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Tinto Talks #37 - 13th of November 2024

Hello everyone and welcome to another Tinto Talks. This is the Happy Wednesday, the day of the week where we tell you information about our super secret game with the code name Project Caesar.

This week we will talk about art and culture; not why it's important to the world, but the impact it has in our game. To begin with, every Culture in Project Caesar has two important attributes: Cultural Influence and Cultural Tradition.

Cultural Influence

This is the attack power of a culture in the context of culture war, representing how impressive it appears to other cultures, and the reach it has beyond its own borders.

It has a monthly increase depending on prestige, some cultural buildings and also increases upon the completion of a work of art.

influence_1.png

The influence of the English is weak… for now..


Cultural Tradition

This is the defense power of a culture in the context of culture war, representing how strongly this culture's traditions resonate with its people.
Tradition has a monthly change dependent on relevant buildings, but also on the amount of art you have in your country. The average literacy of your nobles also have a significant impact on your cultural tradition as well.

cultural_tradition.png

Some nested tooltips, you can also see the details of every location by hovering over that value as well..

As you may see in the screenshot above, the primary culture of the country is the one benefiting from your art and nobles.


Culture War
So what is cultural influence and cultural tradition impacting then. Well, we have this concept called Culture War which impacts several aspects of the game. For the part where culture is relevant, the cultural influence of the “attacking” culture is compared against the cultural tradition of the “defending” culture. If it's positive you will get bonuses, but if it's negative, you will face penalties.

There are plenty of diplomatic actions where having a dominant culture is a benefit for the other country to accept your deals, not to mention the fact that building a spy network is far faster if you have a cultural dominance.

This also has an impact if you have conquered some land and want to integrate it, as if your cultural influence is bigger than their traditions you will integrate the territory faster. This is also valid if you want to annex a subject.

You also assimilate people faster if you have a higher cultural influence than the pop’s culture’s traditions. There is also a small impact on sieges as well.



Cultural Investment
One of the most important advances in the Age of Renaissance is the ‘Patron of the Arts’, this one is early in the part of the tree that requires the Renaissance Institution, and it allows you to invest into culture. The cost of this depends on the size of the economy and how many artists you wish to employ.

patron.png

How can you be a renaissance man without sponsoring the arts?

There is a direct impact from the investment you make each month on your prestige as well as an impact on the skill of the artists and the art they create.

There are some countries outside of Europe that already start with advances that unlock investing into culture.

Artists
These are characters that appear in countries that are investing into culture. They will spend their time creating new art, or figuring out what art they should create. They will also increase their skill over time, depending on how much money you will throw at them. If you get frustrated with them not producing new art, you can always commission art directly by throwing even more money at them.

Various buildings and advances can impact the skill floor and ceiling of a new artist as well.

artist.png

One artist that exists at the start of the game..

If you have less than double the number of the supported artists in your country, you can always poach an artist from a smaller and less rich country. That artist will then move to your country and all the art they create will benefit you, however the influence of the culture of the country you invited him from will increase.

There are several different types of artists, and they create different types of art.
  • Painter
    • This type of artist creates images by depicting the world or purely from their imagination. It is done by applying pigment, coal or other sources of colors to a solid surface like a canvas or a wall. Famous painters of the era include Leonardo Da Vinci, Rembrandt, and Raphael.
  • Sculptor
    • A sculptor shapes clay, stone, marble, wood, and other materials into art. Famous sculptors of the era include Donatello, Michelangelo, and Gianlorenzo Bernini.
  • Composer
    • This is an artist that creates music, including anything from a motet to a symphony. Famous composers of the era include Johan Sebastian Bach, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, and Carl Michael Bellman.
  • Writer
    • A writer describes artists that can write anything from a poem to a novel, as well as writing entire plays. Famous writers of the era include William Shakespeare and many more of lesser talent.
  • Architect
    • Architects are the artists that design the buildings that create the beauty of our cities. This also includes monuments, mansions and palaces. Famous architects of the era include Minar Sinan, Christopher Wren, and Michelangelo.
  • Philosopher
    • This type of artist defines reality and helps us shape our understanding of our existence. Famous philosophers of the era include René Descartes, Immanuel Kant, and Baruch Spinoza.
  • Jurist
    • An expert in legal matters, proficient in analyzing and commenting on the different legal codes. Famous Jurists of the era include Bartolus de Saxoferrato, Francisco de Vitoria, and Jeremy Bentham.
  • Scientist
    • A person of knowledge and a scholar of thought, questioning the aspects of nature which have been granted as given in the past. Famous Scientists of the era include Isaac Newton, Leonardo da Vinci, and Joseph Fourier.
  • Iconographer - Only for certain religions
    • Iconographers create religious icons. Famous iconographers of the era include Eulalios, Georgios Kallergis, and Manuel Panselinos.
  • Metalsmith - if you have metallurgy
    • Metalsmiths are skilled artificers, capable of creating anything from decorative weapons to kingly regalia. Famous metalsmiths of the era include Johann Joseph Würth, Vidal Astori, and Jehan Cambier.


Works of Art
A work of art is something that an artist has created. When the art is created, it will directly increase the cultural influence of the primary culture of the country that the artist is working in. Not all artists will necessarily live in a capital, or create their art there either.


work_of_art.png

There is of course art already present at the start of the game..


When a location is conquered through a siege or normal occupation, there is a chance for Works of Art to be looted or destroyed. If it's looted, it will be transferred to your capital, so you can create a nice Museum a few centuries later. Having some art in your country has some benefits, increasing your prestige and traditions.


art_in_country.png

You might become more innovative if you have lots of art though..

There is also a direct benefit to all locations that have works of art as well, depending on how much of the art you have, and it provides some good benefits.

art_in_location.png

A true melting pot..

Prestige
This is a concept that has existed in many of our previous GSG and it is present on Project Caesar as well. Here it's a value between 0 and 100 and will decay to 0 if nothing else increases it, where the decay is bigger the higher the prestige is.

Prestige in this game is heavily tied to the cultural part of the game, but it also has an impact on diplomacy and trade.


prestige.png

If the nobles were just a little bit more happy…


Stay tuned, as next week we will go into detail about all the societal values we have.
 
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Having mathematically better and worse cultures in game is... probably not a good idea and is almost guaranteed to veer off in very racist directions very easily. It's also absolutely going to pander to the worst parts of the community. Can't say I'm a very big fan of this feature.
 
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Question: ¿When you say occupation could bring you to stole art works, is annexation or occupying the province in a war, even if you dont take it in the peace treaty? The second would make sense

Maybe unrelated, but did you think about maluses if your capital is occupied in war?? Not only warscore but some reasonable maluses (and also to protect your museums). This would make warfare more strategic as you need more to protect the capital and earn more taking the enemies one
 
Maybe it's just me, but outside of prestige effects, I don't get why "art" would increase pop assimilation. It's not like the English showed the Native Americans the Bayeux Tapestry and the natives suddenly thought hey, being Catholic and English is better than living our way!

No one said that the effects of cultural influence upon assimilation rates were going to be so overwhelming as to negate all the other factors which make a culture more resistant to being assimilated. Johan simply said that cultural influence would be *a* factor which contributes to cultural assimilation, which is fairly reasonable in historical terms. If, say, France during the Enlightenment produces Europe's most prominent philosophers, writers and scientists, then surely this should make things a little bit easier when it comes to assimilating France's diverse pops into the main primary culture (i.e. Francien/Parisian), since it is the lingua franca for much of the culture of that age. Soft power is definitely a thing that exists.
 
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Cultural Investment
One of the most important advances in the Age of Renaissance is the ‘Patron of the Arts’, this one is early in the part of the tree that requires the Renaissance Institution, and it allows you to invest into culture.

Artists
These are characters that appear in countries that are investing into culture.
Does this mean that countries without the Renaissance can't have artists appearing?
 
If, say, France during the Enlightenment produces Europe's most prominent philosophers, writers and scientists, then surely this should make things a little bit easier when it comes to assimilating France's diverse pops into the main primary culture (i.e. Francien/Parisian), since it is the lingua franca for much of the culture of that age. Soft power is definitely a thing that exists.
Greek refugees spearheaded the Italian Renaissance but the Italians didn't suddenly felt like being Greeks, nor did the rest of Europe wanted to become Italians once the the latter exported their renaissance-ness elsewhere. I mean, you can say the same about the Islamic Golden Age, where it was led by translations of ancient Greek, Latin and Indian books into Arabic, yet the Middle East and the rest of the Arabic world stayed practically the same.

From a historical perspective, I don't get it. Prestige effects, sure, showing off that your culture is superior, sure! But not pop assimilation.
 
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So how does cultures work with ethnicities? In previous games (CK3, Vic 3 and Imperator) each culture has a set of 1 to 3 and more ethnicities that would give a general look to characters. If Cultures can have influence and culture wars now, what will happen with the ethnicities? Will they suddenly turn from darkest Tamil guy to whitest Portugese guy? Or will culture and ethnicity remain, but their clothing, architecture and unit models will change to that one that influenced them? Or this influence and culture war are just nominal thing that doesnt affect neither gameplay neither graphics?
 
Can certain works of are be trade? Used as collaterale for loans with banking nations? Cam banking nations and other non landed nations commision works of art / have artists? If an estate can't commision a work of art can they still sponsor it reducing the cost for the country but at an expence like increase in estate influence or lower artwork benefit?
 
Having mathematically better and worse cultures in game is... probably not a good idea and is almost guaranteed to veer off in very racist directions very easily. It's also absolutely going to pander to the worst parts of the community. Can't say I'm a very big fan of this feature.
Me modding African and European Swallow cultures and finally finding out which is better at exporting coconuts.
 
Greek refugees spearheaded the Italian Renaissance but the Italians didn't suddenly felt like being Greeks, nor did the rest of Europe wanted to become Italians once the the latter exported their renaissance-ness elsewhere. I mean, you can say the same about the Islamic Golden Age, where it was led by translations of ancient Greek, Latin and Indian books into Arabic, yet the Middle East stayed practically the same.

From a historical perspective, I don't get it. Prestige effects, sure, showing off that your culture is superior, sure! But not pop assimilation.
If those same Italians which had been fascinated by Greek culture were then conquered by a Greek kingdom, don't you think that their new government would have, at least, a slightly easier time assimilating them if it wanted to? I'd say yes, since those Italians would be more familiar with, and receptive towards, Greece's language and traditions than if they hadn't been previously influenced by its remarkable cultural productions.
 
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  • Painter
    • [...] Leonardo Da Vinci, Rembrandt, and Raphael.
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  • Scientist
    • [...], Leonardo da Vinci, and Joseph Fourier.
I wonder how many Leonardos we can get at once and if there will be any achievement about that.
 
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If those same Italians which had been fascinated by Greek culture were then conquered by a Greek kingdom, don't you think that their new government would have, at least, a slightly easier time assimilating them if it wanted to? I'd say yes, since those Italians would be more familiar with, and receptive towards, Greece's language and traditions than if they hadn't been previously influenced by its remarkable cultural productions.
IMHO, not really, since the Greeks, Albanians, Serbians, and Bulgarians largely survived the Ottoman Empire, but this is more on its government policies than anything else. I don't think Ottoman art or its architectural wonders would've helped with that.
 
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I'm surprised to see no Inventor (for the English), Calligrapher (for Asian or Arab cultures) or Historian as types of artists. How moddable is the system?
yeah caligrapher would be cool. were caligraphers exclusively caligraphers? like were they also the "court" artists or nah?
 
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View attachment 1215771View attachment 1215772
Are these numbers based on how much of the world you know of? Otherwise one artwork shouldn't come out to a 2% difference to the total number of artworks in the world, unless of course you took these screenshots at different points of the game (which I doubt).
The degree of good it is probably has some impact. 3 of Venice's artworks are much better than england’s in these screenshot. Not mention assumedly magnum opus is the best and is rare
 
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