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Tinto Talks #42 - 18th of December 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesday where we give you information about our upcoming super secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

This week we will be talking about the disaster system, which has been present in different forms in recent GSG games from Paradox.

Disasters
There are two major differences between a disaster and a situation. The first is that a disaster is almost always negative, and secondly a disaster is always for a specific country. While multiple situations can be active and involving a country at the same time, only a single disaster can happen at the same time.

There are also two categories of disasters. The specific historical narratives, and the generic ones that can happen to anyone under the right circumstances.

Disasters in Project Caesar are not just a modifier applied to the country, and some events triggering until you fulfill the winning conditions, but you also get unique actions you can do to affect the disaster.

Let's start looking at some common more generic disasters.

Court and Country
Resistance to the growing centralization in our country has culminated in a period of general crisis and conflict between Court and Country. Depending on how we handle this time of crisis we might come out of it a stronger country than before.

This disaster can happen to any country with strong Absolutism or Crown Power in the Age of Absolutism or Age of Revolution.

court_and_country.png

The Nobility has taken the biggest offence to this plan

As you can see above here the UI for this disaster shows your current crown power, and the power of your estates, while also showing the rebel closest to starting a civil war. It also lists the current actions you have in the disaster. Here we cannot rein in the Nobility, as they are too strong already.

Two of the icons above have special tooltips that are useful for you as well.

end_condition.png

You have to endure it for at least a decade..

advice.png

In case you don’t know how to increase crown power..


Religious Turmoil
religious_turmoil.png


Despite the country's efforts to mediate between the different religious groups in our nation, conflicts have been erupting on a regular basis. The situation has worsened and without drastic measures, we will soon be engulfed in a religious civil war.

This disaster can occur during the Age of Reformation for any Catholic country or any country following any Protestant religion, if they have a low enough religious unity and a weak clergy estate.

To get out of this disaster there are multiple ways: get religious unity higher; get the power of the clergy much higher as a spiritualist; or go full humanist, while restoring stability.

While this disaster is happening, there will be a lot of conflict from religious minorities in the country.



If we look into some of the country specific ones, we have a few here, and we don’t want to spoil them all..

The Rise of Savonarola
savonarola.png


An upstart preacher has started to spread his apocalyptic message, advocating for repentance and reform. His message is causing quite a stir among the population, and it's for sure a sign of changing times.

This is a disaster that is likely to happen to Florence in the last decades of the 15th century, if they are a Catholic republic.

To get out of this disaster you either have to become a Theocracy or Savonarola will have to die.


War of the Roses
war_of_the_roses.png


Two junior branches of the House of Plantagenet, the House of Lancaster and the House of York, both claim to be the rightful heir to the throne of England. Sporadic fights between their supporters have already broken out in a number of provinces around the country. Their heraldic symbols, a red rose and a white rose, have already become synonymous with the conflict now commonly known as the War of the Roses.

This is a specific disaster for England which can happen during the 15th century if the ruling dynasty is Plantagenet, and some specific historical events have happened. It will allow you to side with either York or Lancaster as it will build up to a civil war for the throne.



So, which historical events do you think would be best represented by a disaster? Post your suggestions here..

Now, you either get a Christmas present next Wednesday, or you get a lump of coal…
 
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Civil wars in general could be a disaster. Horde instability could be a disaster. The collaps of China could be one. The mass death of natives after introduction of new illnesses could be a disaster. The instability of a multiethnic country (f.e. Austria Hungary) could be a disaster.
Civil wars have their own mechanics, @Johan will talk about them in future Tinto Talks. We have disasters for Hordes and China, and situations for the Columbian Exchange, while multi-ethnic are usually covered by generic mechanics (although we could potentially take a look at a specific disaster for Austria-Hungary, a bit like EUIV 1.37 does).
 
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Hmm, so there are no natural disasters? No Lisbon earthquake and the like?
Disasters are strictly just "negative situations"?
1. We have natural catastrophes presents in different ways, half mechanical, half event-driven. We'll also talk about them in the future.
2. Usually yes, although you can end up a disaster in a completely different situation compared to its start, which may not be necessarily negative.
 
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Are the Hussite wars also a Disaster? Perhaps a situation?
Started as a disaster, and ended as a situation (development-wise).
 
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Hmm, so there are no natural disasters? No Lisbon earthquake and the like?
Disasters are strictly just "negative situations"?
I think those kinds of disasters are better portrayed as DHEs anyways. You can't really interact with forces of nature, as there aren't really sides to it for you to lean into, and they play out instantly. With these sorta 'negative situations' you have choices to make, be it the religious turmoil or C&C or whatever else ends up as one. You can't take the side of an earthqake.
 
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Started as a disaster, and ended as a situation (development-wise).
Is that because it affected multiple countries/an entire region? While disasters are only for a specific country
 
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Will disasters have lasting consequences after they are resolved?
Since C&C is currently used to boost the absolutism cap.
Our C&C can make your country lean more either towards Absolutism or Liberalism, which are long-lasting effects (although not permanent, as you may always be able to turn back your country again from on to the other).
 
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about Savonarola :

I'd argue that that disaster should spiral out into becoming a full fledged situation if the players handles it incorrectly. Like, with the pope getting his hand dirty and joining the fray once the friar gets power (and with the papal states having the possibility to choose whether being pro or against Savonarola)

which I mean, it would make sense
 
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What we can see now is limited, so there may be more beneath the surface. But from what is here, this feels a little uninspired. Compared to most dev diaries from TT.

It feels very close to EU4: a few half-arbitrary conditions are met, so a disaster is triggered, which has high mana cost until you get out. A 'Rein in' button feels simplistic and not immersive.

Are you able to come up with a way that feels a bit more organic. A bit less like a binary distinction between in or not in a disaster?

And for the generic vs specific, wouldn't it be much more immersive to have many third type disasters too: history-inspired. Which are conditional on quite a specific set of circumstances, but a large number of countries can trigger them.

For example, let's say a Catholic-led country with some non-catholic christians breaks a royal marriage with a catholic country. This triggers a crisis of faith within the country, where the catholic and non-catholics fight over the future of the country - with three potential outcomes: a catholic country, a protestant country, or a catholic-protestant hybrid. England and Henry VIII went the third route.

Or is this going to be handled by Situations?
 
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This honestly sounds like a copy/paste from EU4.

Which is sad, since disasters in EU4 were/is generally uninspiring, tedious and posed no real threat after getting familiar with the game.
Our disasters are usually a bit more interactive than those of EUIV, as they have usually some more actions to do, besides killing rebels and getting random events.
 
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I think the Palaiologan Civil War should be a disaster likely to strike the Byzantines after the death of Emperor Andronikos, to simulate the unique instability of the empire at that time.
It is.
 
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Can we get info on diseases? Are they disasters
No, they may either be systemic or triggered by situations (such as the Black Death), as they usually affect more than one country.
 
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Maybe the Little Ice Age should be a disaster striking most countries sometime during the middle of the game?
Sounds more like a situation to me, as it is not country-specific but regional.
 
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