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Tinto Talks #4 - March 20th, 2024

Welcome to the fourth iteration of Tinto Talks!

Today we’ll give you an overview of the different mechanics of the Government part of the game. There will be development diaries going into much more detail for these later on.

First of all, we have 5 different government types in the game, which determines a fair bit of what type of mechanics you get access to. As an example, a Republic does not have access to royal marriages, and a Steppe Horde has a different view on how war, peace and conquest works compared to other types of countries.

  • Monarchy, which uses Legitimacy
  • Republic, which uses Republican Tradition
  • Theocracy, which uses Devotion
  • Steppe Horde, which Horde Unity
  • Tribe, which uses Tribal Cohesion

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An illustration from our game..

These, together with country rank, government reform, and local flavor gives countries names like “Crown of Aragon,” “Kingdom of Sweden,” “Principality of Wales.” Not all countries are countries that are based on owning locations on a map though; more on that in later development diaries.

Each country also has a ruler, or they may be in a regency, if there are no possible adult heirs.

One of the most defining parts of the government of a country in Project Caesar is the Estates mechanic. This has been one of the core parts of the game, with a full connection between the population and the estates. Keeping the estates satisfied while keeping their powers low is an important part of the gameplay loop. In this game, the Estates are also active entities and will do things on their own if they get enough power.

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Two government reforms, one culture specific and one government specific.

As time passes, different government reforms and reform-slots will be available. They can also be based on tag, culture or religion.

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These are the two available possibilities in the Law 'Language of Pleading' for the country I tested.

Something that is different from a reform is what we call a Law. A Law can have several different policies you can pick from, and several laws have unique policies only available to certain tags, religions, cultures, government types or other factors.

There are some drawbacks to adding new reforms or policies though, as it takes a few years for it to have full effect, depending on your country's administrative efficiency. (Yes, it's a name for something else in another game, but it fits here.)

Regularly, if your government allows it, you can call in a Parliament. If you don’t do it often enough the estates will start to get irritated, but each parliament has issues that need to be resolved, and the estates will have agendas they want done for their support. Of course, you also have options to push through what you want from a parliament, if you are willing to accept the demands of the estate, like changing a particular law.

Another part of the government is the cabinet, which also grows in size as you become more advanced, allowing you to do more things. This is something that can be viewed as a hybrid between EU4 Advisors and the CK2 council actions.

Some of you may remember the domestic policies from EU2 and EU3. In Project Caesar we are bringing the idea back in the form of Societal Values. There are seven that we took from these games, one that was split in two, and we added four new ones, bringing the total to 13 different Societal Values. Societal Values are primarily affected by what other actions you do, like what policies you pick in a law, or what reforms you pick. As with so many other things in our game, this is not an instant action, but a gradual change over time.

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oh look, its eu3!

Next week, we will go into much more detail about estates and how they work.
 
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@Johan When you call in a Parliament, will the issues brought up there be tied to events in the world? For example, if a Location is pillaged during a war, will the Estates affected by this demand some form of relief (e.g., lowered taxes, funds, ...) or anything similar?
 
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@Johan

With the addition of a Victoria 3-esque pop system (simulating individual people), how will this game avoid some of the pitfalls that Victoria 3 struggled with regarding UI and presenting the information the player needs in a way the player can quickly and easily understand without bombarding the player with unnecessary information? For example if I wanted to figure out why 10 of my provinces were gaining unrest how many clicks and how much time would I need to spend figuring it out?

EUIV and HOI4 are two standout games in your roster in regards to their UI and how quickly the player can access information they want to see, and present them in ways that the player can easily understand, while Imperator and Victoria 3 both struggled with this issue.

So far I'm very excited for the new release!
 
@Johan

With the addition of a Victoria 3-esque pop system (simulating individual people), how will this game avoid some of the pitfalls that Victoria 3 struggled with regarding UI and presenting the information the player needs in a way the player can quickly and easily understand without bombarding the player with unnecessary information? For example if I wanted to figure out why 10 of my provinces were gaining unrest how many clicks and how much time would I need to spend figuring it out?

EUIV and HOI4 are two standout games in your roster in regards to their UI and how quickly the player can access information they want to see, and present them in ways that the player can easily understand, while Imperator and Victoria 3 both struggled with this issue.

So far I'm very excited for the new release!
One of the earlier Tinto Talks mentioned that the pop system will be simplified from Vic 3
 
I think the game will go to 1821 (or 1836) just like previous EUs. I think it's a very hard choice to cut it earlier than that. Another game that would cover the gap in between project Ceasar and VIC3 would have a lot of duplication in terms of mechanics if you're going to cover the period of let's say from 1700 to 1836. It can't be a war game only, spanning 136 years.
In any case, without pointing a specific reason gamers drop EU games before the end of the campaign, I suppose it's because of boredom, total dominance in the map (so again boredom) and general lack of challange. Maybe with project Ceasar, its new mechanics etc, will address some of these problems and offer a challange for you, the player, throughout the years/eras.
But maybe I'm wrong. Will see.

I do think stronger anti blobbing mechanics before the 1600s could help with that. Also no achievements for WC could make it so that the devs are free to create more limitations on conquest. With all the free flavor events 1444 and beyond being brought into EU5 there's no reason not to that time be in the game.
 
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Bumping my older post to this post as well--though, not trying to be annoying about it.
Will there be a multiplayer chat system? Such a thing was integral for the growth of EU4 and HOI4 MP, so I would like to see it make a return in EU5.
 
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its one of the possible backgrounds for a menu
Since you're looking for community input, I dislike the design choice popular in recent times which takes you outside of the map/game at large (ck3 doing this a lot) and prefer the way it was in EU4 and CK2 where the menus are on top of the map/game. I would at minimum request a setting to allow us to have menus more like EU4 where we are not taken out of the map if not simply avoiding fullscreen ck3 style menus at all costs. The data types and vibrancy displayed in EU4 with banners is also something that feels sorely missing from newer releases, the drop down menus are a massive downgrade from the situation banners. Which isn't to say menus shouldn't have beautiful and flavorful backgrounds, but that I think going along a more EU4-esque design choice would make for a better experience.
I would also say you should avoid "royal court" style mechanics which take you out of the world, I understand the idea in theory is court immersion in ck3 but I don't feel it really worked for that and especially don't feel it would fit a more europa style game, especially given all the pause events which interrupt the flow of MP.
While I'm standing on my soap box I'll throw in my 2 cents about mission trees, the game felt much more sandboxy and varied beforehand, while playing without flavored ones now feels kinda like you're just disadvantaged. To keep the world believable I think rather than Missions, the AI should have general historical and realpolitik informed goals along with historical events and such.
 
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Since you're looking for community input, I dislike the design choice popular in recent times which takes you outside of the map/game at large (ck3 doing this a lot) and prefer the way it was in EU4 and CK2 where the menus are on top of the map/game. I would at minimum request a setting to allow us to have menus more like EU4 where we are not taken out of the map if not simply avoiding fullscreen ck3 style menus at all costs. The data types and vibrancy displayed in EU4 with banners is also something that feels sorely missing from newer releases, the drop down menus are a massive downgrade from the situation banners. Which isn't to say menus shouldn't have beautiful and flavorful backgrounds, but that I think going along a more EU4-esque design choice would make for a better experience.
I would also say you should avoid "royal court" style mechanics which take you out of the world, I understand the idea in theory is court immersion in ck3 but I don't feel it really worked for that and especially don't feel it would fit a more europa style game, especially given all the pause events which interrupt the flow of MP.
While I'm standing on my soap box I'll throw in my 2 cents about mission trees, the game felt much more sandboxy and varied beforehand, while playing without flavored ones now feels kinda like you're just disadvantaged. To keep the world believable I think rather than Missions, the AI should have general historical and realpolitik informed goals along with historical events and such.

all our menus are in side bars. Except the ledger and some unit reorganisation windows (just like eu4)

ironically, we used to use much more full screen in older games like hoi2, hoi3 and v2
 
Caucasus in 1337 in the latest paradox game Project Caesar.
View attachment 1099829
As for the Kabardians, they came to the region called Great Kabardia only in 1350-1400 from the Taman Peninsula.

Previously, Kabardians were called Kasogi.

Kasogi​

1223 - Kasogs are mentioned in a chronicle about the emergence of the Mongols. [12] The Ossetians , long-time neighbors of the Kabardians , a Circassian tribe , still call the Kabardian country Kæsæg and the Kabardian people Kæsgon . Additionally, the Svans and Mingrelians continue to call the Kabardians "Kashgon".
As for the Turkic peoples of Karachay and Balkar, I do not know whether they were independent or under the rule of the Alans.
As for the Abazins, in 1337 they lived on the Black Sea coast and were subjects of the Georgians.
Part of me is honestly hoping the Georgian government makes a Twitter post similar to Armenia's. Pretty sure this would be around the time they got closest to restoring the Kingdom of Georgia to it's height under King/Queen Tamar.
 
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all our menus are in side bars. Except the ledger and some unit reorganisation windows (just like eu4)

ironically, we used to use much more full screen in older games like hoi2, hoi3 and v2
Are you keeping the "master menu" encompassing all the internal management of your country in just one mass of taskbars or will it be broken up?
This thing:
 

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Will it be possible to use your army for more then just fighting? In Imperator you can use your army to build roads to improve infrastructure, will the same mechanic be present in this game? I really liked that feature and perhaps you can improve it further and add the potential to speed up the building of forts, harbors, towns or other building by using your army, while also increasing the cost over time etc. Perhaps using your army for different projects can be locked behind organisation prerequisits and tech?
 
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all our menus are in side bars. Except the ledger and some unit reorganisation windows (just like eu4)

ironically, we used to use much more full screen in older games like hoi2, hoi3 and v2
Ledger confirmed <3 Johan you just keep hitting it out of the park here!
 
all our menus are in side bars. Except the ledger and some unit reorganisation windows (just like eu4)

ironically, we used to use much more full screen in older games like hoi2, hoi3 and v2
Johan i want "remember" can in this age the raids exist, the 100 years war, was essentially a plunder war, can the english use the casus belly "claim throne" for declare war and plunder the rich french. Plus for avoid the king of french seize the english king properties (because was as "french king vassal")...can be nice you can have raids as main income (like ck2/ck3 plundering)
 
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Johan i want "remember" can in this age the raids exist, the 100 years war, was essentially a plunder war, can the english use the casus belly "claim throne" for declare war and plunder the rich french. Plus for avoid the king of french seize the english king properties (because was as "french king vassal")...can be nice you can have raids as main income (like ck2/ck3 plundering)
Casus belly broke me
 
The province names that appear in the banner seem pretty anachronistic and I hope they're fixed before release. One clear examples is Edessa, which, although an Ancient name, had been abandoned in the Medieval period and was only restored by the modern Greek government about a century ago (it was called Vodená before by all language groups living there (or some variation of that)). Another is what appears to be Alexandroupoli, which was also named as such about a century ago in honour of a Modern Greek prince named Alexandros.
 
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