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Tinto Talks #42 - 18th of December 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesday where we give you information about our upcoming super secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

This week we will be talking about the disaster system, which has been present in different forms in recent GSG games from Paradox.

Disasters
There are two major differences between a disaster and a situation. The first is that a disaster is almost always negative, and secondly a disaster is always for a specific country. While multiple situations can be active and involving a country at the same time, only a single disaster can happen at the same time.

There are also two categories of disasters. The specific historical narratives, and the generic ones that can happen to anyone under the right circumstances.

Disasters in Project Caesar are not just a modifier applied to the country, and some events triggering until you fulfill the winning conditions, but you also get unique actions you can do to affect the disaster.

Let's start looking at some common more generic disasters.

Court and Country
Resistance to the growing centralization in our country has culminated in a period of general crisis and conflict between Court and Country. Depending on how we handle this time of crisis we might come out of it a stronger country than before.

This disaster can happen to any country with strong Absolutism or Crown Power in the Age of Absolutism or Age of Revolution.

court_and_country.png

The Nobility has taken the biggest offence to this plan

As you can see above here the UI for this disaster shows your current crown power, and the power of your estates, while also showing the rebel closest to starting a civil war. It also lists the current actions you have in the disaster. Here we cannot rein in the Nobility, as they are too strong already.

Two of the icons above have special tooltips that are useful for you as well.

end_condition.png

You have to endure it for at least a decade..

advice.png

In case you don’t know how to increase crown power..


Religious Turmoil
religious_turmoil.png


Despite the country's efforts to mediate between the different religious groups in our nation, conflicts have been erupting on a regular basis. The situation has worsened and without drastic measures, we will soon be engulfed in a religious civil war.

This disaster can occur during the Age of Reformation for any Catholic country or any country following any Protestant religion, if they have a low enough religious unity and a weak clergy estate.

To get out of this disaster there are multiple ways: get religious unity higher; get the power of the clergy much higher as a spiritualist; or go full humanist, while restoring stability.

While this disaster is happening, there will be a lot of conflict from religious minorities in the country.



If we look into some of the country specific ones, we have a few here, and we don’t want to spoil them all..

The Rise of Savonarola
savonarola.png


An upstart preacher has started to spread his apocalyptic message, advocating for repentance and reform. His message is causing quite a stir among the population, and it's for sure a sign of changing times.

This is a disaster that is likely to happen to Florence in the last decades of the 15th century, if they are a Catholic republic.

To get out of this disaster you either have to become a Theocracy or Savonarola will have to die.


War of the Roses
war_of_the_roses.png


Two junior branches of the House of Plantagenet, the House of Lancaster and the House of York, both claim to be the rightful heir to the throne of England. Sporadic fights between their supporters have already broken out in a number of provinces around the country. Their heraldic symbols, a red rose and a white rose, have already become synonymous with the conflict now commonly known as the War of the Roses.

This is a specific disaster for England which can happen during the 15th century if the ruling dynasty is Plantagenet, and some specific historical events have happened. It will allow you to side with either York or Lancaster as it will build up to a civil war for the throne.



So, which historical events do you think would be best represented by a disaster? Post your suggestions here..

Now, you either get a Christmas present next Wednesday, or you get a lump of coal…
 
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In my opinion, most of the disaster focus should be on generic or semi-generic disasters. Having flavor be less centralized is better, in my opinion. (Of course, some nation specific ones are good too, but they should only really happen if conditions are fulfilled)
 
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Are there any plans to implement the Georgian collapse disaster from EU4?
It should be easy enough.

This is a kind of disasters that are a bit fringe to portray (there are other similar ones, as the 'Infantes of Aragon' one, that I helped to design), as they happened in a very specific background, that we usually prefer to portray with the base game mechanics. Not ruling it out, but probably better to discuss it in a future Tinto Flavor.
 
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Most importantly: do you see the exact end date in conditions like "had disaster for 10 years"?

The tree conditions UI seems very nice. A significant improvement to clearly see complicated conditions.
Not sure if it was shown before but the tree on the left for these requirements make them much easier to read, especially with the exaggerated indentation. If there's only two options that are mutually exclusive would it be possible to have the text say "Either X or Y"? Right now it comes off as you can have both options complete despite them having opposing requirements.
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UI is WIP, it will very likely be improved.
 
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1. Will Denmark start in a disaster that helps them into forming the Kalmar Union?

2. Can disasters be triggered by external events? E.g. what if the Papel State has a disaster caused by the creation of Protestantism in another nation?

3. Do disasters drive some first contact events in the new world?
 
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This is a kind of disasters that are a bit fringe to portray (there are other similar ones, as the 'Infantes of Aragon' one, that I helped to design), as they happened in a very specific background, that we usually prefer to portray with the base game mechanics. Not ruling it out, but probably better to discuss it in a future Tinto Flavor.
Thanks for answering!

I've actually been working with some members of the community to publish a location map which had in mind the Georgian collapse mechanic. I'll rework it then.

I'm waiting for the Persia and Caucasus feedback with great angst.
 
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War of succession is a different mechanic?(Unless it's for a specific country then it's flavour disaster)
There's a generic disaster called 'Succession Crisis', and our new system for PUs allows for more flexible CBs and wars regarding them.
 
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Not sure if it was shown before but the tree on the left for these requirements make them much easier to read, especially with the exaggerated indentation. If there's only two options that are mutually exclusive would it be possible to have the text say "Either X or Y"? Right now it comes off as you can have both options complete despite them having opposing requirements.
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Suggestion for the devs: If options in a requirement tree are mutually exclusive/just require 'one of the following', make it a dotted/dashed line leading to its sub-requirements.
 
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Our disasters are usually a bit more interactive than those of EUIV, as they have usually some more actions to do, besides killing rebels and getting random events.
That sounds good, but the TT doesn't seem to convey that point. I see the exact same design with slight change to the bullits and addition of one or two of them.

Raise this, evoke that, perhaps kill a few rebels. Doesn't seem substantially more interactive than EU4 to me.

I would very much welcome more interaction though, and especially challenges beyond tasks that gets tedious when you do them the 10th (or 100th) time.
 
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Meh, we'll see how it feels in practice.
 
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only a single disaster can happen at the same time.
Is there a particular reason you've kept this restriction? Real life doesn't really work like that, where bad stuff just gets in line to screw with you, and certain disasters could/should be happening at the same time. Why would the issue of absolutism vs. liberalism occupy the minds of people so much that they couldn't also find the capacity for sectarian violence for example?
 
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Can noble uprisings (Bar and Targowica Confederation) in Commonwealth be a disaster? It happened in late 18th century but main reason why they happened was an attempt to curtail szlachta's power by the king so in game could trigger as soon as player will be able to try to reform out of Sejm for example (if it's possible in PC)
 
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Can something like the Spanish price revolution be a disaster?
That would be more like a Situation, TBH, because it impacted several countries, on different continents. We don't have it, though, but I'll bookmark this idea, just in case.
 
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