• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Talks #40 - 4th of December 2024

Hello everyone and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the Happy Wednesday when we talk more about our upcoming top secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

This week we will go into details about the government reforms and look into some specific ones that you may use or not.

Representing everything from ancient traditions to progressive amendments, Government Reforms outline the shape of governance in a country. Each one is unique, but they often give powerful trade-offs or open up unique play styles.

At the start of the game, countries are only allowed 2 government reforms, but in every Age there is at least one advance that unlocks another slot for reforms. Some specific reforms also add another slot, so they are essentially “free” for that country. On average in the final Age of the game, a country may have 7 or 8 reforms.

Common Government Reforms that are available to everyone are likely to have an Age requirement, spreading out their availability over the game.

Some reforms are major reforms, and a country may not have more than one major reform at the same time.

There will be a diverse selection of reforms in each age, with about 5 common new ones added each age, and another 2 per government type. The unique ones are far more plentiful, and diverse, with over 150 currently in the game.

In the User Interface, the government reforms exist in the Crown’s part of the Estates Screen, as the Crown does not really have any estate privileges…

french_estates.png
France can have 3 reforms, but are the current ones actually beneficial?



Removing a Government Reform currently costs 20 stability, which is a bit cheap, but that may change. Some reforms can not be removed at will though, and are locked until specific circumstances allow them to be removed.

Adding a new reform does not have a cost, but it takes up to 2 years before the benefits are fully implemented.



Common Reforms
Here are some examples of early government reforms that many nations have access to from the start.

Religious Tolerance
For when your country is populated by people who practice different beliefs and confessions. Therefore, it would be prudent to govern in a tolerant manner with them, ensuring their support for the government.

religious_tolerance.png

It will make your country a bit more communal though..

Diplomatic Traditions
From time immemorial our people have favored the word above the sword, giving us the ability to forge lasting relationships with our allies and friends and a reputation as honest and loyal.

diplomatic_traditions.png

For certain types of countries, this is rather important..


Military Order
This is a major reform that catholic theocracies have access to. It is one of the types of reforms that truly defines a country.

The Military Orders were created in the Middle Ages as a militant body of the Catholic Church. Its members are both warriors and monks who take religious vows and are destined to defend and expand Christianity.

military_order.png

Military Sponsorships are vitally important to a Holy Order!



Unique Government Reforms
So let's take a look at some of the more unique government reforms that we have in the game right now.

Family Sagas
This is a unique reform that anyone with the primary culture of Icelandic can get, which both Iceland and Greenland starts with.

Our ancient sagas passed orally through the generations tell of adventurous expeditions to a distant and wild land over the western sea. Perhaps one day we may follow in the footsteps of our old compatriots.

family_sagas.png

If only they had the population to exploit it..

Three Departments
This is available to any country that has Chinese or Korean as their court language.

The Three Departments System originates from the ancient Chinese empires and is the primary administrative structure of the state. All departments focus on several aspects of the process of drafting, establishing and revisiting state policies.

three_departments.png

If you want laws changed, this is the reform to have..

Magna Carta
This is a unique reform that England starts with, and is also possible for any country with the English primary culture, or if their overlord has this reform.

The 'Great Charter' is a constitutional law that distributes power away from the monarch and towards the barons. First signed in 1215, it is also one of the earliest documents to enshrine the idea of civil liberties, such as the right to a fair trial, and protection against illegal imprisonment.

magna_carta.png

It gives some power to the nobility, and shapes the country towards certain ideals.


Stay tuned, as next week we will look into all the different types of Parliaments, and how you interact with them...
 
  • 201Like
  • 80Love
  • 16
  • 13
  • 7
Reactions:
I imagine you have plans for regional ideas to conver most of those right? As in HRE ideas or Indian ideas for the nations that would otherwise have nothing

Thats mostly for advances but yes.
 
  • 24Like
  • 3
Reactions:
The reform just seems to unlock exploration from the start of the game for them doesn't seem to give any particular bonuses to it, I would guess some kind of tech would unlock exploration for the iberian kingdoms in the renaissance. The caravel probably is also probably some kind of unique iberian tech from the age of discovery that boosts exploration and high seas travel.

I disagree primarily with the nature of the benefit. Please see the suggestions I made to replace it with a hygienic mitigation of resistance to settling in 'Artic' lands. That way, it both acknowledges the skills of the country, like Johan said the point was, while also impeding ahistorical explorations and colonisations.
 
  • 8
  • 1Like
Reactions:
They had 20-30 times fewer people than the smallest colonial powers and were decimated by the plagues that, eventually, hit the island. This "it didn't happen historically thus it shouldn't happen in the game" is not a good argument, because there is no indication this modifier lets the AI or any random player just immediately colonize Newfoundland or do the kind of things you can do in EU4.

Do you think Iceland should have 0 advantage in terms of being able to explore uncharted lands? As in they should only be able to do it when everyone else is?
Please don't put something I didn't say in quotations as if I stated that, or even something remotely like that. Never did I say or imply that because something didn't happen historically that it shouldn't happen in the game. What I am saying, is that why should Iceland get significant bonuses for exploration and colonization in a game about the Early Modern period when they did not do much exploration or colonization in the Early Modern period. In my original post, I stated that I understand that Iceland is limited for other reasons (population, economy, etc.), thus they won't likely do large scale colonization in the game. I just don't understand why they get such significant bonuses at all, considering what actually happened in the period.

As for your question, Iceland already has the advantage of being so close to the Americas. Will Brittany be locked out of exploration or colonization because they don't get these same bonuses? No, of course not. If they choose to invest and focus on it they could explore and/or colonize, but Iceland has the benefit of being closer. Why should Iceland, who didn't lead major exploration expeditions in this period, get significant bonuses over other countries who also didn't do major exploration expeditions? That's the real question. It is not a matter over whether or not everything should happen as it did historically, it's a matter of why one country should get certain bonuses over another. I don't think that a "cultural memory" of exploring/colonizing the Americas hundreds of years in the past should grant such significant bonuses. Maybe a minor one that makes them better at colonizing certain climates or something along those terms, on top of the bonus they already have due to their proximity to the Americas.
 
  • 16
  • 4
Reactions:
Hmmm, not sure how I feel about implementing new reforms being free and only costing time. For something that was so central to what governments actually did in this time, I think it could be a more involved process.
 
  • 4
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Three Departments should change to six departments, the 三省 Three Departments only existed a short time in Chinese history. Even Tang dynasty can't hold to run the system before the dynasty fallen. But the 六部 Six Departments still be used by Song, Yuan, Ming, Qing
 
  • 4
  • 2Like
Reactions:
This is the impact of a real Strategic Plan!!
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Three Departments should change to six departments, the 三省 Three Departments only existed a short time in Chinese history. Even Tang dynasty can't hold to run the system before the dynasty fallen. But the 六部 Six Departments still be used by Song, Yuan, Ming, Qing
And why doesn't Vietnam have this system? Vietnam also began to record the names of these three departments in 1128.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
What are the two reforms that France has here? I assume one is Diplomatic Traditions

No.


They start with two unique "entirely beneficial and good" government reforms.
 
  • 47Haha
  • 11Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Please don't put something I didn't say in quotations as if I stated that, or even something remotely like that. Never did I say or imply that because something didn't happen historically that it shouldn't happen in the game. What I am saying, is that why should Iceland get significant bonuses for exploration and colonization in a game about the Early Modern period when they did not do much exploration or colonization in the Early Modern period. In my original post, I stated that I understand that Iceland is limited for other reasons (population, economy, etc.), thus they won't likely do large scale colonization in the game. I just don't understand why they get such significant bonuses at all, considering what actually happened in the period.

As for your question, Iceland already has the advantage of being so close to the Americas. Will Brittany be locked out of exploration or colonization because they don't get these same bonuses? No, of course not. If they choose to invest and focus on it they could explore and/or colonize, but Iceland has the benefit of being closer. Why should Iceland, who didn't lead major exploration expeditions in this period, get significant bonuses over other countries who also didn't do major exploration expeditions? That's the real question. It is not a matter over whether or not everything should happen as it did historically, it's a matter of why one country should get certain bonuses over another. I don't think that a "cultural memory" of exploring/colonizing the Americas hundreds of years in the past should grant such significant bonuses. Maybe a minor one that makes them better at colonizing certain climates or something along those terms, on top of the bonus they already have due to their proximity to the Americas.
I think the idea is that as Greenland is declining there is a small oppurtinity between the final death of the Greenland colony and the arrival of smallpox in Iceland to restart exploration, if you only let Icelanders explore in 1400 then that might not work.

I don't really agree that this is significant bonus in the context of what Iceland is, I don't understand why people want to limit a modifier that is limited by the circumstances it's put in.
 
  • 10
  • 3Like
Reactions:
150 reforms (at the moment), are you planning to add more reforms before the release?
 
I think the idea is that as Greenland is declining there is a small oppurtinity between the final death of the Greenland colony and the arrival of smallpox in Iceland to restart exploration, if you only let Icelanders explore in 1400 then that might not work.

I don't really agree that this is significant bonus in the context of what Iceland is, I don't understand why people want to limit a modifier that is limited by the circumstances it's put in.
Because there doesn't seem to be any particularly good reason for this particular modifier to be there. Should we start giving everyone modifiers for all sorts of things, simply because 'it won't make a difference anyway'? That isn't logical at all :confused: . Either things have an effect, or they don't.

If anything, altering the nature of the modifier would make it more pertinent, at least.
 
  • 12
  • 2Like
Reactions:
So, what I’m gathering is that Iceland/Greenland have the ability to colonise, but need to radically grow their population base and economy to have any hope of reaching Newfoundland, much less the Caribbean.

The AI will do it once in a blue moon, the human player will struggle to do it - but also makes a fun and different campaign. I think it sounds class!
 
  • 8Like
  • 5
  • 1
Reactions:
  • 53Haha
  • 12Like
Reactions: