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Tinto Talks #44 - 1st of January 2025

Hello Everyone, and Welcome to a new Tinto Talks. This is the Happy Wednesday, where we give you information about our future upcoming top secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

Today we’ll go over all the trade goods we have in the game. Goods that are raw materials may be extracted from RGO operations in the locations that have them present, but many of them also have buildings that can produce their goods at a slightly less efficiency or capacity for when you need access to it.

Produced goods can only be produced from various buildings.

Some goods have a base-production, which is added to each market, scaled by total development of that market.

Some resources require more trade capacity than others to move a resource between markets. Unless specified, the transport cost is 1.

Default prices is the price a goods would have if supply and demand are matching exactly. The price in each market depends on the supply and demand of the goods in that actual market. The price range changes depending on the age, where in Age of Tradition, prices currently range from 50% to 200% of the default price, while in Age of Revolutions the prices range from 20% to 500% of the default price.

Goods are required by pops, units, building inputs, constructions and more. One important aspect is that you actually need the goods, and if the demand is higher than the supply, then buildings or pops in locations further away from the market center will not get the goods they require!


Raw Materials

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Horses


Default Price is 3 and Transport Cost is 2

Horses were domesticated at an unknown point of the Eurasian Steppe around six thousand years ago. Since then, they have been used by people for a wide variety of tasks, although the most important has been waging war. In that sense, the Middle Ages were the Golden Age of cavalry, as it was closely linked to the development of feudal societies.

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Clay
Default Price is 0.25 and it has a base production of 0.02

Clay is a type of soil that has been used by humanity for the production of pottery and ceramics since prehistoric times. Another main use is in construction, in combination with other materials, or in the creation of bricks. Clay tablets were also one of the first writing methods invented, so its impact in the development of civilization is undeniable.

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Sand
Default Price is 0.5 and it has a base production of 0.01

Sand is one of the most common materials on Earth, and its uses are multiple and varied. It has been the most pervasive abrading material used to shape any kind of stone or metal due to it being coarse and rough, as a component of many building materials and as the main material for the production of glass, among many other uses.

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Stone
Default price is 1, it has a transport cost of 5, and a base production of 0.01

Stone has been one of the main building materials of humanity throughout all its history. Stronger and more durable than other options like clay or wood, it was the go-to material for any construction built to last. Buildings from long ago like the Pyramids have reached our times still standing due to the durability of the stone they were made of.

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Coal
Default Price is 2 and has a transport cost of 2

Coal has a long history as a source of fuel, but it is not until the invention and dissemination of the practical steam engine that demand would take off. As the Industrial Revolution swept across Europe, the use and export or import of coal would become a major business and an integral part of a modern economy.

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Iron
Default Price is 3 and has a transport cost of 2

Iron represents not just iron, but other ferrous metals and the production of alloys such as steel. Iron formed the basis of the metallurgical industry and was used extensively in the production of weapons and other military equipment.

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Copper
Default Price is 3 and has a transport cost of 2

Copper was the main component of bronze and was essential in the early production of cannons.

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Gold

Default Price is 10, but the production impacts inflation.

Gold was the basis of many formal currencies in Europe. The great gold mines of Central and South America would end the great bullion crisis that had gripped Europe in the previous century. However, unwise usage of this great wealth could lead to inflation and ruin.

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Silver
Default Price is 8, but the production impacts inflation.

Silver was one of the first metals used as money and the most successful along with gold. Central Europe became the center of silver production during the Middle Ages, although the Columbian Exchange shifted the focus of world production to the Americas, making it the main production center of a newborn global network since the 16th century.


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Tin
Default Price is 2

Tin was used extensively for the first time in metallurgy as part of the alloy to obtain bronze 5000 years ago. Later it has been widely used to coat other metals and alloys, such as iron, lead or steel, to prevent corrosion, as well as to make pewter, very common in tableware.

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Lead
Default Price is 2

Lead has been obtained since ancient times as a by-product of silver extraction by burning galena. Lead was then used in a wide range of household and manufactured products, especially by the Romans, whose levels of lead production were not reached until the Industrial Revolution. In the Modern Age, it became the main material for making bullets for firearms.

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Silk

Default Price is 4

The finest of all fabrics of the east was the silk produced in India, China, and East Asia. While less iconic than spices, the profits from silk and finely woven cotton cloth would in fact soon dwarf those of the spice trade for the European East India Companies. Due to increasing demand attempts were also made to produce the material locally in mercantilist Europe, with very varied degrees of success.

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Dyes
Default Price is 4 and transport cost is 0.5

For as long as textiles have been woven there has been a market for fine dyes. During the late Middle Ages expensive dyes such as indigo would be worth a fortune due to how distant the source in India was. As the world opened up dyes became easier to get hold of, both through the possibilities to produce them in America and the greater accessibility of the Indian market. Nonetheless, dyes remained rare and in the early 19th century; as the dye plantations in India fell into European hands, a veritable gold rush ensued.

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Incense

Default Price is 2.5 and transport cost is 0.5

To spread smoke and fragrance through the burning of materials has been common in ceremonial practices for centuries. Frankincense, agarwood, sandalwood, myrrh, and other goods suited for this use can be found in few places and their diffusion was an integral part in the formation of trade networks such as the Silk Road or the fittingly named Incense Route.

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Tea

Default Price is 3

Tea was an important luxury drink in China, India, and South-East Asia. It was often used in religious or social rituals. The English popularized tea in Europe. Never considered as noble a drink as coffee, it still produced large profit merely from the fact that the world supply was low.

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Cocoa

Default Price is 4

Cocoa was used as a stimulant by the Aztec, Incan, and Indian rulers since the early medieval times. It was popularized in Europe in the early 16th century when the Spaniards imported it from its American colonies. Cocoa became a luxury enjoyed by the rich.

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Coffee

Default Price is 3

Coffee was discovered in the northeast region of Ethiopia and coffee cultivation first took place in southern Arabia. From the Middle East, coffee spread to Italy in the 17th century and was then introduced to the rest of Europe. Coffee became more widely accepted after it was deemed a Christian beverage by Pope Clement VIII in 1600, despite appeals to ban the 'Muslim drink'.

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Fiber Crops

Default Price is 2

Many different fibrous crops are used all around the world to craft a multitude of products such as sails, ropes, fishing nets, and clothes. Beyond their use to produce coarse textiles, however, many are also used as a core part of the production of finer textiles, used in ceremonies, households, and elsewhere. Some examples are hemp, flax, jute, and sisal.

icon_goods_ivory.png

Ivory
Default Price is 4

Ivory was one of the main exports of Africa apart from slaves. It was highly sought after by Europeans for use in various manufactured goods such as cutlery, gifts, small pieces of art, furniture, etc.

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Fur
Default Price is 2

Furs were one of the basic elements of high quality and warm clothing. Skins from all kinds of animals were supplied initially from Russia but more and more from North America where beavers would be the prize of choice at least till the late middle 18th century.

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Lumber
Default Price is 1 and the base production is 0.005

Lumber has been one of the main building materials for humanity throughout all its history. Although less durable than stone, it is more easily accessible have made it a staple of any building in all places of the world. Even structures designed to be resistant like castles and fortifications have also their versions made out of wood rather than stone.

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Salt

Default Price is 3

Salt is essential for human life. In addition, it was the most common means to preserve food for the long winter months. It was either mineral, brought from mines in Central Europe, or natural, from salt wetlands production via evaporation along sunny coastlines.

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Medicaments
Default Price is 1 and transport cost is 0.5

A wide variety of plants and animal products have been used throughout history to treat all kinds of illnesses, due to their medicinal properties or supposition thereof. Some were more based on actual properties than others, while in some cases it was more a matter of belief in their effectiveness.

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Gems
Default Price is 4 and transport cost is 0.5

Since the earliest times, stones such as rubies, sapphires, diamonds, emeralds, jade, or pearls, have been used in jewelry and ceremonial attire. For centuries the only source of diamonds in the world were the fabled mines at Golconda. While not all precious stones are as rare, they are all highly sought-after commodities.


icon_goods_pearls.png


Pearls
Default Price is 4

Pearls are produced inside different kinds of shelled mollusks. The resulting product is a hard glistening object, ideally round but can take many shapes. They have been appreciated for their beauty and used like gemstones as ornaments all over the world through all human history.

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Amber
Default Price is 4

Amber is a valuable good made from fossilized resin that was primarily used in the manufacture of jewelry and ornaments. Its main source has been depots on the Prussian coast, mentioned for the first time in a 12th-century document.

icon_goods_saltpeter.png

Saltpeter
Default Price is 2

Saltpeter has been known since antiquity, and its uses have been varied such as a fertilizer or as salt for meat processing. However, it was the invention of gunpowder and firearms during the Middle Ages that really raised its importance, as it is one of the main components of it, together with charcoal and sulfur. Mined in great quantities around the world, this metal will go on to acquire an infamous reputation.

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Alum
Default Price is 3

Alum is an essential ingredient in dye-making as well as specializing in the tanning process. Seeing use in a variety of artistic and craft contexts, it is primarily utilized in painting and illuminating processes. Originating mostly from the Chad region, it was traded in the markets of the entire Islamic world, but in the Late Middle Ages, other sources started to be exploited in Europe.

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Spices
Default Price is 6 and the transport cost is 0.25

Spices have been known in Europe since ancient times, mostly for their medicinal value, and for their ability to improve the taste of food. Pepper, ginger, nutmeg, chili, cinnamon, etc. came partly from East Africa but mostly from India, China, and the Spice Islands (current Indonesia), to be traded in Alexandria or the other terminals of the great caravan roads. The European desire for cheaper and more direct supply constituted the main motivation for the very first eastbound sea voyages of discoveries for Portugal.

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Wine
Default Price is 2

Wines have been produced since time immemorial in the southern parts of Europe. It still constituted an essential element of the everyday diet, except maybe in the Muslim world. Wine was not considered a luxury product but probably served as a welcome relief for hundreds to an otherwise dull diet.

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Elephants
Default Price is 10

Elephants have been used in warfare since ancient times in India, South East Asia, the Middle East, and North Africa. The use of elephantry persisted in some of these regions into the Middle Ages, although the advent of gunpowder warfare in the Modern Age outpaced its usefulness in battle.

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Marble
Default Price is 5

Marble has been used in sculptures and constructions since Antiquity, being considered a type of luxurious material due to its appearance and ductility. Some of the best works of art made by Renaissance and Baroque artists, such as Michelangelo or Bernini, are made of marble.

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Mercury
Default Price is 3

Mercury is used for medicine, but will also be of great importance to refine gold and silver ores of lesser qualities in order to make them profitable.

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Cotton
Default Price is 3

Cotton originated from Central Asia but was not widely used in Europe until it was introduced to the American colonies and used as a cheap but good complement or substitute for wool in the clothing industry of the late 18th century

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Sugar
Default Price is 3

Sugar was used not only as a sweetener but also for food preservation. The sugar cane was the only known means of obtaining sugar at this time and had been grown initially in some Mediterranean islands. But the labor-intensive plantation system in America, especially in the Caribbean islands, would soon move the major production sources overseas.

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Tobacco
Default Price is 3

Tobacco was unknown in Europe until brought from Americans in the late 16th century. It quickly became a fashion for the upper classes who could afford it and ensured the fast and profitable economic growth of the British colonies in North America, as well as in Portuguese Brazil.



Food

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Wool
Default Price is 2.5 and produces 5 food per unit produced.

Wool came mostly from sheep that grazed in the more marginal lands not suited to other forms of agriculture. Prior to the use of cotton, it was the major raw material for clothing.

icon_goods_wild_game.png

Wild Game
Default Price is 1 and produces 2.5 food per unit produced.

Wild game is the source of food and nutrition for local populations, especially in sparsely populated rural communities. The hunt of wild animals such as elk, deer, boars and more, are an important cornerstone of a society due to the fact that the aforementioned animals contribute leather, bones, entrails and nutrition to the populace.

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Fish
Default Price is 1 and produces 5 food per unit produced.

Fish was one of the most basic foods for the European population in this age, as meat was more than a luxury for the great majority. Fishermen also provided the basic recruiting pool of the merchant and military navies of most nations.

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Wheat
Default Price is 1 and produces 8 food per unit produced.

Wheat represents the vegetable foodstuff that was the staple diet for humans and animals. Lack of it would always lead to revolts and riots. Other cereals and vegetable foodstuffs would later be augmented by tomatoes, corn, and even potatoes from America offering a wider choice both in food and agricultural production varieties.

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Soybeans
Default Price is 1 and produces 6 food per unit produced.

Soybeans are a type of legume that have been a staple crop in East Asia for almost ten thousand years. Their uses are quite versatile, as not only can they be eaten by themselves, but also milk can be extracted from them, which can also be further processed into tofu. Soybeans can also be fermented into products such as soy sauce and miso.

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Maize
Default Price is 1 and produces 8 food per unit produced.

A cultivated plant that was originally domesticated in Mexico, thousands of years ago, maize was traded between the new and the old world with the arrival of the Europeans in the 15th century. Due to its enduring nature as well as its higher dietary value, maize is destined to become a worldwide commodity.

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Rice
Default Price is 1 and produces 10 food per unit produced.

Rice is a type of grain that has been the staple food for Asia since its domestication more than ten thousand years ago. It was also independently domesticated in Africa more than three thousand years ago, and it has also been an important food source there ever since. It was brought to Europe through trade with Asia as far back as Classical Antiquity, although it did not manage to supersede other types of grain there.

icon_goods_millet.png

Sturdy Grains
Default Price is 1 and produces 5 food per unit produced.

Sturdy Grains are different kinds of cereal grasses that have been domesticated in many parts of the World at different points in time ever since the Neolithic. Their greater resistance to poor quality soils and dry conditions have made them into a more important food source in semi-arid regions compared to other kinds of grain.

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Legumes
Default Price is 1 and produces 5 food per unit produced.

Various civilizations across history have utilized legumes as a substantial source of nutrition for thousands of years. Much like maize, Europeans were introduced to new types of them with their eventual arrival on the shores of the New World. Legumes were not only filling but also cheap to produce and move on ships.

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Potato
Default Price is 1 and produces 8 food per unit produced.

The potato is a starchy tuber domesticated around Lake Titicaca by the native people of the Andes. It helped the rise of the Andean civilizations thanks to its hardiness and high caloric density. After the Columbian exchange, it spread all around the globe and by 1750 it was a staple food in Europe facilitating its 19th-century population boom.

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Livestock
Default Price is 1.5 and produces 8 food per unit produced.

Since the dawn of history, the care for domesticated animals has been one of the main occupations of humanity. Livestock includes everything from cows and horses in rich agricultural areas to the herds of pastoralists in the great plains and deserts of the world.

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Olives
Default Price is 1 and produces 4 food per unit produced.

Olives are harvested from the trees of the same name, which have been cultivated around the Mediterranean Sea for thousands of years. They are highly appreciated in gastronomy, especially the olive oil that is used to cook and dress a wide range of foods in Mediterranean cuisine.

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Dates
Default Price is 1 and produces 4 food per unit produced.

Dates are a type of fruit harvested from date palm trees, which grow in semi-arid, but fertile terrains throughout the Middle East and North Africa. Dates are widely used in the different cuisines of these regions.

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Fruit
Default Price is 1 and produces 4 food per unit produced.

Fruits cover a wide range of products found on trees such as citrus, bitter and sweet oranges, apples and more. For many, these products would be unattainable and a source of nutrition only for the elites. Nearly every region across the world is home to a different kind of fruit and the advent of global trade would go on to introduce different populations to various new fruits.


Produced Goods

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Tar
Default Price is 2

Originally propped up as a cash crop, tar is a valuable ingredient of the ship-building business. Its appearance, that of a thick black liquid, is due to the aggressive distillation process that is required for its production. Tar is widely used as a seal for ship hulls and as a cheap way to waterproof sails.

icon_goods_porcelain.png

Porcelain
Default Price is 3 and the transport cost is 0.5

Porcelain is a type of ceramics characterized by its strength and translucence due to the vitrification of the materials caused by high temperatures. It was developed in China over a period of time starting more than three thousand years ago, with proper porcelain being developed already almost two thousand years ago, and from there, it eventually spread to all over the world as a highly sought-after commodity.

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Naval Supplies
Default Price is 3

Naval Supplies represent everything needed in ship construction, from basic wood to tar, ropes, linen, sails, and various other materials. The Baltic was initially the main supplier until North America became an alternate source of supply in the early 18th century. Colonial expansion into America was in part to secure supplies of such vital goods.

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Firearms
Default Price is 3

The conception and arrival of guns changed the dynamic of battlefields. Wars waged across Asia and Europe will now be subject to cultivating, importing and harnessing the potency of gunpowder. Guns have become a natural evolution of warfare and an essential part of protecting the sovereignty of domains across the earth.

icon_goods_cannons.png

Cannons
Default Price is 4 and transport cost is 1.5

Although siege weapons have existed since antiquity, the discovery of gunpowder has given rise to some weapons with a potentially destructive power that has never been seen before. The ability to throw bigger projectiles at greater speed and distances than ever before will make all but the sturdiest of fortifications quickly fall before them, without mentioning the effect those projectiles can have when fired towards armies themselves.

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Weaponry
Default Price is 3

Various weapons such as swords, pikes, and bows make up the core weaponry of every army. The techniques behind their creation are an art refined throughout the ages. Despite that and regardless of how different the era may be, weaponry will always be a vital instrument to protect one's independence.

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Glass
Default Price is 2 and transport cost is 0.5

Glass has been valued for centuries as a useful material for art, architecture, or simply the crafting of vessels for daily use. Eventually, as glassmaking techniques improved, glass would also become crucial to the scientific field of optics, with glass lenses being used in the fabrication of spectacles, telescopes, and a plethora of other devices with wide-ranging applications from maritime navigation to the natural sciences.

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Steel
Default Price is 5 and transport cost is 2

Steel is widely used for the crafting of weaponry and guns. Various of its qualities are used for different weapons, blunt steel for axes and high-quality steel for swords and knives. As such, steel is also employed as the main metal for the forging of equipment and tools.

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Cloth
Default Price is 3

Cloth represents the various fabrics and clothing made from wool and linen. Later cotton, imported from India and the Americas, became a major material for cloth.

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Fine Cloth
Default Price is 6

Fine clothing was traditionally a marker of status for the elites and wealthy classes. Textiles such as damasks, muslins, or brocades were marketed and replicated throughout the world as a very profitable business in the Middle and Modern Ages.

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Liquor
Default Price is 2.5

Liquor is an alcoholic beverage produced by distillation of very different types of products of plant origin. Distillation is done to increase the alcohol by volume. Popular liquors distilled and consumed around the world were gin, rum, whisky, vodka, tequila, or shōchū.

icon_goods_beer.png

Beer
Default Price is 2

Beer has been a pillar of gastronomy since it was first brewed in the Neolithic. It became a widespread drink in the Middle Ages, and was the object of the oldest food-quality regulation still in use, the Bavarian 'Reinheitsgebot'.

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Slaves
Default Price is 3

Slaves had been a trading commodity since Antiquity, but demand increased sharply in the late 16th century when Slaves offered one of the cheapest sources of labor for European plantations in the Americas.

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Paper
Default Price is 2

Paper is a necessity for all types of advanced accounting, administration, and diffusion of knowledge. The process of its production was originally devised in China and then slowly made its way to all corners of the Old World. Far superior to other types of writing materials such as parchment, the large-scale production of paper requires a specialized set of skills and equipment, making it a rare and sought after commodity.

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Books
Default Price is 5

Books have been one of the main custodians of human knowledge since writing was invented thousands of years ago. They were usually made of leather parchment, paper, and other plant fibers. The invention and spread of movable type printing systems in the Middle Ages made books much more widespread and accessible to the population.

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Jewelry
Default Price is 5 and transport cost is 0.5

Jewelry represents a set of regalia or ornaments that are crafted by skilled smiths using jewels and precious stones. Their value is often associated with high social standing and even royalty.

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Leather
Default Price is 3

One of humanity's earliest discoveries, leather is largely used in the manufacturing of clothes, footwear, and decoration. Its success is largely attributed to its high level of comfort and durability, eventually becoming the choice material for the making of dinner-related furniture, due to leather being easy to maintain while being resistant to absorbing food odor.

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Tools
Default Price is 3

The production of tools is the main factor that allowed human society to flourish. From the more simple and primitive stone tools to the most advanced and precise implements developed through the use of metallurgy, they allow the further creation of equipment and weapons.


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Masonry
Default Price is 1

Construction techniques come in all shapes and sizes. The ability to fabricate smaller pieces with a regular size and shape to use in construction greatly increases not only the efficiency in which buildings can be constructed but also their durability once built.


icon_goods_lacquerware.png

Lacquerware
Default Price is 5

Lacquerware was developed in China and Japan as far back as the Neolithic period, more than ten thousand years ago, and consists in covering products made of wood or metal with a decorative layer of lacquer, a product extracted from resin and wax. This lacquer layer can then be further decorated with paintings, carvings or dustings of gold or silver making it into a luxurious good.

Stay Tuned, as next week we'll delve into the effects of all vegetations, topography and climate.
 
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Was the demand satisfied with just 1 type of spice? If yes then there's your problem. Historically nobility was after diversity of spices (and not after any kind of spice). To me it seems that you guys gave up this idea way too easily. As you can probably see yourself, there is quite widespread expectation in the community that EU4 sequel should represented at least in some capacity the demand for spice diversity. Nobles should create demand for all different spices separately. That way the demand for very rare spices (like Nutmeg) could and should skyrocket even when nobles have access to other more common spices.

I think something like this has the potential to become incredible frustrating and imbalanced. If Nutmeg is only procured in a few provinces going for other spices
which are more common in India is kind of pointless. Getting a monopoly over one trade good by colonizing just a few provinces will be easily exploitable.
You could also just keep the Nutmeg for yourself and now every noble outside your country is constantly unhappy, because they can't get their Nutmeg.
Or a country which controls one specific spice is your rival and embargoes you and you just can't get that resource.
 
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I think something like this has the potential to become incredible frustrating and imbalanced. If Nutmeg is only procured in a few provinces going for other spices
which are more common in India is kind of pointless. Getting a monopoly over one trade good by colonizing just a few provinces will be easily exploitable.
You could also just keep the Nutmeg for yourself and now every noble outside your country is constantly unhappy, because they can't get their Nutmeg.
Or a country which controls one specific spice is your rival and embargoes you and you just can't get that resource.

Part of that would just be gameplay, wars were genuinely started to secure and breakup such monopolies, so why shouldn’t they happen in game?

The way to make it easiyer would be for the demand to be for multiple spices collectively rather than for specific spices. Maybe with an estate building that requires 3 spices as an input to avoid it generating negative happiness, but the production method allows you to input any 3 of the 6 spices?
 
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It's the time period, when spices played the biggest role in human history. It's also about flavour and immersion.
My comment was about the comparison with EU4. The different mechanics there would've allowed each province to have a completely different trade good where the game would've lost only the trade leader / production leader bonuses. This is not comparable to the PC system with supply and demand.

That said, I'd also like to see spices split up, if possible. However, it has to work without braking the simulation and UI. Nobody gained anything, if the game runs badly or there are suddenly 20 spices listed which are all basically the same. We can be lucky, that they are unlikely to fill dropdowns for production methods.
 
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If "whales"/"marine mammals" can't be a trade good, then at least "blubber" maybe could? Ivory and incenses can already represent walrus tusks and ambergris/spermaceti respectively, but whale oil was still really important to the global market.
IMO a generic "Wax and Oils" good makes sense. For whales, as well as bees and plant oils. It really covers a lot of bases. I hope they add it.
 
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Great work and many thanks to Johan and the rest of the team, love this part of the game.

Are these all the goods and materials currently in the game? because I really like the idea of lacquerware, but there is no "lacquer", the thing was extracted from a specific type of tree and widely used in east Asia. Such as water proofs on furnitures and buildings or anything build of wood, including ships, maybe glass as well?
There is another thought which is "oil", currently there is only one kind of oil and that is for food. But oil extracted from plants such as flax seeds are widely used in manufactures, lacquer as I mentioned earlier needs to be blended with oil before use, and almost all kind of weapons and firearms needs oil as water proof and polishing. Oil is also used to make inks and paint, obviously you need them in large quantity to make books and portrait.
 
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Really nice icons!

ps. You may be missing the most important resource of them all: mithril.
 
I think having some sort of houseware good would be, well... good. Lol. Not necessarily furniture, but something that represents implements and other wares you use in the house (like, well, furniture, but not *specifically* furniture).
 
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One thing - could the firearms/weaponry/cannons goods art change with the ages? Having arquebuses in the 18th century doesn't seem very accurate... or perhaps it could depend upon tech level. Purely flavour, no mechanical differences of course.
 
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For a few of the goods, like dates, olives, and amber, it really seems to me that the geographic specificity in the flavor text is a reason to eliminate the good and merge it into generic fruit or gems. If it is possible for people around the world to start demanding these goods, it seems that it’s going to create worse versions of the spice problem when people have to balance demands among a bunch of basically equivalent goods. If it is possible to make these work fine as regional specialties, then it seems like it should be possible to make the spices work.


. . .

There are several cases where splitting and merging of goods seems inelegant. I really haven’t yet seen any reason why pearls and amber should be singled out from other gems, or why olives and dates should be singled out from other fruit. If olives produce oil, and dates compete with sugar, then maybe that’s a reason, but separating pearls, amber, and dates without separating diamonds, obsidian, citrus, and apples feels really weird (and again, seems likely to cause exactly the same problems that you have separating cloves and nutmeg from spices, where populations suddenly get weird unrealistic demand for individual goods, or else substitute the goods freely in a way that adds no gameplay interest).

I like the catchall categories of “sturdy grains” and “legumes”, like “fiber crops”, but it seems worthwhile to me to also create a catchall for tubers other than potatoes, given how many places had an important tuber. It also seems to me to create better flavor to distinguish pigs, poultry, and cattle from other livestock (in addition to wool) than it does to distinguish dates and olives (especially given that pigs and cattle have religious interactions).

I think the reason they don't distinguish between spices is because spices are already geographically confined enough to incentivize long distance trade. Gems and fruit, however, aren't very geographically confined as a resource, and thus don't incentivize long distance trade. Pearls, Amber, Olives and dates are geographically confined to the Pacific, Baltic Mediterranean and Middle East respectively, so they incentivize trade to those places.

The reason why fruit and livestock aren't given the same treatment is because they aren't as easily preserved and don't make as good of a long distance trade good. There's no reason to represent religious taboos here either, because you could simply assume "livestock" just means "whatever livestock is appropriate for this area".


I don’t yet understand how relevant it is to have “fine cloth” separate from “cloth”, but it seems like weird economic conditions might make the price of cloth rise above that of fine cloth, which probably should be impossible. (II don’t see the same quality distinction in any other goods.)

I think Fine cloth is just an incentive for you to trade for silk and/or dye, like in Victoria 3. There will probably be multiple production methods, either improving regular fibers with dye to make fine cloth, or to make fine cloth purely with silk. It might also involve furs, since beaver fur was used to make luxury felt too.
 
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Skimming the Wikipedia page for Amber shows mentions and amber being valued in China and mined in Myanmar.

Pearls are also quite a bit more wide spread than the tropical Pacific. Pearling was common in the Indian Ocean, especially in areas such as the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea. Pearling was the main industry for most of the Gulf states before the oil industry. Pearling also happened in the Americas, such as in Venezuela. You can also find pearls in cold water oysters.

While it is true that most olives today are grown around the Mediterranean, there is nothing stopping you from growing them in other places with the appropriate climate. Likewise with dates.
 
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In the Central American Tinto Maps, @Pavía said that obsidian was included in gems. Will jade also be included in gems and will stone age cultures outside of Mesoamerica also get access to the production method to turn gems into weapons?
 
Why is default production for lumber so low (0.005)? Does it have a physical interpretation, or is it just a balance thing?


I think default production is how much lumber is produced in a province that *doesn't* have lumber as its primary resource. It's basically enough to not cripple one province minors in desert areas. Places with woodlands, and especially places with lumber as their primary resource will have far more lumber produced.
 
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What happens when demand is so high, that the maximum price is reached? Is it always possible to buy more of a good? Or will it 'run out' in the market if more is purchased than produced?

Markets can run out of resources, buildings will not produce until the recieve enough resources.

That being said, idk how this is rationed. If I run out of paper, do my important government buildings get priority when the next batch of paper is produced, or is it random? Or do *all* buildings that use paper stop functioning until there's enough for *all* of them?
 
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They all functioned exactly the same, so it was just different flavor, and had no major impact on gameplay.
All these people getting up in arms about different spices. Like genuinely what difference does it make. It’s always about the trade and transit and discovery and collection of ‘spices’ it doesn’t matter what spices they are. Besides, Johan has said a thousand times, it’s more work, and it takes a bigger toll on your hardware

Surely their time and your processing power is better spent on something that would make a difference
 
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I think default production is how much lumber is produced in a province that *doesn't* have lumber as its primary resource. It's basically enough to not cripple one province minors in desert areas. Places with woodlands, and especially places with lumber as their primary resource will have far more lumber produced.
Provinces don't produce goods.

Default production is added to all markets based on their size, it's to avoid a complete absence of basic building materials which would mean you couldn't expand production.

That being said, idk how this is rationed. If I run out of paper, do my important government buildings get priority when the next batch of paper is produced, or is it random? Or do *all* buildings that use paper stop functioning until there's enough for *all* of them?
Johan explained how it works before.
 
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Really nice work! I get a feeling that the selection of resources and goods is well thought out.

I have a question about production. Is it going to work the same way as previous Europa Universalis, that each province produces only one resource? So that a province that makes lacquerware, for example produces no wheat or rice. I always found that a bit weird. In real world grains are produced more or less in every province of the world. As almost 100% of the world population at the time of the game were farmers almost everyone produced food, mainly in the form of grains. For most people food wasn´t a great trade commodity, most of it was produced by themselves or extremely locally.


An alternative is the way Victoria manages resources, where every province has the potential to produce a number of resources. One province can have mines and farms.


I understand that the system is already set, so I do not ask for any change, simply curious about how it will work and how you think about the abstraction behind the choice.