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Tinto Talks #40 - 4th of December 2024

Hello everyone and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the Happy Wednesday when we talk more about our upcoming top secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

This week we will go into details about the government reforms and look into some specific ones that you may use or not.

Representing everything from ancient traditions to progressive amendments, Government Reforms outline the shape of governance in a country. Each one is unique, but they often give powerful trade-offs or open up unique play styles.

At the start of the game, countries are only allowed 2 government reforms, but in every Age there is at least one advance that unlocks another slot for reforms. Some specific reforms also add another slot, so they are essentially “free” for that country. On average in the final Age of the game, a country may have 7 or 8 reforms.

Common Government Reforms that are available to everyone are likely to have an Age requirement, spreading out their availability over the game.

Some reforms are major reforms, and a country may not have more than one major reform at the same time.

There will be a diverse selection of reforms in each age, with about 5 common new ones added each age, and another 2 per government type. The unique ones are far more plentiful, and diverse, with over 150 currently in the game.

In the User Interface, the government reforms exist in the Crown’s part of the Estates Screen, as the Crown does not really have any estate privileges…

french_estates.png
France can have 3 reforms, but are the current ones actually beneficial?



Removing a Government Reform currently costs 20 stability, which is a bit cheap, but that may change. Some reforms can not be removed at will though, and are locked until specific circumstances allow them to be removed.

Adding a new reform does not have a cost, but it takes up to 2 years before the benefits are fully implemented.



Common Reforms
Here are some examples of early government reforms that many nations have access to from the start.

Religious Tolerance
For when your country is populated by people who practice different beliefs and confessions. Therefore, it would be prudent to govern in a tolerant manner with them, ensuring their support for the government.

religious_tolerance.png

It will make your country a bit more communal though..

Diplomatic Traditions
From time immemorial our people have favored the word above the sword, giving us the ability to forge lasting relationships with our allies and friends and a reputation as honest and loyal.

diplomatic_traditions.png

For certain types of countries, this is rather important..


Military Order
This is a major reform that catholic theocracies have access to. It is one of the types of reforms that truly defines a country.

The Military Orders were created in the Middle Ages as a militant body of the Catholic Church. Its members are both warriors and monks who take religious vows and are destined to defend and expand Christianity.

military_order.png

Military Sponsorships are vitally important to a Holy Order!



Unique Government Reforms
So let's take a look at some of the more unique government reforms that we have in the game right now.

Family Sagas
This is a unique reform that anyone with the primary culture of Icelandic can get, which both Iceland and Greenland starts with.

Our ancient sagas passed orally through the generations tell of adventurous expeditions to a distant and wild land over the western sea. Perhaps one day we may follow in the footsteps of our old compatriots.

family_sagas.png

If only they had the population to exploit it..

Three Departments
This is available to any country that has Chinese or Korean as their court language.

The Three Departments System originates from the ancient Chinese empires and is the primary administrative structure of the state. All departments focus on several aspects of the process of drafting, establishing and revisiting state policies.

three_departments.png

If you want laws changed, this is the reform to have..

Magna Carta
This is a unique reform that England starts with, and is also possible for any country with the English primary culture, or if their overlord has this reform.

The 'Great Charter' is a constitutional law that distributes power away from the monarch and towards the barons. First signed in 1215, it is also one of the earliest documents to enshrine the idea of civil liberties, such as the right to a fair trial, and protection against illegal imprisonment.

magna_carta.png

It gives some power to the nobility, and shapes the country towards certain ideals.


Stay tuned, as next week we will look into all the different types of Parliaments, and how you interact with them...
 
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It's alright I suppose. Still feels quite similar to EU4's modifier shopping every 50 years, which by its own is a pretty pointless feature.

Yeah, I think blue reforms (check the card outline) shouldn't really exist, they should be all golden instead. EU4 got extremely silly very quick with their "reforms".
 
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Estates window is much more readable now (in comparison to an earlier version from some other TT).

One note - aren't these little people icons next to the numbers supposed to be different for each estate?
 
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So Government Reforms are sort of like Crown Privileges and they aren't really in their own tab then at all, unlike in EU4, as I understand it?

You are correct
 
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Gotta be honest, several of these are not what I had in mind from the term "Government Reforms," particularly Diplomatic Traditions and Family Sagas. I'm also confused at why this system is needed, when the game already has the laws/policies mechanics. Many of these would fit nicely as a law or policy, though perhaps the issue is not having a broader category for them to fit into. Though I really thought that religious tolerance would be a law/policy. And while some of them grant access to unique mechanics, many also have modifiers attached to them, so it's another system for modifier stacking in a game that isn't supposed to allow modifier stacking.
 
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Agreed. This is 100% a meme policy. Going to end up with common Vinland exploits on day one.

I'm going to add this to my original post, too; I would be much more content if, instead of giving you exploration/settling bonuses, it gave you defence against native resistance on cold areas, for example. In other words, some kind of hygienic advantage on specific areas the Nords would be better at settling.

But not direct benefits befitting of early colonial empires. That makes no sense to me.
 
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Gotta say, I love everything so far, but I'm having a hard time seeing the "programming language" on the Front End UI.

I think it would be better if, instead of "CAN RECRUIT EXPLORER YES" we would have the plain and simple text of... "CAN RECRUIT EXPLORER". As far as I understand, there is no "NO" state of this statement, so in this particular case it can only assume the position of YES. And if so, it is much cleaner to ditch the YES part and show it as a statement:
- Monthly Progress to Nava: +0.01
- Cultural Tradition: +2.00
- Can recruit Explorers
- Can Invite Settlers
- Allows Exploration Missions

I hope that the engine has the flexibility to use this method where it is possible and leave the "programming languge" to those UI elements, where it can make a difference.
 
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It's alright I suppose. Still feels quite similar to EU4's modifier shopping every 50 years, which by its own is a pretty pointless feature.

Could be.
 
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Will some government reforms like this affect the name of the country? For example if I become a military order as a theocracy, would I get a cool new name (for example Livonia -> Livonian Order) etc?

yes
 
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The Magna Carta reform should also be available to Flanders, as I previously explained here in TM1 Feedback.
Some other Germanic duchies apparently also had similar charters, but I couldn't find any concrete examples. Anyone else who has more info on these?

Edit: although the Flanders variant should also give power to the Burghers instead of only nobility.

Sounds like some thing to look at when we add more content to Flanders.
 
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Unsure how to feel about reforms. I wish they were gotten into a bit more, IDK they seem simultaneously important and also not, feels like they should be more involved.



I feel that would be best served with simply a generic "Noble Charters" reform that is a bit weaker but covers similar things. Rather than just giving everyone the Magna Carta.
Maybe, although the Germanic thing might be a dead end as most of these charters were often city-specific IIRC.

The Flanders Charter of 1128 was state-wide though, and also included the Burghers which had far-reaching consequences in the political development of the County.
It was even more expansive in scope than the MC, but it is less well-known due to it being... well Flanders :p
 
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A bit underwhelming, I was expecting to see quite a few more.

BUT super HYPED to finally learn about parliaments! One of the features I have been most hyped about. Please make it cool and fun and interactive and not just a cheese button you press to get modifiers like in EU4
 
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Can Estates force a Reform on me if they are unhappy and powerfull enough?
Like if i am a weak absolutist king, and the nobles want more freedoms.

Or if cleregy hates the "religious tolerance" reform, and would much rather have the opposite.

Some yes, but mostly its about privileges
 
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Well it's 1337 now and Greenland is still lingering, why shouldn't there be at least the option of having Iceland "recover" Greenland and re-discover Newfoundland again?

I agree.. its an insanely challenging and hard start, but yeah... if you are lucky you can pull off some of that.
 
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Is there a minimum? Or do completely generic countries exist? Do you have a baseline number you want for relevant countries?

We have like 1500+ countries... many of those will be "genericish"
 
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