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Tinto Talks #41 - 11th of December 2024

Hello Everyone and Welcome to another Tinto Talk! This is the Happy Wednesday where we give you information about our very secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

This week we will talk about Parliaments. We have a simple feature with the same name in EU4, but this is rather different, as you will see. We have also gone heavily into making this flavorful as well, and many countries have their unique names for their Parliament, where it is a “Corts” in Aragon, and a “Riksdag” in Sweden…

parliament_overview.png

How is this parliament going?


Type of Parliaments
First of all, there are five types of parliaments, although technically you could argue that no parliament is a type as well. They are based on the different types of 'gatherings' that different societies had, which means that different countries will start with a different type of parliament and that you will be able to change it during the game.

Assembly
  • Available to all countries.
  • Nobles + Peasants can have agendas, but they have very weak impact.

Council
  • Requires Codified Laws Advance
  • Nobles + Clergy can have agendas, but have a weak impact.

council.png

Can be useful…


Estate Parliament
  • Requires Feudalism Advance
  • Nobles, Clergy and Burghers can all have agendas

Autocratic Parliament
  • Requires an Age of Absolutism Advance.
  • Nobles, Clergy and Burghers can all have agendas
  • Crown Power is 25% stronger.
  • Can force through any issue they want in parliament for a small cost.

Constitutional Parliament
  • Requires an Age of Absolutism Advance.
  • Nobles, Clergy and Burghers can all have agendas, and their impact is much higher.
  • The Nobles Estate has an improved estate satisfaction.


If you wish to let your peasants have a say in your parliament you can grant them a privilege, but don’t say we didn’t warn you.


Calling a Parliament
If you are able to hold any type of parliament, you can call them as long as it's been at least five years since the last parliament was called. If you do not call one for a decade the estates will get less and less satisfied for each passing month.

When you call a parliament you get the choice of where the parliament should be held. You can always hold the parliament in your capital, which will give a small boost to centralization but you also have the option to pick another location. Usually you can pick any town or city, but there are countries that can hold a parliament in a rural location as well. If you pick a place that is not the capital, your country will become slightly more decentralized, but that location gains a nice bonus for the duration of the parliament, which lasts about half a year.

parliament_location.png

A temporary mini-capital that prospers?


You also need to pick an issue that will be the main debate of the parliament as well. You have up to two options per estate to choose from, where the parliament support you gain depends on their current power in the country.

select_DEBATE.png

The needs of the crown do not grant additional support..

Parliament Issues
The issue picked has a modifier that is applied to the country while the debate is ongoing. In many cases this is rather beneficial, but it only lasts for the duration of the parliament. We currently have over 70 different parliament issues, and about a dozen country specific ones.

If you fail to get enough support in parliament there will be a drawback which is usually a hit to stability, but if you get over 50% backing in parliament the country will get some benefits depending on the Issue.

castle_issue.png

This is something that many estates may view as beneficial..

parliament_issue.png

In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. All went to their own towns to be registered.


Parliament Support
So what is Parliament Support then? You will always have a base support from your current crown power, which normally will be rather low (unless you have completely crippled your estates), and then you also have the potential support you get from picking an issue. There are also some government reforms and/or advances that increase the base support.

So how do you increase the support during a parliament then?

Parliament Agendas
Well, you can always see what agendas that the estates want to push during a parliament, and if you grant them what they want, your parliament support will increase. The amount that the Parliament Support increases is based on the estate power that they have, multiplied by their current satisfaction. This makes it beneficial to keep estates happier than the minimum levels, if you wish to rely upon them in parliament.

These agendas include law changes, changes in societal values, privileges granted and more. If you accept the agenda of an estate, then the next agenda they propose in this session will give far less parliament support.

autonomy.png

It’s for the greater good I assume?



Parliament Requests
You can also use the parliament support immediately during a session, and get a request fulfilled, but that will reduce your support by 50%.

Request Additional Taxes
This allows you to collect more taxes from the estates during the next 3 years

Ask for Larger Levies
This will make you able to raise 25% larger levies at any point during the next 3 years.

Ask for Law Changes
This will allow you to change laws at a much reduced cost of stability during the next 3 years.

Prepare for War
This will get you an insulted casus belli on a country of your choice within diplomatic range.

Of course, using any of these requires you to probably have to pick an issue backed by a powerful estate, and probably accept an agenda or two.


I would not recommend hovering closely to 50% if you really want an issue to succeed as there may be events that could reduce it happening.

Parliament Seats
We have two more things influencing parliaments that might be of interest as well. There are two special buildings that can be created that are counted as “Parliament Seats”, which gives extra significance to that location. One is an Urban Parliament Seat that the Burghers can ask for during a Parliament, which grants a significant permanent power to the Burghers in a town or city. The other one is the Rotten Borough, which the Nobles Estate will build in rural locations increasing their power if they are not currently happy.


Before we end though, we would like to hear of any flavor names you would like to see for parliaments, we have about 35 at the moment...

Stay tuned, as next week we will talk about disasters!
 
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Cortes
Corts
Veche
Althing
Tynwald
Riksdag
Sejm
Uijeongbu
Senate
Congress
Meclis
Estates General
Rogati
Reichstag
Duma
Staten-Generaal
Tagsatzung
Hluttaw
Parlamento
Jatiya Sangsad
Tshogdu
Sansad
Majlis
Oireachtas
Council
Landtag
Folketing
Storting
Althing
Seimas
Mejlis
Sabor
Országgyülés
Kurultai
Upstalboom
If it hasn’t been mentioned, the diet of Finland was called the “Lantdag”. (NOT the same as the very similarly spelled “Landtags” in German-speaking countries)
 
If it hasn’t been mentioned, the diet of Finland was called the “Lantdag”. (NOT the same as the very similarly spelled “Landtags” in German-speaking countries)
For those with less knowledge of the region, that's during the period as Russian principality. Under Swedish rule it was the same Riksdag over the whole country.

Lantdag is the Swedish name, the Finnish name Valtiopäivät could also be used. Both could be coded in and let the country's court language decide which is used.
 
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@Johan Perhaps the Romans could have a Senate they could reform at some point?
 
can be done yes? Shall we do it? :p
Idk how much I can suggest but I think with liberum veto it should be a pralament issue that nobles want this privilage. also in polish sejm there should be no burgers (atleast in from late XV century cause after the death of Casimir the great burghers from lesser poland had a lot of influence on polish politics, interregnum between the reign of Louis the great and Jadwiga for example) clergy could still probably be in this parlament because joining clergy was a good career path for noble sons. Idk how much is it possible but I would love if in later game nobility estate would become the magnats and either new estate representing middle szlachta would appear or it would replace the burghers. also I have something to say about polish flavour starting at war etc, but idk, if I should say it here cause that would be going off topic

P.S: I hope no screanshot is attached by accident cause for somereason when I tried copying a word it took an image I previously copied, and even though I deleted it it still was posted and I needed to edit the comment
P.S 2: didn't noticed later comments and I see the whole liberum veto was already mentioned
 
And can you avoid making the szlachta to powerful?
Arguably Szlachta only got so powerful when ruling Piast dynasty was replaced by Anjou from Hungary and Later Jagiellons from Lithuania. Subsequent kings after Casimir III Piast had to secure their and their heirs' rule by confirming old privileges and giving out new ones. There was like 10 major ones between 1370 and 1573 when Henry III Valois was elected as Polish king after death of Sigismund II Augustus. Henry III was forced to confirm all previous privileges and elective nature of Polish crown in what became later known as Henrician Articles. All the kings who followed until 1795 had to sign this document alongside their personal promises for their rule - pacta conventa.
TL;DR - If Poland can maintain Piast dynasty in power, Szlachta shouldn't be able to gain nearly as much power as they did IRL.
 
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Does this mean the Khuraltai building for Mongolia will get renamed? Since it's literally the Mongolian equivalent. The modern mongolian parliament is the Great Khural, and former president Elbegdorj has directly compared it to british parliament.
 
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Wow, this is peak. Rotten boroughs are my favorite kind of boroughs, how did you know?

Will we be able to reduce or (be forced to) increase the exact powers of parliaments? Will that require switching parliament types, or does doing that itself change parliament types?

I’m glad there’s going to be more flavor names, but I’m also hoping for more particular flavor mechanics. With most places having a type of ‘parliament’, estates general, or assembly, no matter how empowered or limited, there’s bound to be types that didn’t operate or weren’t structured similarly enough to these six general types.

Mali’s “Great Assembly” (“Gbara”, but when present in other Mandé speaking realms without “gb”, either Gara or Bara) is probably one of those. Comprised of delegates representing the ‘constituencies’ of an initial 29 clans and filling 32 positions, it had wide ranging powers and represented the major social divisions* through representing (mostly but not all Mandinka) clans. It was a kind of ‘elective’ hereditary system, something like tanistry in Ireland or the Witenagemot in England if they applied to councils/parliaments as much as the kings.

The divisions were as follows:
1. 16 Djon-Tan-Nor-Woro or Ton-Ta-Jon clans (meaning “carriers of quiver”); clans of Sundiata’s generals and “best soldiers” all assigned to varying military roles, including being appointed to oversee or usurp autonomous provincial administrations.
2. 4 Maghan clans (meaning “princely”); ‘purely political’ roles filled by the imperial clan and related clans, including the Keita (whose princes were required to marry the Condé), the Konaté, the Koulibaly (also Coulibaly). I may be a bit off here but it seems the Somono, Mono, and Dan people all originated as the 4th clan here, listed as the dyi-tigi (master of waters; river travel and fishing, so not a fleet).
3. 5 Mori-Kanda-Lolou clans (meaning “guardians of the faith”); murshids of traditional religion including the Bérété, Cissé, Kona, Diané (or “Janneh”), and Sylla (or “Sillah”). The spread of Islam in West Africa, particularly under Mali, syncretized traditional practices with the Maliki school of thought heavily influenced by Sufi tariqah. I think this makes them akin to an empowered laity over clergy? If so, it might be realistic to give Mali a pro-syncretic clergy or add laity as their own estate with this attribute.
4. 7 Nyamakala clans (meaning “wielders of nyama” which itself means “vital force”); representing the castes of (then freeborn and culturally respected) craftsmen. This included the Kanté; (Sosso?) blacksmiths, Kouyaté; imperial jelis/griots and belen-tigui, Diabate; jeli chroniclers and praise singers, Koroma; woodworker artists, Sylla; leatherworkers, Kamara; jewelers, Kamara; again but mediators of disputes and announcements.

*Hunters’ associations (Dozon-ton) make for a notable exclusion from this list. Considering the suggestion of a power struggle between the Dozon-ton and the Gbara in the late 13th century (and the incompatibility of the account of the Malian hunter’s oath with the account of the Kouroukan Fouga on slavery), I wonder if they should be an extra(-parliamentary) estate of their own.

The “double dipping” necessary to fill 32 positions from 29 clans may be best explained by the Kamara clan holding two separate seats and women and slaves receiving token representation (I can’t find where I first read this currently). Or by the Kamara, Sylla, and Kouyaté clans each holding two separate seats, but this seems less likely since the two roles the Kouyaté have are listed as one seat.

I’m not sure that the layout was untouchable, but the composition remained almost entirely intact until the end of the empire’s four century run. The number of clans dropped from 29 to 28, so there’s that.

This isn’t really possible to simulate well with the parliament types that exist now. So what I’m proposing is a “Clan Council” parliament type that represents estates through the delegates of a set number of clans.
 
@SaintDaveUK Here some more specific Italian ones:
Most of the Northern and central Italian communes/city-states(republics) should have the Consiglio Comunale(literally the municipal council), most monarchies should have the Senato(literally the Senate), for Florence(not Tuscany they should have a Senato) the Priorato, Venice and Ragusa the Consiglio dei Pregadi, Pisa and Ancona the Consiglio degli Anziani(literally Council of the Elders), Genoa the Consiglio della Repubblica(literally the council of the republic) and the Corona de Logu(literally Crown of the realm) for Arborea and finally Savoy/Sardinia-Piedmont/Italy/Sicily/Naples/Two Sicilies/and the rest of the tags should have the Parlamento
@SaintDaveUK I did some better research regarding the various parliaments of Italy so I've updated this list
 
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I'm wondering if there will be an option for you to dissolve parliament if the debate is stalling or not going your way. Perhaps it could be an option if you have a lot of crown power and if the estates like the nobility or someone else has a privilege that requires parliaments consent to being dissolved prematurely or prevents the monarch/head of state from dissolving the session. It would be taking inspiration from Charles I and other monarchs in the age of absolutism that did this when they couldn't get their wars funded. It would be really cool if this was possible. Also can the parliament call limit be modded so that its faster/slower than 5 years. I understand why its currently 5 years but it seems that a situation where it could be called every year but the estates only start getting mad if you take longer than 5 years since the previous parliament to call the new one could be cool as well. Overall really exciting stuff!
 
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