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Tinto Talks #40 - 4th of December 2024

Hello everyone and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the Happy Wednesday when we talk more about our upcoming top secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

This week we will go into details about the government reforms and look into some specific ones that you may use or not.

Representing everything from ancient traditions to progressive amendments, Government Reforms outline the shape of governance in a country. Each one is unique, but they often give powerful trade-offs or open up unique play styles.

At the start of the game, countries are only allowed 2 government reforms, but in every Age there is at least one advance that unlocks another slot for reforms. Some specific reforms also add another slot, so they are essentially “free” for that country. On average in the final Age of the game, a country may have 7 or 8 reforms.

Common Government Reforms that are available to everyone are likely to have an Age requirement, spreading out their availability over the game.

Some reforms are major reforms, and a country may not have more than one major reform at the same time.

There will be a diverse selection of reforms in each age, with about 5 common new ones added each age, and another 2 per government type. The unique ones are far more plentiful, and diverse, with over 150 currently in the game.

In the User Interface, the government reforms exist in the Crown’s part of the Estates Screen, as the Crown does not really have any estate privileges…

french_estates.png
France can have 3 reforms, but are the current ones actually beneficial?



Removing a Government Reform currently costs 20 stability, which is a bit cheap, but that may change. Some reforms can not be removed at will though, and are locked until specific circumstances allow them to be removed.

Adding a new reform does not have a cost, but it takes up to 2 years before the benefits are fully implemented.



Common Reforms
Here are some examples of early government reforms that many nations have access to from the start.

Religious Tolerance
For when your country is populated by people who practice different beliefs and confessions. Therefore, it would be prudent to govern in a tolerant manner with them, ensuring their support for the government.

religious_tolerance.png

It will make your country a bit more communal though..

Diplomatic Traditions
From time immemorial our people have favored the word above the sword, giving us the ability to forge lasting relationships with our allies and friends and a reputation as honest and loyal.

diplomatic_traditions.png

For certain types of countries, this is rather important..


Military Order
This is a major reform that catholic theocracies have access to. It is one of the types of reforms that truly defines a country.

The Military Orders were created in the Middle Ages as a militant body of the Catholic Church. Its members are both warriors and monks who take religious vows and are destined to defend and expand Christianity.

military_order.png

Military Sponsorships are vitally important to a Holy Order!



Unique Government Reforms
So let's take a look at some of the more unique government reforms that we have in the game right now.

Family Sagas
This is a unique reform that anyone with the primary culture of Icelandic can get, which both Iceland and Greenland starts with.

Our ancient sagas passed orally through the generations tell of adventurous expeditions to a distant and wild land over the western sea. Perhaps one day we may follow in the footsteps of our old compatriots.

family_sagas.png

If only they had the population to exploit it..

Three Departments
This is available to any country that has Chinese or Korean as their court language.

The Three Departments System originates from the ancient Chinese empires and is the primary administrative structure of the state. All departments focus on several aspects of the process of drafting, establishing and revisiting state policies.

three_departments.png

If you want laws changed, this is the reform to have..

Magna Carta
This is a unique reform that England starts with, and is also possible for any country with the English primary culture, or if their overlord has this reform.

The 'Great Charter' is a constitutional law that distributes power away from the monarch and towards the barons. First signed in 1215, it is also one of the earliest documents to enshrine the idea of civil liberties, such as the right to a fair trial, and protection against illegal imprisonment.

magna_carta.png

It gives some power to the nobility, and shapes the country towards certain ideals.


Stay tuned, as next week we will look into all the different types of Parliaments, and how you interact with them...
 
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Why didnt they?

they were countries/locations established on exploration and colonization. why wouldnt they be able to explore? they had essentially done just that and further than their own locations relatively close to the timeline of the game.

what stopped them wasnt ability. but cost, resources and population. we know greenland has 1.5k pop and iceland 46k. we also know you need to pay for explorers, materials and ships to explore. does that seem viable from a 46k population country in harsh envioment?

Heck we dont even know how viable it even would be tech wise. There could easily be advances, ship designs and colonial advances which basically makes extremely unproductive to use some of the ability.
But at the same time make it possible for Iceland to recolonize greenland if their colonies were to fail.
I am thinking whether there would be a nomad-like tribe migration to transfer all Icelandic to another place, like North America. :p
 
Johan Imma be fair

go for it, it's not a broken mechanic on such low pop countries, it makes sense, it's not exploitable, it make those countries fun to play with. Please still go for it, I like it.

Also it would be cool to have similar things for polinesian countries or arab countries (to simulate the spread of Islam throughout the indian ocean up to Indonesia)
 
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Reforms and Societal Values:
The reforms are "free", that's fine, it's just a government decision.
Does the reaction of the estates and the population in general to these appear somehow? Many reforms tend to fail due to resistance from the people.
For example, a spiritual society reacts quite differently to the introduction of religious tolerance than a society with humanistic values. Or the decision to establish a central government body is easier in a centralized than in a decentralized society.
 
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I think the various estates should have preferences for certain reforms and dislikes for others. Enacting a reform an estate doesn't like should give a large temporary malus to the satisfaction of the estate and a smaller permanent one as long as the reform is active. This would be more impactful than just a stability hit.

We use estate preferences more for the various policies in the laws, as there are dozens up dozens of laws with different policies and thus makes for many interesting choices. When you have far fewer choices as the reforms are, then having estate preferences impacting them limits your choices much further making far more rigid metas/builds.
 
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The Iberians were successful because they combined technologies available in their context to make ships capable of supporting long-term colonial projects. They weren't just 'lucky'. They had the the backdrop of the Reconquista, the wars between themselves and their naval industries to encourage them to pursue ocean-going ventures and become uniquely prepared to explore and colonise the African and American coasts. The caravels and carracks didn't pop up just because the Portuguese 'stumbled' on to them, they were deliberate projects by a country that was readying itself for 'outremer' expansion.

This is to say, if any region in Western Europe was ready to be the first to have long-term, large-scale colonisation projects, it was Iberia, and Portugal in particular. Not Scandinavia.

This 100%.
 
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I agree with this - a load of nations had already sent exploration missions (Carthage, Ming, the aforementioned Polynesians and Norse, hell even Rome). Exploration in and of itself is nothing new; the colonization introduced by the Iberians is.

I think the ability to explore shouldn’t be a yes/no value, moreso being made available to you if you reach, say, 50 naval tradition or have a seafaring culture. Yes/no values don’t really represent the conditions that made sea exploration possible and restrict other perfectly seafaring nations from actually faring the sea.

Pretty much every settled country can explore from day 1, as they got access to the map-making advance.
 
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Jeez, no idea why this blew up so much but I actually like the family saga's. Greenland and Iceland had a history of exploring and settling fairly recently, they had the knowledge a fertile Vinland to the west, giving them this seems pretty good from a historical and gameplay perspective. That it's going to be hard as balls to get any kind of serious colony of the ground seems pretty plausible from what we've seen of how important population is. But I for one would rellish it if once every 100 games or so the AI actually pulls off colonisation in the new world by them and I find a nordic Vinland colony when the map eventually unlocks.
 
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Don't forget the "The Decreta of León Kingdom of 1188" , scholars have found an influence of the Cortes of León when the same principle became part of the British “Magna Carta” of 1225.

 
Is this also the reason you need to comment within an hour of a new post to get a response?

Good luck, and stay healthy.

Yeah. I have booked the time between 15.10 to 17.00 to spend most of it replying here.
 
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Ok @Johan , so what if I want to switch government? Like if the Teutons want to become a republic do they just need to remove the military order reform and put a republican one?

Not that easily. You wont have access to republican ones if you are a Theocracy.
 
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One thing that annoys me is the constant downplaying of the Portuguese Enterprise. It was decades of exploration, studies and discoveries, advancing naval technologies and shipbuilding.

Geography population and money will limit the early northern colonization game. They are big on their oral traditions I don't see an issue with them having a bonus like that at the start of the game. Just don't kneecap Portugal later on.

Portugal gets some things rather early on. Besides having the absolutely best geographical position, where they can be maybe an age ahead of France and England in reaching the americas and exploring africa, they get a unique advance in the renaissance that improved colonial range and their exploration speed.

Portugal is the country we use internally for "best country to test and try out exploration and colonisation".

Its also consistely on the top 5 of countries I like playing when I personally playtest. Currently right now I enjoy Norway, Portugal, Brittany, Oman and Serbia. Maybe its time to start a new Portugal game to test out this weeks changes.
 
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Portugal gets some things rather early on. Besides having the absolutely best geographical position, where they can be maybe an age ahead of France and England in reaching the americas and exploring africa, they get a unique advance in the renaissance that improved colonial range and their exploration speed.

Portugal is the country we use internally for "best country to test and try out exploration and colonisation".

Its also consistely on the top 5 of countries I like playing when I personally playtest. Currently right now I enjoy Norway, Portugal, Brittany, Oman and Serbia. Maybe its time to start a new Portugal game to test out this weeks changes.

That's nice to hear, though personally I'd prefer if the content for it wasn't all 'packed in the front' of the game like it was in EU4. There's more to the tag than just the Age of Discovery, and one of the things that frustrated me about its events and mission trees, for example, was how they were, in spite of numerous, 90% all about replicating those first 100 years of exploration.

The Absolutist era, John V and especially the Pombaline era, for example, have tons of stuff to make good game content out of that don't have to do with just creating the route to India and Japan :) Portugal's relationship with other people of Iberia, such as the Leonese and Galicians, was also de-contextualised out of its land-conquest missions. Hopefully in this new title there's room to touch on all of it a bit better.
 
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In EU4 you can't directly change an estate privilege, you need to first remove it and then add the other privilege you want to have. Is this the same for gov reforms and privileges in Caesar: The Project, or now you can directly change the privilege in one click, like how gov reforms work in EU4?

privileges have no slots.
 
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So.. Iceland may want to become a holy order of saving Skräling souls from satan, then make the rich states pay for it. With some luck those Skrälings can be assimilated after their conversion by giant axes.
Proceed to conqer the whole north, south and central vinlands. All 50 billion hides (20m sq km).

Skrälingsaving kniggets having become into biggliest country by 1500?