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Tinto Talks #41 - 11th of December 2024

Hello Everyone and Welcome to another Tinto Talk! This is the Happy Wednesday where we give you information about our very secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

This week we will talk about Parliaments. We have a simple feature with the same name in EU4, but this is rather different, as you will see. We have also gone heavily into making this flavorful as well, and many countries have their unique names for their Parliament, where it is a “Corts” in Aragon, and a “Riksdag” in Sweden…

parliament_overview.png

How is this parliament going?


Type of Parliaments
First of all, there are five types of parliaments, although technically you could argue that no parliament is a type as well. They are based on the different types of 'gatherings' that different societies had, which means that different countries will start with a different type of parliament and that you will be able to change it during the game.

Assembly
  • Available to all countries.
  • Nobles + Peasants can have agendas, but they have very weak impact.

Council
  • Requires Codified Laws Advance
  • Nobles + Clergy can have agendas, but have a weak impact.

council.png

Can be useful…


Estate Parliament
  • Requires Feudalism Advance
  • Nobles, Clergy and Burghers can all have agendas

Autocratic Parliament
  • Requires an Age of Absolutism Advance.
  • Nobles, Clergy and Burghers can all have agendas
  • Crown Power is 25% stronger.
  • Can force through any issue they want in parliament for a small cost.

Constitutional Parliament
  • Requires an Age of Absolutism Advance.
  • Nobles, Clergy and Burghers can all have agendas, and their impact is much higher.
  • The Nobles Estate has an improved estate satisfaction.


If you wish to let your peasants have a say in your parliament you can grant them a privilege, but don’t say we didn’t warn you.


Calling a Parliament
If you are able to hold any type of parliament, you can call them as long as it's been at least five years since the last parliament was called. If you do not call one for a decade the estates will get less and less satisfied for each passing month.

When you call a parliament you get the choice of where the parliament should be held. You can always hold the parliament in your capital, which will give a small boost to centralization but you also have the option to pick another location. Usually you can pick any town or city, but there are countries that can hold a parliament in a rural location as well. If you pick a place that is not the capital, your country will become slightly more decentralized, but that location gains a nice bonus for the duration of the parliament, which lasts about half a year.

parliament_location.png

A temporary mini-capital that prospers?


You also need to pick an issue that will be the main debate of the parliament as well. You have up to two options per estate to choose from, where the parliament support you gain depends on their current power in the country.

select_DEBATE.png

The needs of the crown do not grant additional support..

Parliament Issues
The issue picked has a modifier that is applied to the country while the debate is ongoing. In many cases this is rather beneficial, but it only lasts for the duration of the parliament. We currently have over 70 different parliament issues, and about a dozen country specific ones.

If you fail to get enough support in parliament there will be a drawback which is usually a hit to stability, but if you get over 50% backing in parliament the country will get some benefits depending on the Issue.

castle_issue.png

This is something that many estates may view as beneficial..

parliament_issue.png

In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. All went to their own towns to be registered.


Parliament Support
So what is Parliament Support then? You will always have a base support from your current crown power, which normally will be rather low (unless you have completely crippled your estates), and then you also have the potential support you get from picking an issue. There are also some government reforms and/or advances that increase the base support.

So how do you increase the support during a parliament then?

Parliament Agendas
Well, you can always see what agendas that the estates want to push during a parliament, and if you grant them what they want, your parliament support will increase. The amount that the Parliament Support increases is based on the estate power that they have, multiplied by their current satisfaction. This makes it beneficial to keep estates happier than the minimum levels, if you wish to rely upon them in parliament.

These agendas include law changes, changes in societal values, privileges granted and more. If you accept the agenda of an estate, then the next agenda they propose in this session will give far less parliament support.

autonomy.png

It’s for the greater good I assume?



Parliament Requests
You can also use the parliament support immediately during a session, and get a request fulfilled, but that will reduce your support by 50%.

Request Additional Taxes
This allows you to collect more taxes from the estates during the next 3 years

Ask for Larger Levies
This will make you able to raise 25% larger levies at any point during the next 3 years.

Ask for Law Changes
This will allow you to change laws at a much reduced cost of stability during the next 3 years.

Prepare for War
This will get you an insulted casus belli on a country of your choice within diplomatic range.

Of course, using any of these requires you to probably have to pick an issue backed by a powerful estate, and probably accept an agenda or two.


I would not recommend hovering closely to 50% if you really want an issue to succeed as there may be events that could reduce it happening.

Parliament Seats
We have two more things influencing parliaments that might be of interest as well. There are two special buildings that can be created that are counted as “Parliament Seats”, which gives extra significance to that location. One is an Urban Parliament Seat that the Burghers can ask for during a Parliament, which grants a significant permanent power to the Burghers in a town or city. The other one is the Rotten Borough, which the Nobles Estate will build in rural locations increasing their power if they are not currently happy.


Before we end though, we would like to hear of any flavor names you would like to see for parliaments, we have about 35 at the moment...

Stay tuned, as next week we will talk about disasters!
 
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I have some questions:

Will the parliament have a fixed number of seats based on factors like the number of provinces, locations, and population, or will it be a nonnumerical representation of the country’s state? For instance, if Aragon has 110 seats in its "Corts" (parliament), would the number of seats adjust as it grows and conquers more land, or decrease if the population or territory shrinks? Additionally, will there be an election system or a way to visualize how different classes hold varying levels of influence in the country through the composition of parliamentary seats? Also, is a cap limit for the number of seats in any country's parliament?

Name Ideas of Parliaments for countries

Veitingshus for Iceland or other nordic countries
Consiglio delle Terre for Italian states
House of the Jade Sea or the Heaven's Courts for China
It is weird to hear Jade Sea not from GoT.

Korean Uijeongbu is equivalent to Zhengshi Tang or Zhongshu Menxia, but later in China the power had been transferred to Imperial Cabinet (neige) in Ming Dynasty and Registration of the Grand Council (junjichu) in Qing Dynasty. In the Late Qing Reform early in 1900s, Manchus actually re-established the Zhengshi Tang.

In addition to Zhengshi Tang, Hanlin Academy is another option as all members of Imperial Cabinet must be promoted from Hanlin Academy.

Imperial Cabinet seems to be a version of translation from Qing Dynasty although Western scholars will call Ming's neige the Grand Secretariat

Reference: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/ful...m6nuAOsK41zDvCcZmxN_m_ggGa0#inline_frontnotes
 
1. Liberum Veto exists in-game, as an estate privilege.
2. The Szlachta is not so powerful and entrenched in 1337, but they will potentially be very dangerous.
3. We'll talk more in detail in the Tinto Flavor devoted to Poland.
@2. Starting from 1337, Poland is in a position where Ruling Dynasty is also the Founding Dynasty. King Casmir has strong legitimacy, as his father spent last 50 years of his life fighting: either to claim the throne, or to reclaim lands lost by himself or by his precedessors. I doubt there would be much opposition from nobles.
Only reason, why Szlachta has grown so strong was due to Piast line dying off on Casmir. Next ruler, Luis of Hungary, newphew of Casmir, didn’t have any sons, so he bribed nobles from Hungary and Poland to accept his daugthers as rulers. That's the start of growth of Polish Nobles. Szlachta just made sure each of newly crowned kings would confirm privileges given by their precedessors as well as requested new priviliges for accepting Kings requests (like rasing new taxes for military campains)
 
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Names for parliaments West of the Lower Niger in the Yoruba and Edo regions could be: Ògbóni (or Òsùgbó in Ijebu) for assemblies or estate/constitutional parliaments and Mèsì (more controversial it's specifically an Oyo thing but Ife made the name for theirs English so) for autocratic parliaments and councils

Secret societies in general would be a cool base for an expansion in this region but that's a future topic
 
Staten-Generaal would only work for a low countries(Dutch) parliament where several tags would be united but still exist as separate entities (in PU's, republics, etc). For a single entity the 'correct' term would be Staat, but since that is mostly a term since the 17th century I would prefer the term Landdag for the low country entities. Those are the 'informal' parliaments that were formed in the 12th to 14th century that resulted in more formal and documented parliaments in the 14th to 15th century. In case of Gelre for example this document from 1418 still exists.
This is correct. The term “Staten” only appears later. Additonal flavour for Gelre could be that you get the title “Staten van de Kwartieren” (Estates of the four quarters) once you have organised a parliament in Nijmegen, Arnhem, Zutphen and Roermond.
 
So, in a vacuum this seems good, and an upgrade over totally-unrelated-game EUIV, but its structure and the list of already given names reinforces a concern I've had ever since the Estates dev diary: despite the efforts to represent the world accurately in terms of population and such, the systems and research done thus far seem to be extremely Europe-centric, and more to the point, Europe-specific.

And I get it: that's what's most familiar to most/all of the devs, more research presumably is and will be done, and it's most familiar to a lot of the playerbase (although a glance at the workshop for virtually every Paradox game will quickly show Chinese players are obviously a large and growing part of the playerbase).

But it does concern me that "trying to make this even vaguely fit the situation outside of Europe" might be being regarded as a "get to it later" thing, which will inevitably end up with the situation in virtually every other Paradox game: most of the rest of the world is represented by square European pegs being awkwardly shoved into a variety of differently-shaped holes, and China will just break everything because the systems weren't designed with it in mind (despite it being very arguably the most important and powerful polity in the world through most of the game timeframe, and thus many systems should really be built with it not just in mind but as an important representation of how they work).

And that's disappointing, because the promise of inclusion of most of the DLC work from totally-unrelated-game EUIV (much of which was in fact trying to give better representation and systems for the rest of the world) made me hope that we weren't going to have to wait for further DLCs to try and make the base game represent anywhere outside of Europe with something like the detail and fidelity that Europe gets.
 
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Code:
Cortes
Corts
Veche
Althing
Tynwald
Riksdag
Sejm
Uijeongbu
Senate
Congress
Meclis
Estates General
Rogati
Reichstag
Duma
Staten-Generaal
Tagsatzung
Hluttaw
Parlamento
Jatiya Sangsad
Tshogdu
Sansad
Majlis
Oireachtas
Council
Landtag
Folketing
Storting
Althing
Seimas
Mejlis
Sabor
Országgyülés
Kurultai
Upstalboom
It seems that Uijeongbu of the Joseon Dynasty bears a closer resemblance to a cabinet than to a parliament…
 
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Honestly I love this system, I don't see any large flaws in it. As for unique parliament names, is the Irish parliament already called the Dáil in game, if not can it be changed to that?
 
Code:
Cortes
Corts
Veche
Althing
Tynwald
Riksdag
Sejm
Uijeongbu
Senate
Congress
Meclis
Estates General
Rogati
Reichstag
Duma
Staten-Generaal
Tagsatzung
Hluttaw
Parlamento
Jatiya Sangsad
Tshogdu
Sansad
Majlis
Oireachtas
Council
Landtag
Folketing
Storting
Althing
Seimas
Mejlis
Sabor
Országgyülés
Kurultai
Upstalboom
The Danish version of Estates General is Stænderforsamling (Stænder being estates). For the period that would more appropriate than a Ting in Denmark
 
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The game ends in 1837, right?
Surely there should be some kind of a lower and upper chamber system for the parliament? It's not a very modern invention by any means.
It is not like the parliamentary system here says very much about how the decision making process is actually done, so a substantial part of bicameralism could probably be handled with estate privileges that affect how much parliamentary power a given estate ha?
 
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but you also have the option to pick another location

What happens if you're in the middle of a war, the Parliament is held in one location, and the enemy captures that location?

Is there any in-game option, at the risk of imminent invasion of your country, to cancel the Parliament meeting as some sort of Martial law? To avoid the wealthy and important pops/characters being captured/killed by the enemy troops, if that's an option.
 
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Hello Everyone and Welcome to another Tinto Talk! This is the Happy Wednesday where we give you information about our very secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

This week we will talk about Parliaments. We have a simple feature with the same name in EU4, but this is rather different, as you will see. We have also gone heavily into making this flavorful as well, and many countries have their unique names for their Parliament, where it is a “Corts” in Aragon, and a “Riksdag” in Sweden…

View attachment 1229100
How is this parliament going?


Type of Parliaments
First of all, there are five types of parliaments, although technically you could argue that no parliament is a type as well. They are based on the different types of 'gatherings' that different societies had, which means that different countries will start with a different type of parliament and that you will be able to change it during the game.

Assembly
  • Available to all countries.
  • Nobles + Peasants can have agendas, but they have very weak impact.

Council
  • Requires Codified Laws Advance
  • Nobles + Clergy can have agendas, but have a weak impact.

View attachment 1229099
Can be useful…


Estate Parliament
  • Requires Feudalism Advance
  • Nobles, Clergy and Burghers can all have agendas

Autocratic Parliament
  • Requires an Age of Absolutism Advance.
  • Nobles, Clergy and Burghers can all have agendas
  • Crown Power is 25% stronger.
  • Can force through any issue they want in parliament for a small cost.

Constitutional Parliament
  • Requires an Age of Absolutism Advance.
  • Nobles, Clergy and Burghers can all have agendas, and their impact is much higher.
  • The Nobles Estate has an improved estate satisfaction.


If you wish to let your peasants have a say in your parliament you can grant them a privilege, but don’t say we didn’t warn you.


Calling a Parliament
If you are able to hold any type of parliament, you can call them as long as it's been at least five years since the last parliament was called. If you do not call one for a decade the estates will get less and less satisfied for each passing month.

When you call a parliament you get the choice of where the parliament should be held. You can always hold the parliament in your capital, which will give a small boost to centralization but you also have the option to pick another location. Usually you can pick any town or city, but there are countries that can hold a parliament in a rural location as well. If you pick a place that is not the capital, your country will become slightly more decentralized, but that location gains a nice bonus for the duration of the parliament, which lasts about half a year.

View attachment 1229098
A temporary mini-capital that prospers?


You also need to pick an issue that will be the main debate of the parliament as well. You have up to two options per estate to choose from, where the parliament support you gain depends on their current power in the country.

View attachment 1229097
The needs of the crown do not grant additional support..

Parliament Issues
The issue picked has a modifier that is applied to the country while the debate is ongoing. In many cases this is rather beneficial, but it only lasts for the duration of the parliament. We currently have over 70 different parliament issues, and about a dozen country specific ones.

If you fail to get enough support in parliament there will be a drawback which is usually a hit to stability, but if you get over 50% backing in parliament the country will get some benefits depending on the Issue.

View attachment 1229095
This is something that many estates may view as beneficial..

View attachment 1229096
In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. All went to their own towns to be registered.


Parliament Support
So what is Parliament Support then? You will always have a base support from your current crown power, which normally will be rather low (unless you have completely crippled your estates), and then you also have the potential support you get from picking an issue. There are also some government reforms and/or advances that increase the base support.

So how do you increase the support during a parliament then?

Parliament Agendas
Well, you can always see what agendas that the estates want to push during a parliament, and if you grant them what they want, your parliament support will increase. The amount that the Parliament Support increases is based on the estate power that they have, multiplied by their current satisfaction. This makes it beneficial to keep estates happier than the minimum levels, if you wish to rely upon them in parliament.

These agendas include law changes, changes in societal values, privileges granted and more. If you accept the agenda of an estate, then the next agenda they propose in this session will give far less parliament support.

View attachment 1229094
It’s for the greater good I assume?



Parliament Requests
You can also use the parliament support immediately during a session, and get a request fulfilled, but that will reduce your support by 50%.

Request Additional Taxes
This allows you to collect more taxes from the estates during the next 3 years

Ask for Larger Levies
This will make you able to raise 25% larger levies at any point during the next 3 years.

Ask for Law Changes
This will allow you to change laws at a much reduced cost of stability during the next 3 years.

Prepare for War
This will get you an insulted casus belli on a country of your choice within diplomatic range.

Of course, using any of these requires you to probably have to pick an issue backed by a powerful estate, and probably accept an agenda or two.


I would not recommend hovering closely to 50% if you really want an issue to succeed as there may be events that could reduce it happening.

Parliament Seats
We have two more things influencing parliaments that might be of interest as well. There are two special buildings that can be created that are counted as “Parliament Seats”, which gives extra significance to that location. One is an Urban Parliament Seat that the Burghers can ask for during a Parliament, which grants a significant permanent power to the Burghers in a town or city. The other one is the Rotten Borough, which the Nobles Estate will build in rural locations increasing their power if they are not currently happy.


Before we end though, we would like to hear of any flavor names you would like to see for parliaments, we have about 35 at the moment...

Stay tuned, as next week we will talk about disasters!

Code:
Cortes
Corts
Veche
Althing
Tynwald
Riksdag
Sejm
Uijeongbu
Senate
Congress
Meclis
Estates General
Rogati
Reichstag
Duma
Staten-Generaal
Tagsatzung
Hluttaw
Parlamento
Jatiya Sangsad
Tshogdu
Sansad
Majlis
Oireachtas
Council
Landtag
Folketing
Storting
Althing
Seimas
Mejlis
Sabor
Országgyülés
Kurultai
Upstalboom
It would be better to rename the Reichstag (which I assume is for the HRE) from Reichstag to Hoftag, as up until 1495 the meetings between the King/Emperor and his Vassals etc. Maybe include an event where its renamed.
 
I'm not sure if these would count as "parliaments" or "assemblies" per se, but Imperial China during Project Caesar's period had an council of high ranking officials called the Junjichu which were around in during the Ming and Qing dynasty (I believe it is a gov reform for Qing in eu4). Japan also has similar systems such as the Dajou-Kan and the Bakufu which were councils for the Imperial Court and Shogunate respectively. Perhaps Japan when run by either a Shogun or Emperor should switch between the two for added flavor.
 
For Italian Comuni (city-based Republics) you could use Arengo. Alternatively Consiglio is a good generic term. For Venice Maggior Consiglio. For Southern Italian polities, Parlamento indeed.
 
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