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Tinto Talks #27 - 28th of August 2024

Welcome to Tinto Talks number #28, another Happy Wednesday, the day in the week where we give your information about our almost entirely super secret Project Caesar, so we can listen to your feedback.

This week, we will delve into more details about buildings, and how buildings are not just something you do inside your own borders, but something you do outside them as well. We usually call these types of buildings ‘foreign buildings’.

Common Foreign Buildings

One common building many countries can build in foreign towns and cities is a Trade Office, which requires that the owner of that location has an opinion of at least 100 of your country. This is one way to get a foothold into another market. The caveat is that the merchant power is relying entirely on the maritime presence it can provide,

trade_office.png

Time to build in every port, town or city….

Another building that you can build in capitals of countries of the same rank or above is an Embassy. They increase your diplomatic capacity by +0.10 and lift the fog of war over the location, but it is rather costly in upkeep, requiring lots of paper and jewelry.

Not all foreign buildings can be built in an owned location though. And some require that the location has no current owner to be allowed to be built.

One such building that you want to build in any area where you are doing a colonial charter is a mission. This is a building that will convert 100 pops every month to your state religion if the building is fully staffed and has access to its goods.


mission.png

Saving souls for God!





Unique Foreign Buildings
There are many unique foreign buildings in the game, many depending on what type or which country you may be playing. Today we will show off a few of these unique ones that make some countries play differently.

While the Hanseatic League has multiple buildings they can build, one of their truly unique is their shipwrights, as this can be built in any port of their subjects, giving sailors to the owner of the building, while also increasing the ship building capacity in the location.

If you play a banking country, you can always place a banking office in any town or city, which will give you a small amount of merchant power, while also giving you a fair amount of gold.

Military Orders in the Catholic faith can set up an Order Commandery in any location in another Catholic country, if they have negotiated a Sponsorship. If a country agrees to Sponsor a Military Order, they will gain religious influence and prestige every month. Each of these commanderies that you build will give you some gold and manpower.

order_commanderies.png

Each does not give much, but it all adds up…


Destroying Foreign Buildings
For the foreign buildings in your country that require good relations to build, you always have the option to destroy them if your opinion of that country goes below 0, and you are at peace again. This will obviously lower their opinion of you further, and give them a casus belli to be used against your country. Other buildings may require a peace treaty to be removed though.



While this may be very interesting and fun, I realize that this Tinto Talk is a bit short, so let's do some more information here..

Recent Changes
We constantly update and tweak the game from feedback and such, and today I was gonna show off a few examples of what we have changed recently, mostly due to the great feedback we have been given.

First of all, we have added a small staging time to all explorations, where they need to prepare, and require resources, tying the exploration mechanics closer to the economy system of the game. For the first few months of an exploration, there will be a type of construction in the closest location that fits, requiring goods to progress.

exploration_staging.png

You can’t go sailing without a lot of rum can you?


The cooldown on assigning generals to armies was not too popular when we talked about it, so instead we now have a system where it takes time until you get the benefits of a new general in your army. This time is connected to the travel time it takes from your capital to the army, and some extra time for the character to get up to speed. This will make assigning generals and admirals much more of a strategic choice.


One topic that has been raised in various map talks we have had has been the lack of ethno-religions. Now we have made it so we can lock some religions from allowing their pops to be assimilated before they can be converted.

ethno_religions.png

Yes, there is more than one israelite religion…

Stay tuned, as next week, Winter is coming…
 
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Welcome to Tinto Talks number #28, another Happy Wednesday, the day in the week where we give your information about our almost entirely super secret Project Caesar, so we can listen to your feedback.

This week, we will delve into more details about buildings, and how buildings are not just something you do inside your own borders, but something you do outside them as well. We usually call these types of buildings ‘foreign buildings’.

Common Foreign Buildings

One common building many countries can build in foreign towns and cities is a Trade Office, which requires that the owner of that location has an opinion of at least 100 of your country. This is one way to get a foothold into another market. The caveat is that the merchant power is relying entirely on the maritime presence it can provide,

View attachment 1180304
Time to build in every port, town or city….

Another building that you can build in capitals of countries of the same rank or above is an Embassy. They increase your diplomatic capacity by +0.10 and lift the fog of war over the location, but it is rather costly in upkeep, requiring lots of paper and jewelry.

Not all foreign buildings can be built in an owned location though. And some require that the location has no current owner to be allowed to be built.

One such building that you want to build in any area where you are doing a colonial charter is a mission. This is a building that will convert 100 pops every month to your state religion if the building is fully staffed and has access to its goods.


View attachment 1180302
Saving souls for God!





Unique Foreign Buildings
There are many unique foreign buildings in the game, many depending on what type or which country you may be playing. Today we will show off a few of these unique ones that make some countries play differently.

While the Hanseatic League has multiple buildings they can build, one of their truly unique is their shipwrights, as this can be built in any port of their subjects, giving sailors to the owner of the building, while also increasing the ship building capacity in the location.

If you play a banking country, you can always place a banking office in any town or city, which will give you a small amount of merchant power, while also giving you a fair amount of gold.

Military Orders in the Catholic faith can set up an Order Commandery in any location in another Catholic country, if they have negotiated a Sponsorship. If a country agrees to Sponsor a Military Order, they will gain religious influence and prestige every month. Each of these commanderies that you build will give you some gold and manpower.

View attachment 1180301
Each does not give much, but it all adds up…


Destroying Foreign Buildings
For the foreign buildings in your country that require good relations to build, you always have the option to destroy them if your opinion of that country goes below 0, and you are at peace again. This will obviously lower their opinion of you further, and give them a casus belli to be used against your country. Other buildings may require a peace treaty to be removed though.



While this may be very interesting and fun, I realize that this Tinto Talk is a bit short, so let's do some more information here..

Recent Changes
We constantly update and tweak the game from feedback and such, and today I was gonna show off a few examples of what we have changed recently, mostly due to the great feedback we have been given.

First of all, we have added a small staging time to all explorations, where they need to prepare, and require resources, tying the exploration mechanics closer to the economy system of the game. For the first few months of an exploration, there will be a type of construction in the closest location that fits, requiring goods to progress.

View attachment 1180300
You can’t go sailing without a lot of rum can you?


The cooldown on assigning generals to armies was not too popular when we talked about it, so instead we now have a system where it takes time until you get the benefits of a new general in your army. This time is connected to the travel time it takes from your capital to the army, and some extra time for the character to get up to speed. This will make assigning generals and admirals much more of a strategic choice.


One topic that has been raised in various map talks we have had has been the lack of ethno-religions. Now we have made it so we can lock some religions from allowing their pops to be assimilated before they can be converted.

View attachment 1180299
Yes, there is more than one israelite religion…

Stay tuned, as next week, Winter is coming…
Does this mean heresies are a thing ?
 
"For the first few months of an exploration, there will be a type of construction in the closest location that fits, requiring goods to progress."

This leads me to ask 3 questions:
1) Does this mean that the distance calculation for colonisation will be measured from the nearest location that fulfills certain requirements?
2) What is meant by closest location that fits, what are the requirements for a place to be the staging location?
3) The answer to 2) may answer this as well but will you e.g. be able to use a location in a colonial nation or other subject types as staging locations?

only owned locations.. port if its a seazone, and more likely to be a town or city.
 
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Hi Johan, great DD as always.

A few thing were not clear to me, if you would not mind:
1. Does embargo affect trade offices and maybe other foreign buildings? I.e. disallow a country to build them and makes the ones built have no effect?
2. The pops employed by foreign buldings (e.g. the 100 for trade office), do you have to pay for them somehow or you only pay for the input goods?
3. Are the pops employed in foreign buildings always local pops?
4. What happens if there is not enough people in a location for all its buildings, do foreign buildings come last in employment priority?
5. If I build an embassy in Zurich, can I get an event that a character named Jason Bourne spawns in my service? This is 100% historically accurate.

1 - embargo does not directly forbid you, but.. embargo makes you unable to use merchants, and also hurt relations.
2 - pops dont get paid ever really.
3 - they are local in the sense that they will live in that location.
4 - ah, this is the fun part. There are different policies in a law which determines order of employment for pops, so it depends on that.
5 - LOL.. only if the gamedate is >1990
 
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Does that mean that you have split Austria, since Wien, Graz and Ljubljana are in different countries?

oh, i was wrong.. there is no limit it seems
 
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Thinking a bit about this weeks and last weeks DD, Pirates could be a great use case of building based country and it might make more sense than a Navy based one as even Pirates needed to have their hideouts and places to anchor and rest and if you found out all of them and torched them, maybe they should disappear.

They could be a building based country that creates smugglers dens and hidden dockyards that as a criteria to be built the location would, besides getting a formal permission from the host country (unlikely), the location would have to be unowned or have one out of the options (i) have low control, (ii) low enough development or some terrain type (mountain, jungle, forrest) and they would influence the risk of your buildings would be found and then potentially destroyed. This could be a fun gameplay loop of a building based country that is more based on stealth than diplomacy.

Also that a building be "hidden" somehow from the owner if he does not match some criteria and then only having a change to being spotted. It could be done that as long as the owner did not detect the true nature of the building, it would appear as something harmless, so a smugglers den could appear as a fishing village that would petend have positive benefits that are not true.

This could be used for some many more systems, like spy networks, underground rebel promotion and more fiction mods such as the Skaven in Warhammer Fantasy or play as an Illuminatti secret society.

Could the game currently support (i.e. mods) in such rules for pre-requisites to create a building in a foreign location?

Is it currently possible to have building effects that are hidden from the location owner / other countries under some conditions?
 
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Welcome to Tinto Talks number #28, another Happy Wednesday, the day in the week where we give your information about our almost entirely super secret Project Caesar, so we can listen to your feedback.

This week, we will delve into more details about buildings, and how buildings are not just something you do inside your own borders, but something you do outside them as well. We usually call these types of buildings ‘foreign buildings’.

Common Foreign Buildings

One common building many countries can build in foreign towns and cities is a Trade Office, which requires that the owner of that location has an opinion of at least 100 of your country. This is one way to get a foothold into another market. The caveat is that the merchant power is relying entirely on the maritime presence it can provide,

View attachment 1180304
Time to build in every port, town or city….

Another building that you can build in capitals of countries of the same rank or above is an Embassy. They increase your diplomatic capacity by +0.10 and lift the fog of war over the location, but it is rather costly in upkeep, requiring lots of paper and jewelry.

Not all foreign buildings can be built in an owned location though. And some require that the location has no current owner to be allowed to be built.

One such building that you want to build in any area where you are doing a colonial charter is a mission. This is a building that will convert 100 pops every month to your state religion if the building is fully staffed and has access to its goods.


View attachment 1180302
Saving souls for God!





Unique Foreign Buildings
There are many unique foreign buildings in the game, many depending on what type or which country you may be playing. Today we will show off a few of these unique ones that make some countries play differently.

While the Hanseatic League has multiple buildings they can build, one of their truly unique is their shipwrights, as this can be built in any port of their subjects, giving sailors to the owner of the building, while also increasing the ship building capacity in the location.

If you play a banking country, you can always place a banking office in any town or city, which will give you a small amount of merchant power, while also giving you a fair amount of gold.

Military Orders in the Catholic faith can set up an Order Commandery in any location in another Catholic country, if they have negotiated a Sponsorship. If a country agrees to Sponsor a Military Order, they will gain religious influence and prestige every month. Each of these commanderies that you build will give you some gold and manpower.

View attachment 1180301
Each does not give much, but it all adds up…


Destroying Foreign Buildings
For the foreign buildings in your country that require good relations to build, you always have the option to destroy them if your opinion of that country goes below 0, and you are at peace again. This will obviously lower their opinion of you further, and give them a casus belli to be used against your country. Other buildings may require a peace treaty to be removed though.



While this may be very interesting and fun, I realize that this Tinto Talk is a bit short, so let's do some more information here..

Recent Changes
We constantly update and tweak the game from feedback and such, and today I was gonna show off a few examples of what we have changed recently, mostly due to the great feedback we have been given.

First of all, we have added a small staging time to all explorations, where they need to prepare, and require resources, tying the exploration mechanics closer to the economy system of the game. For the first few months of an exploration, there will be a type of construction in the closest location that fits, requiring goods to progress.

View attachment 1180300
You can’t go sailing without a lot of rum can you?


The cooldown on assigning generals to armies was not too popular when we talked about it, so instead we now have a system where it takes time until you get the benefits of a new general in your army. This time is connected to the travel time it takes from your capital to the army, and some extra time for the character to get up to speed. This will make assigning generals and admirals much more of a strategic choice.


One topic that has been raised in various map talks we have had has been the lack of ethno-religions. Now we have made it so we can lock some religions from allowing their pops to be assimilated before they can be converted.

View attachment 1180299
Yes, there is more than one israelite religion…

Stay tuned, as next week, Winter is coming…
Is there any difference in cost or build time to build in your own province versus abroad? Would be a little silly if it were just as easy to build a mission in the heart of the newly explored new world as it would be to build a church in Lisbon.
 
How long will it take to get the value/investment back from those foreign buildings? Because it feels like if I plan on conquering anyone in the next 100 years I shouldn't build my buildings there because they will destroy them after the war. Also, I'm probably not going to build them somewhere further away than that because diplomacy is limited and I'm not going to waste it on improving opinion with someone who is far away.

Another question is, what happens to foreign buildings once we conquer the province with that building?

It depends on what you want to do really. If you are planning to conquer an area, you wont build up that much.

but conquest is probably more expensive.. hmmm
 
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Admittedly seemingly unrelated to buildings, but... do markets have tariffs?

no, we have no tariff system done yet. its hard to make it good when markets are not being exact country borders.
 
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So interesting thing is that player in game opinion toward ai is more important than eu4?
So worsening relation diplo action would be useful

yes
 
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no, we have no tariff system done yet. its hard to make it good when markets are not being exact country borders.

Most of the gameplay mechanics in project caesar are groundbreaking and at the same time fundamentalist intellectually speaking. However, i feel like the market system is not up to the level of most other new mechanics, feels too arcade-ish and close to EU3 and EU4, still. Imho the system of blobs of regional monopolies is not inmersive enough.

Each province should have some kind of gravitatorial pull and push, with surrounding provinces having weighted values. The system should be dynamic.

The trade map on the mediterranean should be full of lines and look like so:

psilocybin_networks_660.jpg


As an aside, it's not exactly what we need here, but the 2003 game Railroad Tycoon 3 has in my knowledge the best geographic simulation of supply and demand of goods in real time.
 
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Most of the gameplay mechanics in project caesar are groundbreaking and at the same time fundamentalist intellectually speaking. However, i feel like the market system is not up to the level of most other new mechanics, feels too arcade-ish and close to EU3 and EU4, still. Imho the system of blobs of regional monopolies is not inmersive enough.

Each province should have some kind of gravitatorial pull and push, with surrounding provinces having weighted values. The system should be dynamic.

The trade map on the mediterranean should be full of lines and look like so:

psilocybin_networks_660.jpg


As an aside, it's not exactly what we need here, but the 2003 game Railroad Tycoon 3 has in my knowledge the best geographic simulation of supply and demand of goods in real time.
The system is dynamic, and each province change market according to the market attraction of the market centre: having a market centre in each province is, imo, unrealistic and very very difficault to implement in game (also very performance-killing)
 
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