Tinto Talks #38 - 20th of November 2024

[Johan]

Is the Magna Carta a revokable priviledge?

its a government reform.

 

[Johan]

Wow that's a lot of them! I didn't realize there would be that many!

One problem immediately becomes apparent to me: The negative modifiers seem much weaker than the positive ones in many cases. As a result of this, being balanced in a value is a bad idea, and you really only ever want to be at the extreme end of a value.

Is that intended? I don't think it should be the case.

Its not easy to get to extremes though.

 

[Johan]

From what I understand, each societal value will move towards one extreme or another. Won't it be better to have it try to reach an equilibrium like estate loyalty or prestige? For example the current system for serfs basically forces you overtime into either tsarist russia or the US, when I.think that maxing on either + or - 100 has to be very complicated so that the bonuses are earned, like trying to have and maintain 100 prestige in eu4.

There are equlibrium points, but its not finished yet.

 

[Johan]

what about a slider for meritocratic vs hereditary appointments? the former could encourage more ‘men of the dust’ able to be hired into cabinet with higher stats at the expense of court prestige or nobles happiness. The latter brings in powerful nobles with more legitimacy but more inconsistent skill.

there is a few privileges and laws for that

 

[Johan]

Secondly, I notice that most of the Societal Values have names that are the same as EU4 Idea Groups. I can't remember any mention of Idea Groups in Project Caesar, though I might have forgotten or missed one of the Dev Diaries (since we have been blessed with so many!). Would you like to confirm or deny whether Idea Groups will feature in this unnamed future game?

Eu4 idea groups took names from eu2/eu3 policy sliders.

 

[Johan]

Do societal values have content other than modifiers?

events?

impact and limits on what you can do?

yes

 

[Johan]

Can (and will) these mechanics also be tied to a religion? Like mysticism vs legalism for Islam

in theory that could have been a societal value.

 

[Johan]

We call the movement that started in 14th century Italy which focused on sudying the classical world and focused on what it means to be human (in contrast to religion) humanism.

Renaissance Humanism

Renaissance Humanism was an intellectual movement typified by a revived interest in the classical world and studies which focussed not on religion but on what it is to be human. Its origins went back...

www.worldhistory.org

aye. thats the name,

 

[Johan]

Do the modifiers change linearly with the societal value, or are they on some sort of curve? For example, at 100 offensive you get -50% fort defense, so what do you get at half that? -25% or something lower?

its linear

 

[Johan]

Will an innovative country, through direct or indirect means (literacy?), be able to pump out more technologies over the long run? Or do catch up mechanics negate that advantage leaving short term gains only if any

might be ahead by 1-2%

 

[Johan]

Subjective opinion, but I have some concerns that I can already see a heavy meta:

You'll always go Centralised rather than Decentralised.

You'll always go Innovative rather than Traditionalist.

You'll always go Free Subjects rather than Serfdom.

You'll always go Quality rather than Quantity.

You'll always go Offensive rather than Defensive.

You'll always go Capital Economy rather than Traditional Economy.

You'll always go Individualism rather than Communalism.

You'll always go Outward rather than Inward.


The only stuff that seems balanced is:

Liberalism vs Absolutism
Mercantilism vs Free Trade
Land vs Naval
Belligerent vs Conciliatory
Spiritualist vs Humanist

Ironically, I have notes to

"nerf decentralized and serfdom"

 

[Johan]

The societal value ranges from -100 to +100 , where a -100 value is completely to the left, and +100 to the right of the value.

you are correct.

 

[Johan]

What is dead may never die, but rises again, stronger than before.

We do not sow!

 

[Johan]

You could say this about any binary opposites, it's a design choice with pros and cons.

Personally I think positives of binaries in this case heavily outways the negatives that is the simplifications - as they're manifold and in unison creates nuances.

I agree with you.

 

[Johan]

Will there there be any drawbacks to the cabinet attempting to alter those values? For instance, I imagine peasants wouldn’t really be happy if the societal value shifted toward 'free subjects,' yet the cabinet pursued a move toward serfdom instead. Similarly, with the market and the burghers.

Could always have a "estate preference" for each societal value and make them happy/unhappy with promoting it..

 

[Johan]

It's not uncommon for parts of a game to be fully worked out in detail, just to be changed completely again during beta.

so true

 

[Johan]

It's not uncommon for parts of a game to be fully worked out in detail, just to be changed completely again during beta.

Or many many other times during development. The key thing is to get all core functionality into the game ASAP, and then keep iterating and/or fleshing them out over development.

 

[Johan]

How things are constructed in EU4, you can pick Offensive, Deffensive, Quality, Quantity, Mercenary, Maritime, Naval, and Aristocratic/Plutocratic in one game. Now, you have to choose your path, and, with increased bonuses for "less popular ideas" in EU4, sometimes offensive or land, won't be better in each playthrough.

You are correct, and it will make countries far more different.