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Tinto Talks #37 - 13th of November 2024

Hello everyone and welcome to another Tinto Talks. This is the Happy Wednesday, the day of the week where we tell you information about our super secret game with the code name Project Caesar.

This week we will talk about art and culture; not why it's important to the world, but the impact it has in our game. To begin with, every Culture in Project Caesar has two important attributes: Cultural Influence and Cultural Tradition.

Cultural Influence

This is the attack power of a culture in the context of culture war, representing how impressive it appears to other cultures, and the reach it has beyond its own borders.

It has a monthly increase depending on prestige, some cultural buildings and also increases upon the completion of a work of art.

influence_1.png

The influence of the English is weak… for now..


Cultural Tradition

This is the defense power of a culture in the context of culture war, representing how strongly this culture's traditions resonate with its people.
Tradition has a monthly change dependent on relevant buildings, but also on the amount of art you have in your country. The average literacy of your nobles also have a significant impact on your cultural tradition as well.

cultural_tradition.png

Some nested tooltips, you can also see the details of every location by hovering over that value as well..

As you may see in the screenshot above, the primary culture of the country is the one benefiting from your art and nobles.


Culture War
So what is cultural influence and cultural tradition impacting then. Well, we have this concept called Culture War which impacts several aspects of the game. For the part where culture is relevant, the cultural influence of the “attacking” culture is compared against the cultural tradition of the “defending” culture. If it's positive you will get bonuses, but if it's negative, you will face penalties.

There are plenty of diplomatic actions where having a dominant culture is a benefit for the other country to accept your deals, not to mention the fact that building a spy network is far faster if you have a cultural dominance.

This also has an impact if you have conquered some land and want to integrate it, as if your cultural influence is bigger than their traditions you will integrate the territory faster. This is also valid if you want to annex a subject.

You also assimilate people faster if you have a higher cultural influence than the pop’s culture’s traditions. There is also a small impact on sieges as well.



Cultural Investment
One of the most important advances in the Age of Renaissance is the ‘Patron of the Arts’, this one is early in the part of the tree that requires the Renaissance Institution, and it allows you to invest into culture. The cost of this depends on the size of the economy and how many artists you wish to employ.

patron.png

How can you be a renaissance man without sponsoring the arts?

There is a direct impact from the investment you make each month on your prestige as well as an impact on the skill of the artists and the art they create.

There are some countries outside of Europe that already start with advances that unlock investing into culture.

Artists
These are characters that appear in countries that are investing into culture. They will spend their time creating new art, or figuring out what art they should create. They will also increase their skill over time, depending on how much money you will throw at them. If you get frustrated with them not producing new art, you can always commission art directly by throwing even more money at them.

Various buildings and advances can impact the skill floor and ceiling of a new artist as well.

artist.png

One artist that exists at the start of the game..

If you have less than double the number of the supported artists in your country, you can always poach an artist from a smaller and less rich country. That artist will then move to your country and all the art they create will benefit you, however the influence of the culture of the country you invited him from will increase.

There are several different types of artists, and they create different types of art.
  • Painter
    • This type of artist creates images by depicting the world or purely from their imagination. It is done by applying pigment, coal or other sources of colors to a solid surface like a canvas or a wall. Famous painters of the era include Leonardo Da Vinci, Rembrandt, and Raphael.
  • Sculptor
    • A sculptor shapes clay, stone, marble, wood, and other materials into art. Famous sculptors of the era include Donatello, Michelangelo, and Gianlorenzo Bernini.
  • Composer
    • This is an artist that creates music, including anything from a motet to a symphony. Famous composers of the era include Johan Sebastian Bach, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, and Carl Michael Bellman.
  • Writer
    • A writer describes artists that can write anything from a poem to a novel, as well as writing entire plays. Famous writers of the era include William Shakespeare and many more of lesser talent.
  • Architect
    • Architects are the artists that design the buildings that create the beauty of our cities. This also includes monuments, mansions and palaces. Famous architects of the era include Minar Sinan, Christopher Wren, and Michelangelo.
  • Philosopher
    • This type of artist defines reality and helps us shape our understanding of our existence. Famous philosophers of the era include René Descartes, Immanuel Kant, and Baruch Spinoza.
  • Jurist
    • An expert in legal matters, proficient in analyzing and commenting on the different legal codes. Famous Jurists of the era include Bartolus de Saxoferrato, Francisco de Vitoria, and Jeremy Bentham.
  • Scientist
    • A person of knowledge and a scholar of thought, questioning the aspects of nature which have been granted as given in the past. Famous Scientists of the era include Isaac Newton, Leonardo da Vinci, and Joseph Fourier.
  • Iconographer - Only for certain religions
    • Iconographers create religious icons. Famous iconographers of the era include Eulalios, Georgios Kallergis, and Manuel Panselinos.
  • Metalsmith - if you have metallurgy
    • Metalsmiths are skilled artificers, capable of creating anything from decorative weapons to kingly regalia. Famous metalsmiths of the era include Johann Joseph Würth, Vidal Astori, and Jehan Cambier.


Works of Art
A work of art is something that an artist has created. When the art is created, it will directly increase the cultural influence of the primary culture of the country that the artist is working in. Not all artists will necessarily live in a capital, or create their art there either.


work_of_art.png

There is of course art already present at the start of the game..


When a location is conquered through a siege or normal occupation, there is a chance for Works of Art to be looted or destroyed. If it's looted, it will be transferred to your capital, so you can create a nice Museum a few centuries later. Having some art in your country has some benefits, increasing your prestige and traditions.


art_in_country.png

You might become more innovative if you have lots of art though..

There is also a direct benefit to all locations that have works of art as well, depending on how much of the art you have, and it provides some good benefits.

art_in_location.png

A true melting pot..

Prestige
This is a concept that has existed in many of our previous GSG and it is present on Project Caesar as well. Here it's a value between 0 and 100 and will decay to 0 if nothing else increases it, where the decay is bigger the higher the prestige is.

Prestige in this game is heavily tied to the cultural part of the game, but it also has an impact on diplomacy and trade.


prestige.png

If the nobles were just a little bit more happy…


Stay tuned, as next week we will go into detail about all the societal values we have.
 
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I would suggest that work of arts are divided in three (and a half) types:
-Regular ones. Pantings, sculptures and icons. You would also included here the work of metalsmiths, but I would propose that metalsmith works give less cultural value (which seems about right) and instead provide some unique benefits, such as bonus legitimacy if its a crown.
*Architects would produce a unique type of "regular art", one that can't be looted from where its located and that provides some local bonuses (as its ultimately a building that has an "actual purpose" and not just aesthetics). To compensate it could take longer to make (which is historical) so on average an architect would be able to accomplish less works of art than a painter.
-Intangible art. That would be the work of composers and writers. Realistically it should work diferently than a painting, this isn't a masterful work of art that you possess, but rather something that spreads around (and increases your cultural influence as it does so). Not sure of the exact mechanics, but hopefully they can be made to work a bit diferently.
-Treaties and essays. The work of scientists, philosophers and jurists. Not only are they intangible like novels, but they aren't really "art" per say, their value isn't an aesthetic one. As such I believe their cultural bonus should be lower than that of novels, and instead provide some bonus to technological and societal advancement, both to the country that produced them, but also, to a lesser degree, to other countries where the treaties may have spread, after all its not just the host country that benefits from the scientific study, the better the work is, and the more other countries want to embrace it (for its bonuses) the greater the cultural bonuses a treaty would provide for the country it was produced in.
 
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yes. if its art in your capital, its YOUR culture.
Sorry, but the last few TTs have had elements I don't like. This is one of them.

For cultural power, I'd prefer something like this. Terminology probably can use improvent.

Split the power into tradition and current cultural power. Total cultural power is the sum of tradition and current cultural power.

Tradition is gained by
- Having an artist appear in your country.
- Having a work of art created in your country.
- Having a work of art created that glorifies your country. National epics and such.

Tradition is transfered by
- Having an artist move from one country to another. This is less than the amount gained from first appearence, so some remains in the country of origin. Perhaps half and half. If the artist moves again, the 2nd country's share is split and the original country's share is not affected.
- Annexing a country with tradition. All is not gained, the amount gained is more in peaceful annexations and more when the cultures are closer together. Aliens from outer space (zero cultural connection) completely razing and annexing a country get nothing, so in that case all would be lost.
- Having a new country appear from a country with tradition. Details to be worked out. If the country has existed before, and had some tradition, then that could be used as base if the value was stored somewhere.

Current cultural power is gained by
- Having an artist reside in your country.
- Having works of art reside in your country.
- Having works of art that glorify your country in existance, no matter where they are located.

Also, I'd like to see that scientists, jurists and such affect areas other than cultural power (but they can also have cultural impact!), like suggested in many posts.
 
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With dynamic art names, do they take then from in game events? Like, will a painter make a painting of a battle with information about what the war was about and where it was? Or things like a royal marriage or personal union's establishment?
 
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Is there a way to avoid the destruction of Work of Arts when you're besieging an enemy province? Maybe one of your war objectives is to capture the cultural legacy of a nation and you want to totally forbbiden your troops from looting and destroying the art works (They won't obey if the corruption is high, tho).
 
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Or any other colonial power, Rijksmuseum, Prado, even like the Uffisi is in that category.

The British museum is definitely the worst about how they handle the situation today, so they rightly are the big example.
I'm sorry, but what piece of "stolen colonial art" is in El Prado?
 
The Prado definitely has quite a few paintings from the Spanish Netherlands.

And I don't doubt you can name the museum were the Spanish colonial loot ended up better than I can :)

My point wasn't to point a finger, just to indicate that that the British Museum is rightly the correct example for how to not handle the situation.
 
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Will there be ways to influence the... "relocation" of works of art, like for example particular traits for generals? (thinking about Vic3, where traits of militar commanders can have more peculiar impacts)
This way, something like the Napoleonic campaigns (or other examples) could be reflected more accurately.

Also, will there be an option to rebuild architectural work of arts? Maybe something like Great Project in EU4 which have "levels" (not saying it would work the same, but maybe architectural works of art, or at least the better made ones would be "deactivated", and would require money to bring back the positive modifiers)

As always, though, great dev diary!
 
Can we rename the produced artworks?
 
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they are abstracted in that the original work that is important
Could such works be made partially indestructible in that case? As in always contributing to their native culture’s traditions even if stollen/destroyed, to represent that the copies are almost as valuable as the originals (true for printed works in particular).
no, you have no control over its destruction, as soldiers are unruly when sacking.
Perhaps there should be ways to influence this? For example more disciplined armies being (somewhat) more restrained, or offering bonuses and threatening punishments for when notable art is captured or destroyed respectively. Obviously no direct control but ways to tip the scales at some sort of cost.

Anyways I want to ask how asymilation works for tolerated and accepted cultures, and even primary cultures in cases where a populous culture with strong traditions is ruled over by a less populous culture with weak traditions. That last one might be too much of an edge case, but for France in particular I’d expect assimilation towards the primary cultures despite most French cultures being accepted. Or is it expected that increased opinions between cultures (the German cultures becoming “kindred” for example) will represent the way cultural convergence occurred in this period? With how important primary culture population seems to be in not sure that is a sufficient solution.
 
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Maybe it's just me, but outside of prestige effects, I don't get why "art" would increase pop assimilation. It's not like the English showed the Native Americans the Bayeux Tapestry and the natives suddenly thought hey, being Catholic Anglican and English is better than living our way! The Prussians certainly didn't show the Poles their marching songs, they repressed the latter's culture and religion very heavily, to the point that the Poles viewed Napoleon as their liberator and voluntarily joined his armies against their partitioners.

I liked how Imperator Rome approached this culture stuff way better through government policies for each culture.
 
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