet basing rights with.

venice_naval_range.png

Can we control the entire mediterranean sea as Venice?

Transporting Troops
Ships in Project Caesar all have the capacity to transport regiments. The transport capacity of a ship is not measured in regiments but in the amount of men it can carry. Usually the transport ships are far better at carrying regiments, but other types of ships can carry some as well.

We also have automated transportation, similar to eu4, to make moving armies around the world less painful.

Combat
In a naval battle there is no separate bombardment phase, as most ships have guns, and they tend to want to use them constantly. Otherwise, it works similar to land combat, in that you have different sections, but the individual ships you have will fire upon each other.

But while it comes to the actual combat algorithm, ships work a bit differently, as there is no combat power or amount of soldiers fíghting to consider, but instead ships have an amount of cannons and hull size. Cannons are the offensive value, and hull size the defensive.

Types of Ships
There are four different categories of ships, Heavy Ships, Light Ships, Galleys and Transports. In each category there are at least one ship in each age that can be researched, but there are also many unique ships that can be built. There is no real restriction on what roles different ships can perform, but a Transport is not the best at blockading, and a Light Ship may not be ideal for transporting a lot of soldiers.

Each type of ship differs on how many trained sailors they need for their crew, how many cannons they can have, and more.

You can also raise ships as levies from your population, but those are usually best suited to transport armies shorter distances, and should not be relied upon in a sea battle.

ships_builder.png

WiP UI, but here is a unique galley for Aragon... 2 more guns, 1 more hull, but need 30 more sailors. And there’s also an Early Iberian Caravel, which all the Iberian countries may build.

Stay tuned, as next week we will talk about how colonization works.
 
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Does ship combat take into account account such modiefeiers as Accuracy and Reliability of cannons?
Knowledge of advance metallurgy and ballistics. This is one big reason why in late medieval/early modern era, Venetian galleys were so feared, it was because of their superior knowledge of metallurical engineering in producing high quality cannon with reliablie and accurate shotting capabilities, that were praised long into 18. cen.
And ofc trained skilled craw, operating them.
 
Early Iberian caravel made me twitch. I do hope Portugal has an Unique Ship this time around. Also all ships can transport troops, that's awesome.
Where can we see the amount of troops each ship can transport?
Early Iberian Caravels and Iberian Caravels are unique ships of any Iberian countries, portraying their naval building innovativeness at the Age of Discovery. But Portugal has some naval bonuses compared to the other Iberian powers, of course, so it will be a more naval-focused country (which we'll talk about in due time, of course).
 
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Plus Venice, Genoa, Byzantium (at least on paper) and the Ottomans.
Sure, I was looking at the list that still exist.

Early Iberian Caravels and Iberian Caravels are unique ships of any Iberian countries, portraying their naval building innovativeness at the Age of Discovery. But Portugal has some naval bonuses compared to the other Iberian powers, of course, so it will be a more naval-focused country (which we'll talk about in due time, of course).

So Portugal will have acess to the Iberian Terço?

See what I did there?
But seriously Portugal had the Square Rigged Caravel, that was meant for combat. That could be an Unique Portuguese version.
 
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What is the best natural harbour in the world in game? Trincomalee maybe?
We don't have a 'best harbour in the world' (as that may be very much debatable); what we have is 63 different locations with the best possible Harbor Suitability (100%, or 1.00 as how it's scripted, because it's an entirely scriptable [and, therefore, moddable] value).
 
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Interesting as always. When will there be DD's showing the actual map? The numbers are nice but a map would be better and since all of Europe has been revealed, it won't spoil anything for this "top secret game."

not sure yet
 
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Sorry if already mentioned somewhere but I was hoping navies would carry supplies and would first need to lose those in order to gain attrition (alternatively attrition would be minor as long as the navy has supplies).

Also any returning mechanics/inspirations from Imperator like deleting forts with specific ships, capturing coastal provinces etc? I think those were pretty fun and gave players actually good rewards for focusing on their navies.
 
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I know bro.

Ah yeah, just realized I misread you, apologies.

Not sure we need more than Bailiffs tbh, I don't think a country would have much control over river-less, road-less, landlocked locations without a local representative anyway. I can't think right now of an example that would need other pre-placed modifiers/buildings to historically match their 1337 Control setup.
 
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This look very interesting, I really like the fact that you will be able to build up strong habours that become the centre of shipbuilding rather than it being based on number of provinces, much more realistic. I also love the habour suitability thing that you have added.

I could not help but to notice that given the shape of the London province and the vague outline of Southwark, it looks like you still have London, Westminster, and Southwark as seperate locations. In the British Isles Tinto Maps, I (and I believe a few others as well) provided some sources that indicate that Westminster and Southwark even at the beginning of the game period was more akin to suburbs of the City of London than separate towns and that it was problematic to separate London from the status as capital. Is the current state of the map an indication that you have chosen to keep the original set up or just that you have not yet finished revising the British Isles yet? If the former, I would love to know your reasoning and if there will be a decision to unite these three provinces later to avoid this fragmented status preventing London from emerging as an imperial capital to rival its international rivals like Paris, which is represented by a single location.
 
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The Galley became virtually obsolete in European navies by the late 18th and early 19th centuries. Is this shown in Project Caeser?
The latest generic galley model is 'Xebec', which comes in Age of Absolutism (1637-1737).
 
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What about medium ships ?

Three deckers like in EU4 were fairly rare during the game timespan, most navies were comprised of two-deckers (64 canons/74 canons/80 canons) and frigates.
Three deckers were very expensive while medium ships were more cost effective.

I think adding medium ships as a separate type of ship would be a great addition to the game, allowing us to keep heavy ships (like HMS Victoria or Océan) as admiral ships with a battle line mostly composed of medium ships as it was historically.
 
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Will pirating and privateering be a thing?

Maintining the Maritime Presence over large number of sea zones with ships in peacetime will be automated akin to Protect Trade / Hunt for Pirates missions in EU4?

So if ports and their benefits will be negativelly affected by seasonal things like Harsh Winters in the north.... can we then also expect Monsune Weather negativelly affecting certain tropical reagions in certain times of the year? :)
 
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How much can pure navy contribute to winning a war?
Pretty obvious from what you've shown that if you fully blockade the British Isles you can sit on it for a year and come back to find them on the verge of collapse, but could you force a smaller country to surrender like Sardinia? Or will they always refuse giving up territory till you land troops, but happily give you anything else?
 
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