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Tinto Talks #24 - 7th of August 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the Happy Wednesday where we spill the secrets about our entirely super secret, nobody will ever guess its name, game, which we refer to as Project Caesar.

Today we will delve into a lot of naval related aspects, when we talk about everything from Maritime Presence to Naval Combat.

Importance of Maritime Presence
First of all, we need to get back to the importance of maritime presence and naval capacity in Project Caesar. Before you can get advanced road networks through your country, your proximity propagation is much faster through places where you have maritime presence. Any seazone where you have no maritime presence OR a location without any road network costs about 40 ‘proximity’ to traverse through, which basically means you can not propagate any control more than 3 locations away. Of course, there are things that impact your proximity costs per location, like topography, vegetation, development and societal values as well.

proximity_map.png

The heartland has some access, but the coasts are the most important to us..

For a coastal seazone, if you have 100% maritime presence, the base cost is 5 per location. If you have less than 100% maritime presence it will scale the price accordingly. So at 33% maritime presence, and you have no other modifiers, it would cost 0.33*5 + 0.67*40, i.e. about 28.45.

Lakes and Major Rivers are always considered to be 100% maritime presence sea zones for proximity calculations and market access calculations.

proximity_kalmar.png

Why is the seazone outside Stockholm called 'Trälhavet'?

As you can see here, tracing the proximity out from Kalmar to the seazone of Kalmar Sund is a bit costly, as going from land to sea through a port has a higher base cost. This is severely reduced by the infrastructure and development you have built up in that location, as well as the natural harbor attributes that location has.

Natural Harbors
This is something new for this game that we have not done before. With so many locations, and such granularity, and mechanics emphasizing a deeper simulation, we had to start treating places differently, as there is a reason why certain places on the map are better suited as ports than others. This also explains why certain locations grew to be important places in history over others.

map_of_harbors.png

The brighter the green the better the harbor can be..

Of course, you can improve the harbor suitability of a location by building certain infrastructure, so even if the location you want to build up lacks the natural benefits, it can still be built up, even if it is more costly to do so as well.

The Harbor Suitability of a location has a significant impact on the trade and proximity calculations, and also impacts how quickly armies can be loaded or unloaded from the location.

bristol_useful.png

Bristol has its uses. The main question though, Rovers or City?


Shipbuilding
One of the disadvantages of playing a naval nation, in other games we’ve made, was the simple fact that unless you had a large coastline you could not compete, no matter how good the coastal locations you had were. One of the reasons was the simple fact that you could only build a ship at a time, and if you wanted to recruit a regiment, you couldn’t.

In Project Caesar this has changed, first of all, there are three different construction queues in a location. First there is the civil one for buildings, RGO’s, and all other non-military oriented things you can do in a location. Secondly we have the army based queue, and finally, we have the naval based queue, so you can recruit regiments at the same time that you build ships in a location.

We also added the concept of parallel ship building in a location, where buildings can unlock additional shipbuilding slots in a location, where at the end of the game you can build close to twenty ships at the same time in the same shipyard, with all the related advances and other stuff unlocked.


venetian_arsenal.png

This is a unique building that Venice has in its capital that increases the parallel capacity of shipbuilding by 4.


Blockades
One of the most powerful abilities that you can do during a war is blockading another nation's coast. The immediate impact is a reduction of food production, maximum control and making trades being more costly and likely to reroute. There is also the fact that development growth is severely slowed, the decline of prosperity and a dramatic reduction of your maritime presence.

As some say, an image tells you more than 1,000 words, we’ll use a few screenshots of tooltips related to blockades to make it a bit more clear.


blockade_tt.png

This can’t be all bad right?

Even with only a single port fully blockaded, the maritime presence in the seazone is severely impacted, and will take many months to recover, unless you got coastal forts or navies patrolling it for a long time after a war.

maritime_change.png

I do love the adjective for Holland..

Not all ships are great at blockading, as you most likely want to have Heavy Ships and/or Light Ships to do the blockading.

blockade_capacity.png

This type of hulk doesn’t smash…

Not all locations are equal, and different populations, infrastructure and development increases how much ships are required to blockade a location.

blockade_required.png

There are about 32,000 people living in this nice rural settlement..

Ships Repairing
Every month that a fleet is in a seazone that is not adjacent to a friendly port they will start taking attrition. This attrition is increased dramatically if the fleet is outside the naval range. This attrition creates a chance for ships to be damaged. While usually you can only repair a ship in a port, there are advances in some ages that allows you to repair your ships in coastal sea zones, where at the Age of Revolutions you can repair a ship up to 50% efficiency without going back to a port.

Naval Range is calculated from every core port that you own, or is owned by one of your subjects, or owned by someone you have negotiated fleet basing rights with.

venice_naval_range.png

Can we control the entire mediterranean sea as Venice?

Transporting Troops
Ships in Project Caesar all have the capacity to transport regiments. The transport capacity of a ship is not measured in regiments but in the amount of men it can carry. Usually the transport ships are far better at carrying regiments, but other types of ships can carry some as well.

We also have automated transportation, similar to eu4, to make moving armies around the world less painful.

Combat
In a naval battle there is no separate bombardment phase, as most ships have guns, and they tend to want to use them constantly. Otherwise, it works similar to land combat, in that you have different sections, but the individual ships you have will fire upon each other.

But while it comes to the actual combat algorithm, ships work a bit differently, as there is no combat power or amount of soldiers fíghting to consider, but instead ships have an amount of cannons and hull size. Cannons are the offensive value, and hull size the defensive.

Types of Ships
There are four different categories of ships, Heavy Ships, Light Ships, Galleys and Transports. In each category there are at least one ship in each age that can be researched, but there are also many unique ships that can be built. There is no real restriction on what roles different ships can perform, but a Transport is not the best at blockading, and a Light Ship may not be ideal for transporting a lot of soldiers.

Each type of ship differs on how many trained sailors they need for their crew, how many cannons they can have, and more.

You can also raise ships as levies from your population, but those are usually best suited to transport armies shorter distances, and should not be relied upon in a sea battle.

ships_builder.png

WiP UI, but here is a unique galley for Aragon... 2 more guns, 1 more hull, but need 30 more sailors. And there’s also an Early Iberian Caravel, which all the Iberian countries may build.

Stay tuned, as next week we will talk about how colonization works.
 
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Regarding naval combat specifically (and granted I only have two short paragraphs to base my opinion upon) I can't help but feel a bit uneasy with this level of abstraction in combat elements (cannons vs hull size). I hope that at least some kind of maneuver value is considered when portraying the vessels; I would also like to point out that boarding actions remained relevant, albeit with decreasing importance, throughout the game's timeframe.
 
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Could PC integrate color scheme ramps? I think map painters would really appreciate the ability to choose color ramps based on their personal preferences.

colorschemeramps.png
 
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IMO Göta Älv should be considered a major river.

EDIT: For real though, Göta Älv is Swedens biggest watercourse, with the highest amount of average water flow, biggest catchment area, and with historical precedence since medieval times of its navigability up to the the Trollhättefallen. If this is not enough for a river to be considered a major river, none of the rivers seen in the first screenshot should be.
 
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Excellent work as always, you really outdid yourselves. I really liked your take on ships and navies in the early modern age and their important role in the logistics of countries and armies. The only thing I’d like to mention is that in my opinion some important natural harbours have not been represented well. For example Ancona, in Italy, takes its name from the greek word ankòn (meaning elbow) for the shape of its territory that resembles an elbow and offered good protection to the ships resting there. It was because of this characteristic that, in roman times, it was the most important port in the Adriatic and it retained much of this importance for centuries while in the map it is coloured black. There are of course many other instances of natural harbours currently not represented and I hope that you can give them the importance they deserve. Keep up the good work guys, I can’t waiting to get my hands on the game.
 
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While a ship designer would make me happy and expanding the flagship designer into full ship designer would be perfect i don't think it is all that important and the one you suggested and its associated combat system has some flaws.
1) Armour wasn't really a thing at this point and would not be up until the Victorian era, there were different types of construction methods with some benefits in certain areas and drawbacks in others and as advances in this area happened at most once a century with the new method usually (not always) being an improvement in almost every away to the previous method calling it armour is weird
2) number of decks also isn't really a thing until the post 30 years war proper age of sail, calling it hull type would be better as it would include other design couches such as for and aft castles.
3) Option for cannon types also doesn't make that much sense since it was common for a single ship to carry multiple types and calibers of cannons. This option would also be hard to implement since before the proper age of sail era there were to many different types of cannons that often overlap on capabilities and going even further back most cannons were one-off experimental weapons that are hard to properly categorize.
4) Crew should not be determined by the player. at best the player should have a say in the size of the marine contingent.

Combat system proposed doesn't seem to take into account boarding actions, also considering the range at which naval engagements took place up until the Spanish-American war having accuracy and chance of dodging an attack is weird.
Hello;
Thanks for your answer.
Concerning armor, it was a thing, some ships were built with specific wood types and angles to deflect canon balls.
French engeneers were notorious for the very rounded designs of the "vaisseaux 74 canon" type ship.

Concerning canons you are totally right, many types were used and they even differed from deck to deck, the heavier piece were used on the lowest deck. But my idea was more to give the player a choice of type of artllery, long guns, carronades, siege bombard or even mortar. But yes realistically speaking ships were fitted with a very wide range of artillery pieces.

For the boarding, i am going to be honest i don't know how to best portray the boarding actions. The crew idea was for that. But if you have a propsition be sure to let me know because you seem very knowledgable on the subject.

Concerning all your comments about how cannons were experimental and two decker appears very late, again you are very correct. It should be unlocked throught technology appearing later in the game.

For the dodging thing, manoeuvre i call it, it is just to have a defensive stat to avoid overagressive ship design destroying evrything. It is countered by accuracy. Which is countered althought limitedly by armor.
Anyways.
I would love for you to expand on my suggestion because you seem to have great knowledge on the topic. I admitt i am a naval enthusiast and in no way an expert.
If you have any knowledge of the historical boarding practises and also medieval naval warfare (which i know nothing about) my aim was mainly to give the player a real choice and make strategies and also make navies a necessity for maritime commerce.
 
This may not be a popular view but there are way to many natural harbors and to many currently listed are not natural harbors at all or actually terrible natural harbors. Examples are London ( to much tidal influence so half the time not reachable by decent sized ships, it is human development that made it the tradeport it was) and even Amsterdam (I am Dutch so no bias here) as it's harbor was located on the shallow inland sea side so large ships could not enter it as well, once more human development made it possible to become the important tradeport it was.
I do like that natural harbors can change, the best example of this in the Netherlands would be that Dordrecht was originally a great natural harbor (small tidal effect directly connected to the sea and even though it was in an estuary had deep water for large ships), and was destined to become the 'Rotterdam' we have today, but due to natural changes and human intervention it ended up with a silting up problem whereas by those same causes (including the actual dam build in the Rotte) turned Rotterdam from being a no harbor at all into the great natural harbor Dordrecht had been just even closer to open sea..
 
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Suggestion​

Adding Dynamic Weather Conditions to Naval Mechanics​

Hey everyone,

I’ve been reflecting on how weather has historically shaped naval warfare, and I believe incorporating dynamic weather conditions into Project Caesar could bring a whole new level of realism and strategy to the game. Imagine if storms, heavy rain, and hurricanes could genuinely affect naval gameplay.

Why This Matters:​

Consider the Spanish Armada of 1588. Philip II of Spain dispatched four armadas to invade England, but the weather devastated them. The 1588 Armada, in particular, lost 30-40% of its fleet to storms in the North Atlantic. This wasn’t an isolated incident; subsequent armadas in 1596 and 1597 suffered similar fates, with 20-30% losses due to storms. These historical events highlight just how critical weather can be in naval operations.

What I'm Proposing:​

  1. Weather on the Map:
    • Imagine having visible indicators for storms, heavy rain, and hurricanes on the map. This feature would let us track severe weather patterns in real time, enabling us to adjust our naval routes proactively. Facing a hurricane without advance warning could lead to catastrophic losses, so seeing where bad weather is hitting would be crucial for strategic planning.
  2. Naval Range Impact:
    • Let’s have bad weather temporarily reduce naval range. If you’re on a long-distance expedition and a storm hits, you’ll need to rethink your strategy or risk heavy damage to your fleet. This would add a real tactical layer to planning and executing naval operations.
  3. Alerts for Severe Weather:
    • Imagine getting an alert when a storm or hurricane is on your fleet’s route. This feature would allow us to manually reroute or let the AI adjust automatically to avoid the worst weather, potentially saving our fleets from disaster.
  4. Real Consequences:
    • Severe weather should have serious repercussions. Just as the Spanish Armada faced near ruin, a massive storm in the game could cripple a naval expedition or force a fleet to limp back to port. This would make every weather event a significant factor in naval strategy.
  5. AI Also Affected:
    • It’s crucial that the AI faces the same weather risks as players. The AI fleets should also be challenged by weather conditions and adjust their strategies accordingly, ensuring a fair and challenging experience for everyone.
  6. Impact on Blockades:
    • Weather conditions should impact the effectiveness of blockades. For instance, heavy storms could weaken blockades by disrupting supply lines and temporarily reducing control over sea zones. This would add depth to blockade strategies and their management.
  7. Effect on Sieges:
    • Severe weather could significantly affect naval sieges by disrupting the delivery of resources and reinforcements. Since armies can draw food from supply depots and fleets can act as floating supply depots, adverse weather might delay these vital supplies. This would impact the progress and outcome of sieges, making weather a crucial factor in siege tactics. Additionally, the ability of fleets to gather and distribute food from adjacent provinces* could be hindered by bad weather, affecting overall logistics and supply chain efficiency. Bad weather could also impact the efficiency of stealing food from occupied provinces or enemy armies, potentially leading to shortages and affecting the sustainability of prolonged campaigns.

    * Note: Fleets can gather and distribute food, but the specifics about gathering from adjacent provinces might not be accurate.

Historical Back-Up:​

To demonstrate that this isn’t just about the Spanish Armada, here are more examples:

  • Mongol Invasions of Japan (1274 and 1281): Typhoons known as "kamikaze" devastated Kublai Khan’s fleets, saving Japan from invasion.
  • Battle of Gravelines (1588): After defeating the Spanish Armada, storms off Scotland and Ireland sank many of their ships.
  • English Armada (1589): England’s counter-attack was wrecked by storms, resulting in the loss of almost half their fleet.
  • The Dutch East India Company (1667): Storms significantly damaged the VOC’s fleet while they were trying to reinforce their colonies.
  • Great Storm of 1703 (Royal Navy): One of Britain’s worst storms destroyed 13 Royal Navy ships and killed around 1,500 sailors.
  • Spanish Treasure Fleet (1622): A hurricane off Florida sank eight treasure-laden galleons, marking one of the largest maritime disasters.
  • Battle of Lagos (1759): A storm scattered the French fleet during the Seven Years' War, leading to a British victory and the capture or destruction of many French ships.
  • Battle of Cape St. Vincent (1780): A storm hit the Spanish fleet during the American Revolutionary War, causing major losses and weakening their naval power.
  • Portuguese India Armadas (16th Century): Several Portuguese fleets were destroyed or badly damaged by storms in the Indian Ocean, disrupting their trade routes and colonial efforts.

Final Thoughts:​

Incorporating these weather effects would dramatically enhance naval strategy in Project Caesar. It’s not just about having a strong fleet—it’s about navigating the elements too. This would add a new layer of strategy and risk, making every naval expedition more intense and realistic.

What do you all think? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
 
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Suggestion​

Adding Dynamic Weather Conditions to Naval Mechanics​

Hey everyone,

I’ve been reflecting on how weather has historically shaped naval warfare, and I believe incorporating dynamic weather conditions into Project Caesar could bring a whole new level of realism and strategy to the game. Imagine if storms, heavy rain, and hurricanes could genuinely affect naval gameplay.

Why This Matters:​

Consider the Spanish Armada of 1588. Philip II of Spain dispatched four armadas to invade England, but the weather devastated them. The 1588 Armada, in particular, lost 30-40% of its fleet to storms in the North Atlantic. This wasn’t an isolated incident; subsequent armadas in 1596 and 1597 suffered similar fates, with 20-30% losses due to storms. These historical events highlight just how critical weather can be in naval operations.

What I'm Proposing:​

  1. Weather on the Map:
    • Imagine having visible indicators for storms, heavy rain, and hurricanes on the map. This feature would let us track severe weather patterns in real time, enabling us to adjust our naval routes proactively. Facing a hurricane without advance warning could lead to catastrophic losses, so seeing where bad weather is hitting would be crucial for strategic planning.
  2. Naval Range Impact:
    • Let’s have bad weather temporarily reduce naval range. If you’re on a long-distance expedition and a storm hits, you’ll need to rethink your strategy or risk heavy damage to your fleet. This would add a real tactical layer to planning and executing naval operations.
  3. Alerts for Severe Weather:
    • Imagine getting an alert when a storm or hurricane is on your fleet’s route. This feature would allow us to manually reroute or let the AI adjust automatically to avoid the worst weather, potentially saving our fleets from disaster.
  4. Real Consequences:
    • Severe weather should have serious repercussions. Just as the Spanish Armada faced near ruin, a massive storm in the game could cripple a naval expedition or force a fleet to limp back to port. This would make every weather event a significant factor in naval strategy.
  5. AI Also Affected:
    • It’s crucial that the AI faces the same weather risks as players. The AI fleets should also be challenged by weather conditions and adjust their strategies accordingly, ensuring a fair and challenging experience for everyone.
  6. Impact on Blockades:
    • Weather conditions should impact the effectiveness of blockades. For instance, heavy storms could weaken blockades by disrupting supply lines and temporarily reducing control over sea zones. This would add depth to blockade strategies and their management.
  7. Effect on Sieges:
    • Severe weather could significantly affect naval sieges by disrupting the delivery of resources and reinforcements. Since armies can draw food from supply depots and fleets can act as floating supply depots, adverse weather might delay these vital supplies. This would impact the progress and outcome of sieges, making weather a crucial factor in siege tactics. Additionally, the ability of fleets to gather and distribute food from adjacent provinces* could be hindered by bad weather, affecting overall logistics and supply chain efficiency. Bad weather could also impact the efficiency of stealing food from occupied provinces or enemy armies, potentially leading to shortages and affecting the sustainability of prolonged campaigns.

    * Note: Fleets can gather and distribute food, but the specifics about gathering from adjacent provinces might not be accurate.

Historical Back-Up:​

To demonstrate that this isn’t just about the Spanish Armada, here are more examples:

  • Mongol Invasions of Japan (1274 and 1281): Typhoons known as "kamikaze" devastated Kublai Khan’s fleets, saving Japan from invasion.
  • Battle of Gravelines (1588): After defeating the Spanish Armada, storms off Scotland and Ireland sank many of their ships.
  • English Armada (1589): England’s counter-attack was wrecked by storms, resulting in the loss of almost half their fleet.
  • The Dutch East India Company (1667): Storms significantly damaged the VOC’s fleet while they were trying to reinforce their colonies.
  • Great Storm of 1703 (Royal Navy): One of Britain’s worst storms destroyed 13 Royal Navy ships and killed around 1,500 sailors.
  • Spanish Treasure Fleet (1622): A hurricane off Florida sank eight treasure-laden galleons, marking one of the largest maritime disasters.
  • Battle of Lagos (1759): A storm scattered the French fleet during the Seven Years' War, leading to a British victory and the capture or destruction of many French ships.
  • Battle of Cape St. Vincent (1780): A storm hit the Spanish fleet during the American Revolutionary War, causing major losses and weakening their naval power.
  • Portuguese India Armadas (16th Century): Several Portuguese fleets were destroyed or badly damaged by storms in the Indian Ocean, disrupting their trade routes and colonial efforts.

Final Thoughts:​

Incorporating these weather effects would dramatically enhance naval strategy in Project Caesar. It’s not just about having a strong fleet—it’s about navigating the elements too. This would add a new layer of strategy and risk, making every naval expedition more intense and realistic.

What do you all think? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

Wind conditions are important too, though they can be included in this weather. Oceanic winds make it easier for square-rigged sailships to travel long distances fast for example. While calm winds or contrawinds as they happen in inland seas like Mediterranean favor galleys or lateen-rigged vessels.

This was important in battles like Preveza between Ottomans and Joint Christian fleet.
 
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Hello;
Thanks for your answer.
Concerning armor, it was a thing, some ships were built with specific wood types and angles to deflect canon balls.
French engeneers were notorious for the very rounded designs of the "vaisseaux 74 canon" type ship.
My disagreement was mostly with the term armour as i dont think it fully represents the methods of protection used but that's just semantics.
Concerning canons you are totally right, many types were used and they even differed from deck to deck, the heavier piece were used on the lowest deck. But my idea was more to give the player a choice of type of artllery, long guns, carronades, siege bombard or even mortar. But yes realistically speaking ships were fitted with a very wide range of artillery pieces.
I see, cannon type as in overall focus of the gun armament.
For the boarding, i am going to be honest i don't know how to best portray the boarding actions. The crew idea was for that. But if you have a propsition be sure to let me know because you seem very knowledgable on the subject.

Concerning all your comments about how cannons were experimental and two decker appears very late, again you are very correct. It should be unlocked throught technology appearing later in the game.
Instead of having decks my hull type idea is basically carrack style/ galleon style/ ship of the line 2 decker/ ship of the line 3 decker/ razee/ turtle ship
For the dodging thing, manoeuvre i call it, it is just to have a defensive stat to avoid overagressive ship design destroying evrything. It is countered by accuracy. Which is countered althought limitedly by armor.
Anyways.
I would love for you to expand on my suggestion because you seem to have great knowledge on the topic. I admitt i am a naval enthusiast and in no way an expert.
If you have any knowledge of the historical boarding practises and also medieval naval warfare (which i know nothing about) my aim was mainly to give the player a real choice and make strategies and also make navies a necessity for maritime commerce.
On page 18 i proposed a system without a ship designer with a melee, ranged and mobility stat. Ships would start combat dealing ranged damage and the ship with higher mobility would check whether it has a greater advantage in melee x hp(crew) or ranged and would have a chance to switch to melee.

I don't see a need for a defense stat for melee because the ship features that make them difficult to board are also features that allow them to take other ships in a boarding action (high castles of a carrack). Giving a percentage reduction of melee damage taken would be better than having defensive value.

I don't think accuracy, evasion should be a thing. I don't know if having an armour piercing value is good or bad idea. Having an armour stat as you call it function as a defensive value plus some percentage damage reduction versus the offensive ranged value is good enough.
 
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My disagreement was mostly with the term armour as i dont think it fully represents the methods of protection used but that's just semantics.

I see, cannon type as in overall focus of the gun armament.

Instead of having decks my hull type idea is basically carrack style/ galleon style/ ship of the line 2 decker/ ship of the line 3 decker/ razee/ turtle ship

On page 18 i proposed a system without a ship designer with a melee, ranged and mobility stat. Ships would start combat dealing ranged damage and the ship with higher mobility would check whether it has a greater advantage in melee x hp(crew) or ranged and would have a chance to switch to melee.

I don't see a need for a defense stat for melee becausethe ship features that make them difficult to board are also features that allow them to take other ships into a boarding action (high castles of a carrack). Giving a percentage reduction of melee damage taken would be better than having defensive value.

I don't think accuracy, evasion should be a thing. I don't know if having an armour piercing value is good or bad idea. Having an armour stat as you call it function as a defensive value plus some percentage damage reduction versus the offensive ranged value is good enough.
Agreed.
My idea concerning a range defense stat is about game balance i have observed that in most game having only two stats in combat defense vs offence generally favours massively offence and results in massive casualties which is not very good . The idea is to make a stat under control of the player that nullify some attacks.
I like your idea of ship defense from boarding directly throught ship design.
anyway its been a pleasure and i hope some of these ideas will be implemented
 
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So, I’ve been thinking about how naval nations could get more love, especially in the context of the upcoming game (let's call it Project Caesar for now). We all know how Venice gets its cool Venetian Arsenal for shipbuilding, but what about Carthage?

They had an impressive naval tradition back in the day, and I think it would be awesome if we could see something similar for them in the game.

Here’s what I’m thinking: Proposed Implementations

1. Carthaginian Arsenal Rebuild:
If a player revives Carthage, they should totally get the option to rebuild the Carthaginian Arsenal. This could give a big boost to naval production, making it feel like you’re bringing back an ancient powerhouse.

2. Levantine Culture Integration:
For those who manage to integrate Levantine culture, why not unlock a unique shipbuilding facility? It could be similar to the Venetian Arsenal but with a twist that reflects Carthaginian influence.

3. Thalassocracy Bonus:
If a nation goes full thalassocracy (maritime supremacy), let them build an advanced naval facility that increases ship production and repair speed. It’s all about making the seas your domain!

4. Militarist Doctrine Unlock:
Maybe if you have a militarist government, you get a national decision to build a powerful shipyard. This could be a one-time bonus per campaign, adding some strategic depth.

5. Naval Academy:
Inspired by Total War, how about a naval academy as a unique building? It could train faster and more experienced crew, cutting down on ship recruitment times and boosting naval combat efficiency.

6. Strategic Resources Matter:
Like in Civ VI, if you control specific resources (special timber or iron?), you could unlock a unique naval facility that makes your ships tougher or quicker to produce.

7. Shipyard Specialization:
Borrowing from HoI IV, you could specialize your shipyards for different ship types—faster light ships or stronger heavy ships. This adds some nice customization options.

8. Historical Event Trigger:
Imagine controlling key Mediterranean territories triggers an event where you get the chance to rebuild Carthage’s shipyard. It’d be an investment, but the rewards could be huge.

9. Regional Naval Supremacy:
Inspired by Imperator: Rome, certain coastal regions could let you build shipyards that give you regional naval dominance, like faster ship production or better blockading abilities.

10. Cross-Cultural Influence:
If your nation blends Eastern and Western naval traditions (maybe Levantine and Greco-Roman), you could unlock hybrid shipyards that mix the best of both worlds—speed and strength.

11. War-Time Emergency Measures:
Taking a cue from Total War and Victoria, during a long war, you could overextend your shipyards for a temporary production boost, but it might hurt your long-term efficiency.

12. Mercenary Shipyards:
What if you could build a shipyard that specializes in hiring mercenary fleets? This would give you a quick naval boost when you’re in a tight spot, but they’d cost more and be less loyal.

13. Expeditionary Fleets:
Like in HoI IV, maybe you could focus on creating shipyards for expeditionary fleets, letting you build ships that travel further and faster—perfect for colonial ambitions.

14. Naval Traditions Development:
Similar to Imperator: Rome, how about a building that represents the development of naval traditions? Ships built here would get long-term combat bonuses.

15. Global Trade Network:
Inspired by Civ VI, if you establish a global trade network, you could unlock a world-class shipyard. This would not only boost ship production but also increase your trade income.

Let me know what you think! Would any of these ideas make naval play more exciting and historically immersive? Also, if you’ve got any tweaks or new ideas, I’d love to hear them.
Laith this you?
 
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Suggestion​

Adding Dynamic Weather Conditions to Naval Mechanics​

Hey everyone,

I’ve been reflecting on how weather has historically shaped naval warfare, and I believe incorporating dynamic weather conditions into Project Caesar could bring a whole new level of realism and strategy to the game. Imagine if storms, heavy rain, and hurricanes could genuinely affect naval gameplay.

Why This Matters:​

Consider the Spanish Armada of 1588. Philip II of Spain dispatched four armadas to invade England, but the weather devastated them. The 1588 Armada, in particular, lost 30-40% of its fleet to storms in the North Atlantic. This wasn’t an isolated incident; subsequent armadas in 1596 and 1597 suffered similar fates, with 20-30% losses due to storms. These historical events highlight just how critical weather can be in naval operations.

What I'm Proposing:​

  1. Weather on the Map:
    • Imagine having visible indicators for storms, heavy rain, and hurricanes on the map. This feature would let us track severe weather patterns in real time, enabling us to adjust our naval routes proactively. Facing a hurricane without advance warning could lead to catastrophic losses, so seeing where bad weather is hitting would be crucial for strategic planning.
  2. Naval Range Impact:
    • Let’s have bad weather temporarily reduce naval range. If you’re on a long-distance expedition and a storm hits, you’ll need to rethink your strategy or risk heavy damage to your fleet. This would add a real tactical layer to planning and executing naval operations.
  3. Alerts for Severe Weather:
    • Imagine getting an alert when a storm or hurricane is on your fleet’s route. This feature would allow us to manually reroute or let the AI adjust automatically to avoid the worst weather, potentially saving our fleets from disaster.
  4. Real Consequences:
    • Severe weather should have serious repercussions. Just as the Spanish Armada faced near ruin, a massive storm in the game could cripple a naval expedition or force a fleet to limp back to port. This would make every weather event a significant factor in naval strategy.
  5. AI Also Affected:
    • It’s crucial that the AI faces the same weather risks as players. The AI fleets should also be challenged by weather conditions and adjust their strategies accordingly, ensuring a fair and challenging experience for everyone.
  6. Impact on Blockades:
    • Weather conditions should impact the effectiveness of blockades. For instance, heavy storms could weaken blockades by disrupting supply lines and temporarily reducing control over sea zones. This would add depth to blockade strategies and their management.
  7. Effect on Sieges:
    • Severe weather could significantly affect naval sieges by disrupting the delivery of resources and reinforcements. Since armies can draw food from supply depots and fleets can act as floating supply depots, adverse weather might delay these vital supplies. This would impact the progress and outcome of sieges, making weather a crucial factor in siege tactics. Additionally, the ability of fleets to gather and distribute food from adjacent provinces* could be hindered by bad weather, affecting overall logistics and supply chain efficiency. Bad weather could also impact the efficiency of stealing food from occupied provinces or enemy armies, potentially leading to shortages and affecting the sustainability of prolonged campaigns.

    * Note: Fleets can gather and distribute food, but the specifics about gathering from adjacent provinces might not be accurate.

Historical Back-Up:​

To demonstrate that this isn’t just about the Spanish Armada, here are more examples:

  • Mongol Invasions of Japan (1274 and 1281): Typhoons known as "kamikaze" devastated Kublai Khan’s fleets, saving Japan from invasion.
  • Battle of Gravelines (1588): After defeating the Spanish Armada, storms off Scotland and Ireland sank many of their ships.
  • English Armada (1589): England’s counter-attack was wrecked by storms, resulting in the loss of almost half their fleet.
  • The Dutch East India Company (1667): Storms significantly damaged the VOC’s fleet while they were trying to reinforce their colonies.
  • Great Storm of 1703 (Royal Navy): One of Britain’s worst storms destroyed 13 Royal Navy ships and killed around 1,500 sailors.
  • Spanish Treasure Fleet (1622): A hurricane off Florida sank eight treasure-laden galleons, marking one of the largest maritime disasters.
  • Battle of Lagos (1759): A storm scattered the French fleet during the Seven Years' War, leading to a British victory and the capture or destruction of many French ships.
  • Battle of Cape St. Vincent (1780): A storm hit the Spanish fleet during the American Revolutionary War, causing major losses and weakening their naval power.
  • Portuguese India Armadas (16th Century): Several Portuguese fleets were destroyed or badly damaged by storms in the Indian Ocean, disrupting their trade routes and colonial efforts.

Final Thoughts:​

Incorporating these weather effects would dramatically enhance naval strategy in Project Caesar. It’s not just about having a strong fleet—it’s about navigating the elements too. This would add a new layer of strategy and risk, making every naval expedition more intense and realistic.

What do you all think? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
I really dislike random weather events as a major game mechanic. Losing a fleet due to a storm because you did not babysit it will never feel right, regardless of how realistic it is. That doesn't meant that some variability in the attrition is not warranted. But for me, these events are decidedly unfun and get a bit too far into tactics.

Also, what's up with the spoiler tags? Is there some naval history of the 18th century series that you do not want to spoil for someone?
 
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I'm personally inclined to say that weather is one of the things that attrition is meant to abstract. Otherwise you just end up with "whoops my navy died by random chance" and no one likes that. Some variability in attrition (we're already likely to have that for winter; might as well have that on the high seas for storm season) works well to that end, but I wouldn't want it to be anything more than that.
 
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I really dislike random weather events as a major game mechanic. Losing a fleet due to a storm because you did not babysit it will never feel right, regardless of how realistic it is. That doesn't meant that some variability in the attrition is not warranted. But for me, these events are decidedly unfun and get a bit too far into tactics.

Also, what's up with the spoiler tags? Is there some naval history of the 18th century series that you do not want to spoil for someone?
There was some automation for ships in eu4. There can certainly be some automated (turn on/off) system to block ships from going to locations with bad weather for players who don't want to engage with such a system.
 
I have seen a few people make the argument that this location should have a higher harbour suitability since it was an important harbour historically. If I understand the intention correctly, this is not really how we should look at it. Harbour suitability only says something about the geography of the costal location, i.e. how good of a natural harbour it is before any infrastructure is build, which means it is easier to turn it into a good harbour and therefore reducing the cost of building the harbour infrastructure. I believe the idea is, and if it is not I would suggest it should be, that every costal province could potentially be developed into a great harbour irrespective of suitability. It will just cost more to build the infrastructure. Harbour suitability ought not be the only consideration when deciding where to develop a harbour. Imagine that you have a choice between two locations, one has excellent suitability and the other has no specific suitability, but it is easier to connect large parts of your lands to that latter potential port using roads and thereby increase your control and the influence of your market. In that situation you may consider investing in a harbour in the less suitable province since the benefits will be bigger. Consider also the situation where you need a harbour but have no options with high suitability. Therefore, the determining factor regarding which locations should have higher suitability should not be if it was or became a great harbour, but purely the geography.
 
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For the Upcoming west Africa map will there be a Oba title system and in depth map for the Yoruba people? As a Yoruba person myself I can consult any information or data you need for the southwest Nigeria/ East Benin Republic Region and west Africa as a whole.
 
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I really dislike random weather events as a major game mechanic. Losing a fleet due to a storm because you did not babysit it will never feel right, regardless of how realistic it is. That doesn't meant that some variability in the attrition is not warranted. But for me, these events are decidedly unfun and get a bit too far into tactics.

Also, what's up with the spoiler tags? Is there some naval history of the 18th century series that you do not want to spoil for someone?
Yeah, weather is more 'realistic', but it gameplay terms it can be described as "adding a mechanic that is completely outside the player's control, has a significant impact on battles, is not clearly portrayed via UI, creates extra micromanagement, and has a high likelihood of leading to rage-quits".
To me, weather is a great mechanic for tactical level sailing games, and a very frustrating one for strategic level games.
 
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I am not sure this is totally on topic, but since we are talking about coasts and ports, how will the St. Marcellus' flood (or Grote Mandrenke) in 1362 be depicted in game? It totally altered the Western Schleswig coastline and which islands/ports/cities were important.
 
For Waterford and Wexford, yes, those should probably be higher, but I wouldn't make Dublin too good. I don't have my sources handy at the moment, but Dublin was noted as not being a terribly good port compared to the ones in the south and west, but it was the largest city on the island so it was the capital.
Maybe so, but Dublin didn't become the largest city in Ireland by accident. Both the vikings and later the British chose to settle there.

Dublin has a large bay, though I believe before 18th century works the liffey was quite shallow and wide. None the less it should be some category of harbour.
 
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