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Tinto Talks #37 - 13th of November 2024

Hello everyone and welcome to another Tinto Talks. This is the Happy Wednesday, the day of the week where we tell you information about our super secret game with the code name Project Caesar.

This week we will talk about art and culture; not why it's important to the world, but the impact it has in our game. To begin with, every Culture in Project Caesar has two important attributes: Cultural Influence and Cultural Tradition.

Cultural Influence

This is the attack power of a culture in the context of culture war, representing how impressive it appears to other cultures, and the reach it has beyond its own borders.

It has a monthly increase depending on prestige, some cultural buildings and also increases upon the completion of a work of art.

influence_1.png

The influence of the English is weak… for now..


Cultural Tradition

This is the defense power of a culture in the context of culture war, representing how strongly this culture's traditions resonate with its people.
Tradition has a monthly change dependent on relevant buildings, but also on the amount of art you have in your country. The average literacy of your nobles also have a significant impact on your cultural tradition as well.

cultural_tradition.png

Some nested tooltips, you can also see the details of every location by hovering over that value as well..

As you may see in the screenshot above, the primary culture of the country is the one benefiting from your art and nobles.


Culture War
So what is cultural influence and cultural tradition impacting then. Well, we have this concept called Culture War which impacts several aspects of the game. For the part where culture is relevant, the cultural influence of the “attacking” culture is compared against the cultural tradition of the “defending” culture. If it's positive you will get bonuses, but if it's negative, you will face penalties.

There are plenty of diplomatic actions where having a dominant culture is a benefit for the other country to accept your deals, not to mention the fact that building a spy network is far faster if you have a cultural dominance.

This also has an impact if you have conquered some land and want to integrate it, as if your cultural influence is bigger than their traditions you will integrate the territory faster. This is also valid if you want to annex a subject.

You also assimilate people faster if you have a higher cultural influence than the pop’s culture’s traditions. There is also a small impact on sieges as well.



Cultural Investment
One of the most important advances in the Age of Renaissance is the ‘Patron of the Arts’, this one is early in the part of the tree that requires the Renaissance Institution, and it allows you to invest into culture. The cost of this depends on the size of the economy and how many artists you wish to employ.

patron.png

How can you be a renaissance man without sponsoring the arts?

There is a direct impact from the investment you make each month on your prestige as well as an impact on the skill of the artists and the art they create.

There are some countries outside of Europe that already start with advances that unlock investing into culture.

Artists
These are characters that appear in countries that are investing into culture. They will spend their time creating new art, or figuring out what art they should create. They will also increase their skill over time, depending on how much money you will throw at them. If you get frustrated with them not producing new art, you can always commission art directly by throwing even more money at them.

Various buildings and advances can impact the skill floor and ceiling of a new artist as well.

artist.png

One artist that exists at the start of the game..

If you have less than double the number of the supported artists in your country, you can always poach an artist from a smaller and less rich country. That artist will then move to your country and all the art they create will benefit you, however the influence of the culture of the country you invited him from will increase.

There are several different types of artists, and they create different types of art.
  • Painter
    • This type of artist creates images by depicting the world or purely from their imagination. It is done by applying pigment, coal or other sources of colors to a solid surface like a canvas or a wall. Famous painters of the era include Leonardo Da Vinci, Rembrandt, and Raphael.
  • Sculptor
    • A sculptor shapes clay, stone, marble, wood, and other materials into art. Famous sculptors of the era include Donatello, Michelangelo, and Gianlorenzo Bernini.
  • Composer
    • This is an artist that creates music, including anything from a motet to a symphony. Famous composers of the era include Johan Sebastian Bach, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, and Carl Michael Bellman.
  • Writer
    • A writer describes artists that can write anything from a poem to a novel, as well as writing entire plays. Famous writers of the era include William Shakespeare and many more of lesser talent.
  • Architect
    • Architects are the artists that design the buildings that create the beauty of our cities. This also includes monuments, mansions and palaces. Famous architects of the era include Minar Sinan, Christopher Wren, and Michelangelo.
  • Philosopher
    • This type of artist defines reality and helps us shape our understanding of our existence. Famous philosophers of the era include René Descartes, Immanuel Kant, and Baruch Spinoza.
  • Jurist
    • An expert in legal matters, proficient in analyzing and commenting on the different legal codes. Famous Jurists of the era include Bartolus de Saxoferrato, Francisco de Vitoria, and Jeremy Bentham.
  • Scientist
    • A person of knowledge and a scholar of thought, questioning the aspects of nature which have been granted as given in the past. Famous Scientists of the era include Isaac Newton, Leonardo da Vinci, and Joseph Fourier.
  • Iconographer - Only for certain religions
    • Iconographers create religious icons. Famous iconographers of the era include Eulalios, Georgios Kallergis, and Manuel Panselinos.
  • Metalsmith - if you have metallurgy
    • Metalsmiths are skilled artificers, capable of creating anything from decorative weapons to kingly regalia. Famous metalsmiths of the era include Johann Joseph Würth, Vidal Astori, and Jehan Cambier.


Works of Art
A work of art is something that an artist has created. When the art is created, it will directly increase the cultural influence of the primary culture of the country that the artist is working in. Not all artists will necessarily live in a capital, or create their art there either.


work_of_art.png

There is of course art already present at the start of the game..


When a location is conquered through a siege or normal occupation, there is a chance for Works of Art to be looted or destroyed. If it's looted, it will be transferred to your capital, so you can create a nice Museum a few centuries later. Having some art in your country has some benefits, increasing your prestige and traditions.


art_in_country.png

You might become more innovative if you have lots of art though..

There is also a direct benefit to all locations that have works of art as well, depending on how much of the art you have, and it provides some good benefits.

art_in_location.png

A true melting pot..

Prestige
This is a concept that has existed in many of our previous GSG and it is present on Project Caesar as well. Here it's a value between 0 and 100 and will decay to 0 if nothing else increases it, where the decay is bigger the higher the prestige is.

Prestige in this game is heavily tied to the cultural part of the game, but it also has an impact on diplomacy and trade.


prestige.png

If the nobles were just a little bit more happy…


Stay tuned, as next week we will go into detail about all the societal values we have.
 
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I have somewhat mixed feelings on this on one hand i think its very daring and also exciting because this is clearly a very new dynamic to not just the EU franchise but to most PDX GS games and that is generally something i think that should be encouraged and lauded. This is clearly a significant expansion of the cultural system moreso than any other PDX game has gone for and im really excited to see what else you guys have in store for us. But on the other hand its also does seem clearly extremely eurocentric moreso than even other parts of the game as the example below shows.
think they are "painters"
Obviously this is not an exclamation that the whole system is bad or anything but i do feel that if it is to be fully incorporated it should also be able to represent the diverse phenomenon of human cultural phenomenon and not just be wholly restricted to Europe. Obviously i understand this system is very much based around historical periods such as the the Renaissance and the Enlightment so i think a moderate amount of Eurocentricity is unavoidable and what not but to not even include a single artist or great person from outside Europe or even a category for Calligraphers only for them to be over generalized and blobbed in with the rest of the "Artist" does feel a bit disrespectful to put it as nicely as possible. Are the pre existing works of art and historical artists or even the entire system itself only localized within Europe? There are countless great artists and people in China, Korea Japan, the middle east and India, will those areas only have randomized dynamic artists popping up? For example like Wu Cheng'en 吴承恩 who wrote the massively influential Journey to the West. Im assuming so because quite literally not a single one of them was mentioned in this dev diary not even one lol. This isn't even to mention the more peripheral regions which still have a plethora of great artists and people to choose from like Sequoyah who created the Cherokee Syllabary.
 
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I'm seeing that tradition and influence both depend on adding modifiers for separate countries together. However I'm also seeing the art advance "The cost of this depends on the size of the economy". Does that mean cultures with many countries are more likely to advance faster than cultures in a single large state?


Also do related cultures get a bonus from their relatives influence? I'm thinking Occitan poetry might reflect well on French culture for example.
 
How are they functionally different?
I can't speak for chinees Calligraphy but in islamic world it was more about reproducing quran and hadith in beautiful ways(although it was used in other contexts but those were not considered that important) while painting wasn't necessarly religious and tended to be more broder in concepts but I undrestand if PC decided to lump them togather it just it would be a nice flavour difference to have also if different categories ended up with defferent bonuses it would be a shame if Calligraphy and painting ended up having the same modifiers even though they were used differently
 
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I wonder if there will be a tradeoff-system like

i can become a very creative artsy Country .... OR .. i can become a very militaristic disiplined county
but getting both would be difficult or have its price.
 
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For cultures where knowledge is preserved orally that historically had strong traditions despite not being literate, is there any specific way for them to increase cultural traditions? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the oral traditions of many cultures were able to stand the test of time and many illiterate cultures were resistant to assimilation. The griots and other oral historians should be an important component.
 
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No. Scientists write books and thesises

Research and Progress are done by Engineers. (not present in game atm.. sorry) :p
Scientists not contributing to scientific research is like generals not being allowed to lead armies lmao
 
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What is the historical precedent for culture wars?

Edit: Maybe like how England was able to almost completely and totally assimilate the Irish, but the Germans couldn't assimilate the Czechs?
 
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I think that the problem with the feature is that culture is something so abstract that's not easy to translate into numbers and transform it into a meaningful mechanic. Prestige is important and art certainly helps a country build a reputation, but it's impossible to assert how much of that prestige is due to culture and how much to other things. And obviously things like assimilation are complex phenomena that also are difficult to translate into numbers and calculations. If the US were to annex a country now, would Hollywood movies make it easier to assimilate the culture of the invaded country? Maybe they would, but by how much?
Maybe culture should just be an aspect of the people, and the state or polity should be able to control their ebb and flow. Instead of culture wars, why not just go back to the old way of Paradox treating cultures with adjectives, aspects, and traditions, then having these cultures rise and fall through government policies repressing, accepting, integrating, or assimilating the pops?

Maybe it's just another way of introducing 4x Civilization mechanics in the game with cultural, military, naval, trade victories, and whatnot. Not saying that they're bad, Stellaris have them, but a "culture wars" feature is perhaps not the right way of doing this.
 
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