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Tinto Talks #44 - 1st of January 2025

Hello Everyone, and Welcome to a new Tinto Talks. This is the Happy Wednesday, where we give you information about our future upcoming top secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

Today we’ll go over all the trade goods we have in the game. Goods that are raw materials may be extracted from RGO operations in the locations that have them present, but many of them also have buildings that can produce their goods at a slightly less efficiency or capacity for when you need access to it.

Produced goods can only be produced from various buildings.

Some goods have a base-production, which is added to each market, scaled by total development of that market.

Some resources require more trade capacity than others to move a resource between markets. Unless specified, the transport cost is 1.

Default prices is the price a goods would have if supply and demand are matching exactly. The price in each market depends on the supply and demand of the goods in that actual market. The price range changes depending on the age, where in Age of Tradition, prices currently range from 50% to 200% of the default price, while in Age of Revolutions the prices range from 20% to 500% of the default price.

Goods are required by pops, units, building inputs, constructions and more. One important aspect is that you actually need the goods, and if the demand is higher than the supply, then buildings or pops in locations further away from the market center will not get the goods they require!


Raw Materials

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Horses


Default Price is 3 and Transport Cost is 2

Horses were domesticated at an unknown point of the Eurasian Steppe around six thousand years ago. Since then, they have been used by people for a wide variety of tasks, although the most important has been waging war. In that sense, the Middle Ages were the Golden Age of cavalry, as it was closely linked to the development of feudal societies.

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Clay
Default Price is 0.25 and it has a base production of 0.02

Clay is a type of soil that has been used by humanity for the production of pottery and ceramics since prehistoric times. Another main use is in construction, in combination with other materials, or in the creation of bricks. Clay tablets were also one of the first writing methods invented, so its impact in the development of civilization is undeniable.

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Sand
Default Price is 0.5 and it has a base production of 0.01

Sand is one of the most common materials on Earth, and its uses are multiple and varied. It has been the most pervasive abrading material used to shape any kind of stone or metal due to it being coarse and rough, as a component of many building materials and as the main material for the production of glass, among many other uses.

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Stone
Default price is 1, it has a transport cost of 5, and a base production of 0.01

Stone has been one of the main building materials of humanity throughout all its history. Stronger and more durable than other options like clay or wood, it was the go-to material for any construction built to last. Buildings from long ago like the Pyramids have reached our times still standing due to the durability of the stone they were made of.

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Coal
Default Price is 2 and has a transport cost of 2

Coal has a long history as a source of fuel, but it is not until the invention and dissemination of the practical steam engine that demand would take off. As the Industrial Revolution swept across Europe, the use and export or import of coal would become a major business and an integral part of a modern economy.

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Iron
Default Price is 3 and has a transport cost of 2

Iron represents not just iron, but other ferrous metals and the production of alloys such as steel. Iron formed the basis of the metallurgical industry and was used extensively in the production of weapons and other military equipment.

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Copper
Default Price is 3 and has a transport cost of 2

Copper was the main component of bronze and was essential in the early production of cannons.

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Gold

Default Price is 10, but the production impacts inflation.

Gold was the basis of many formal currencies in Europe. The great gold mines of Central and South America would end the great bullion crisis that had gripped Europe in the previous century. However, unwise usage of this great wealth could lead to inflation and ruin.

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Silver
Default Price is 8, but the production impacts inflation.

Silver was one of the first metals used as money and the most successful along with gold. Central Europe became the center of silver production during the Middle Ages, although the Columbian Exchange shifted the focus of world production to the Americas, making it the main production center of a newborn global network since the 16th century.


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Tin
Default Price is 2

Tin was used extensively for the first time in metallurgy as part of the alloy to obtain bronze 5000 years ago. Later it has been widely used to coat other metals and alloys, such as iron, lead or steel, to prevent corrosion, as well as to make pewter, very common in tableware.

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Lead
Default Price is 2

Lead has been obtained since ancient times as a by-product of silver extraction by burning galena. Lead was then used in a wide range of household and manufactured products, especially by the Romans, whose levels of lead production were not reached until the Industrial Revolution. In the Modern Age, it became the main material for making bullets for firearms.

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Silk

Default Price is 4

The finest of all fabrics of the east was the silk produced in India, China, and East Asia. While less iconic than spices, the profits from silk and finely woven cotton cloth would in fact soon dwarf those of the spice trade for the European East India Companies. Due to increasing demand attempts were also made to produce the material locally in mercantilist Europe, with very varied degrees of success.

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Dyes
Default Price is 4 and transport cost is 0.5

For as long as textiles have been woven there has been a market for fine dyes. During the late Middle Ages expensive dyes such as indigo would be worth a fortune due to how distant the source in India was. As the world opened up dyes became easier to get hold of, both through the possibilities to produce them in America and the greater accessibility of the Indian market. Nonetheless, dyes remained rare and in the early 19th century; as the dye plantations in India fell into European hands, a veritable gold rush ensued.

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Incense

Default Price is 2.5 and transport cost is 0.5

To spread smoke and fragrance through the burning of materials has been common in ceremonial practices for centuries. Frankincense, agarwood, sandalwood, myrrh, and other goods suited for this use can be found in few places and their diffusion was an integral part in the formation of trade networks such as the Silk Road or the fittingly named Incense Route.

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Tea

Default Price is 3

Tea was an important luxury drink in China, India, and South-East Asia. It was often used in religious or social rituals. The English popularized tea in Europe. Never considered as noble a drink as coffee, it still produced large profit merely from the fact that the world supply was low.

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Cocoa

Default Price is 4

Cocoa was used as a stimulant by the Aztec, Incan, and Indian rulers since the early medieval times. It was popularized in Europe in the early 16th century when the Spaniards imported it from its American colonies. Cocoa became a luxury enjoyed by the rich.

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Coffee

Default Price is 3

Coffee was discovered in the northeast region of Ethiopia and coffee cultivation first took place in southern Arabia. From the Middle East, coffee spread to Italy in the 17th century and was then introduced to the rest of Europe. Coffee became more widely accepted after it was deemed a Christian beverage by Pope Clement VIII in 1600, despite appeals to ban the 'Muslim drink'.

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Fiber Crops

Default Price is 2

Many different fibrous crops are used all around the world to craft a multitude of products such as sails, ropes, fishing nets, and clothes. Beyond their use to produce coarse textiles, however, many are also used as a core part of the production of finer textiles, used in ceremonies, households, and elsewhere. Some examples are hemp, flax, jute, and sisal.

icon_goods_ivory.png

Ivory
Default Price is 4

Ivory was one of the main exports of Africa apart from slaves. It was highly sought after by Europeans for use in various manufactured goods such as cutlery, gifts, small pieces of art, furniture, etc.

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Fur
Default Price is 2

Furs were one of the basic elements of high quality and warm clothing. Skins from all kinds of animals were supplied initially from Russia but more and more from North America where beavers would be the prize of choice at least till the late middle 18th century.

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Lumber
Default Price is 1 and the base production is 0.005

Lumber has been one of the main building materials for humanity throughout all its history. Although less durable than stone, it is more easily accessible have made it a staple of any building in all places of the world. Even structures designed to be resistant like castles and fortifications have also their versions made out of wood rather than stone.

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Salt

Default Price is 3

Salt is essential for human life. In addition, it was the most common means to preserve food for the long winter months. It was either mineral, brought from mines in Central Europe, or natural, from salt wetlands production via evaporation along sunny coastlines.

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Medicaments
Default Price is 1 and transport cost is 0.5

A wide variety of plants and animal products have been used throughout history to treat all kinds of illnesses, due to their medicinal properties or supposition thereof. Some were more based on actual properties than others, while in some cases it was more a matter of belief in their effectiveness.

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Gems
Default Price is 4 and transport cost is 0.5

Since the earliest times, stones such as rubies, sapphires, diamonds, emeralds, jade, or pearls, have been used in jewelry and ceremonial attire. For centuries the only source of diamonds in the world were the fabled mines at Golconda. While not all precious stones are as rare, they are all highly sought-after commodities.


icon_goods_pearls.png


Pearls
Default Price is 4

Pearls are produced inside different kinds of shelled mollusks. The resulting product is a hard glistening object, ideally round but can take many shapes. They have been appreciated for their beauty and used like gemstones as ornaments all over the world through all human history.

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Amber
Default Price is 4

Amber is a valuable good made from fossilized resin that was primarily used in the manufacture of jewelry and ornaments. Its main source has been depots on the Prussian coast, mentioned for the first time in a 12th-century document.

icon_goods_saltpeter.png

Saltpeter
Default Price is 2

Saltpeter has been known since antiquity, and its uses have been varied such as a fertilizer or as salt for meat processing. However, it was the invention of gunpowder and firearms during the Middle Ages that really raised its importance, as it is one of the main components of it, together with charcoal and sulfur. Mined in great quantities around the world, this metal will go on to acquire an infamous reputation.

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Alum
Default Price is 3

Alum is an essential ingredient in dye-making as well as specializing in the tanning process. Seeing use in a variety of artistic and craft contexts, it is primarily utilized in painting and illuminating processes. Originating mostly from the Chad region, it was traded in the markets of the entire Islamic world, but in the Late Middle Ages, other sources started to be exploited in Europe.

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Spices
Default Price is 6 and the transport cost is 0.25

Spices have been known in Europe since ancient times, mostly for their medicinal value, and for their ability to improve the taste of food. Pepper, ginger, nutmeg, chili, cinnamon, etc. came partly from East Africa but mostly from India, China, and the Spice Islands (current Indonesia), to be traded in Alexandria or the other terminals of the great caravan roads. The European desire for cheaper and more direct supply constituted the main motivation for the very first eastbound sea voyages of discoveries for Portugal.

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Wine
Default Price is 2

Wines have been produced since time immemorial in the southern parts of Europe. It still constituted an essential element of the everyday diet, except maybe in the Muslim world. Wine was not considered a luxury product but probably served as a welcome relief for hundreds to an otherwise dull diet.

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Elephants
Default Price is 10

Elephants have been used in warfare since ancient times in India, South East Asia, the Middle East, and North Africa. The use of elephantry persisted in some of these regions into the Middle Ages, although the advent of gunpowder warfare in the Modern Age outpaced its usefulness in battle.

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Marble
Default Price is 5

Marble has been used in sculptures and constructions since Antiquity, being considered a type of luxurious material due to its appearance and ductility. Some of the best works of art made by Renaissance and Baroque artists, such as Michelangelo or Bernini, are made of marble.

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Mercury
Default Price is 3

Mercury is used for medicine, but will also be of great importance to refine gold and silver ores of lesser qualities in order to make them profitable.

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Cotton
Default Price is 3

Cotton originated from Central Asia but was not widely used in Europe until it was introduced to the American colonies and used as a cheap but good complement or substitute for wool in the clothing industry of the late 18th century

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Sugar
Default Price is 3

Sugar was used not only as a sweetener but also for food preservation. The sugar cane was the only known means of obtaining sugar at this time and had been grown initially in some Mediterranean islands. But the labor-intensive plantation system in America, especially in the Caribbean islands, would soon move the major production sources overseas.

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Tobacco
Default Price is 3

Tobacco was unknown in Europe until brought from Americans in the late 16th century. It quickly became a fashion for the upper classes who could afford it and ensured the fast and profitable economic growth of the British colonies in North America, as well as in Portuguese Brazil.



Food

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Wool
Default Price is 2.5 and produces 5 food per unit produced.

Wool came mostly from sheep that grazed in the more marginal lands not suited to other forms of agriculture. Prior to the use of cotton, it was the major raw material for clothing.

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Wild Game
Default Price is 1 and produces 2.5 food per unit produced.

Wild game is the source of food and nutrition for local populations, especially in sparsely populated rural communities. The hunt of wild animals such as elk, deer, boars and more, are an important cornerstone of a society due to the fact that the aforementioned animals contribute leather, bones, entrails and nutrition to the populace.

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Fish
Default Price is 1 and produces 5 food per unit produced.

Fish was one of the most basic foods for the European population in this age, as meat was more than a luxury for the great majority. Fishermen also provided the basic recruiting pool of the merchant and military navies of most nations.

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Wheat
Default Price is 1 and produces 8 food per unit produced.

Wheat represents the vegetable foodstuff that was the staple diet for humans and animals. Lack of it would always lead to revolts and riots. Other cereals and vegetable foodstuffs would later be augmented by tomatoes, corn, and even potatoes from America offering a wider choice both in food and agricultural production varieties.

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Soybeans
Default Price is 1 and produces 6 food per unit produced.

Soybeans are a type of legume that have been a staple crop in East Asia for almost ten thousand years. Their uses are quite versatile, as not only can they be eaten by themselves, but also milk can be extracted from them, which can also be further processed into tofu. Soybeans can also be fermented into products such as soy sauce and miso.

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Maize
Default Price is 1 and produces 8 food per unit produced.

A cultivated plant that was originally domesticated in Mexico, thousands of years ago, maize was traded between the new and the old world with the arrival of the Europeans in the 15th century. Due to its enduring nature as well as its higher dietary value, maize is destined to become a worldwide commodity.

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Rice
Default Price is 1 and produces 10 food per unit produced.

Rice is a type of grain that has been the staple food for Asia since its domestication more than ten thousand years ago. It was also independently domesticated in Africa more than three thousand years ago, and it has also been an important food source there ever since. It was brought to Europe through trade with Asia as far back as Classical Antiquity, although it did not manage to supersede other types of grain there.

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Sturdy Grains
Default Price is 1 and produces 5 food per unit produced.

Sturdy Grains are different kinds of cereal grasses that have been domesticated in many parts of the World at different points in time ever since the Neolithic. Their greater resistance to poor quality soils and dry conditions have made them into a more important food source in semi-arid regions compared to other kinds of grain.

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Legumes
Default Price is 1 and produces 5 food per unit produced.

Various civilizations across history have utilized legumes as a substantial source of nutrition for thousands of years. Much like maize, Europeans were introduced to new types of them with their eventual arrival on the shores of the New World. Legumes were not only filling but also cheap to produce and move on ships.

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Potato
Default Price is 1 and produces 8 food per unit produced.

The potato is a starchy tuber domesticated around Lake Titicaca by the native people of the Andes. It helped the rise of the Andean civilizations thanks to its hardiness and high caloric density. After the Columbian exchange, it spread all around the globe and by 1750 it was a staple food in Europe facilitating its 19th-century population boom.

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Livestock
Default Price is 1.5 and produces 8 food per unit produced.

Since the dawn of history, the care for domesticated animals has been one of the main occupations of humanity. Livestock includes everything from cows and horses in rich agricultural areas to the herds of pastoralists in the great plains and deserts of the world.

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Olives
Default Price is 1 and produces 4 food per unit produced.

Olives are harvested from the trees of the same name, which have been cultivated around the Mediterranean Sea for thousands of years. They are highly appreciated in gastronomy, especially the olive oil that is used to cook and dress a wide range of foods in Mediterranean cuisine.

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Dates
Default Price is 1 and produces 4 food per unit produced.

Dates are a type of fruit harvested from date palm trees, which grow in semi-arid, but fertile terrains throughout the Middle East and North Africa. Dates are widely used in the different cuisines of these regions.

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Fruit
Default Price is 1 and produces 4 food per unit produced.

Fruits cover a wide range of products found on trees such as citrus, bitter and sweet oranges, apples and more. For many, these products would be unattainable and a source of nutrition only for the elites. Nearly every region across the world is home to a different kind of fruit and the advent of global trade would go on to introduce different populations to various new fruits.


Produced Goods

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Tar
Default Price is 2

Originally propped up as a cash crop, tar is a valuable ingredient of the ship-building business. Its appearance, that of a thick black liquid, is due to the aggressive distillation process that is required for its production. Tar is widely used as a seal for ship hulls and as a cheap way to waterproof sails.

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Porcelain
Default Price is 3 and the transport cost is 0.5

Porcelain is a type of ceramics characterized by its strength and translucence due to the vitrification of the materials caused by high temperatures. It was developed in China over a period of time starting more than three thousand years ago, with proper porcelain being developed already almost two thousand years ago, and from there, it eventually spread to all over the world as a highly sought-after commodity.

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Naval Supplies
Default Price is 3

Naval Supplies represent everything needed in ship construction, from basic wood to tar, ropes, linen, sails, and various other materials. The Baltic was initially the main supplier until North America became an alternate source of supply in the early 18th century. Colonial expansion into America was in part to secure supplies of such vital goods.

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Firearms
Default Price is 3

The conception and arrival of guns changed the dynamic of battlefields. Wars waged across Asia and Europe will now be subject to cultivating, importing and harnessing the potency of gunpowder. Guns have become a natural evolution of warfare and an essential part of protecting the sovereignty of domains across the earth.

icon_goods_cannons.png

Cannons
Default Price is 4 and transport cost is 1.5

Although siege weapons have existed since antiquity, the discovery of gunpowder has given rise to some weapons with a potentially destructive power that has never been seen before. The ability to throw bigger projectiles at greater speed and distances than ever before will make all but the sturdiest of fortifications quickly fall before them, without mentioning the effect those projectiles can have when fired towards armies themselves.

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Weaponry
Default Price is 3

Various weapons such as swords, pikes, and bows make up the core weaponry of every army. The techniques behind their creation are an art refined throughout the ages. Despite that and regardless of how different the era may be, weaponry will always be a vital instrument to protect one's independence.

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Glass
Default Price is 2 and transport cost is 0.5

Glass has been valued for centuries as a useful material for art, architecture, or simply the crafting of vessels for daily use. Eventually, as glassmaking techniques improved, glass would also become crucial to the scientific field of optics, with glass lenses being used in the fabrication of spectacles, telescopes, and a plethora of other devices with wide-ranging applications from maritime navigation to the natural sciences.

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Steel
Default Price is 5 and transport cost is 2

Steel is widely used for the crafting of weaponry and guns. Various of its qualities are used for different weapons, blunt steel for axes and high-quality steel for swords and knives. As such, steel is also employed as the main metal for the forging of equipment and tools.

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Cloth
Default Price is 3

Cloth represents the various fabrics and clothing made from wool and linen. Later cotton, imported from India and the Americas, became a major material for cloth.

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Fine Cloth
Default Price is 6

Fine clothing was traditionally a marker of status for the elites and wealthy classes. Textiles such as damasks, muslins, or brocades were marketed and replicated throughout the world as a very profitable business in the Middle and Modern Ages.

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Liquor
Default Price is 2.5

Liquor is an alcoholic beverage produced by distillation of very different types of products of plant origin. Distillation is done to increase the alcohol by volume. Popular liquors distilled and consumed around the world were gin, rum, whisky, vodka, tequila, or shōchū.

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Beer
Default Price is 2

Beer has been a pillar of gastronomy since it was first brewed in the Neolithic. It became a widespread drink in the Middle Ages, and was the object of the oldest food-quality regulation still in use, the Bavarian 'Reinheitsgebot'.

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Slaves
Default Price is 3

Slaves had been a trading commodity since Antiquity, but demand increased sharply in the late 16th century when Slaves offered one of the cheapest sources of labor for European plantations in the Americas.

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Paper
Default Price is 2

Paper is a necessity for all types of advanced accounting, administration, and diffusion of knowledge. The process of its production was originally devised in China and then slowly made its way to all corners of the Old World. Far superior to other types of writing materials such as parchment, the large-scale production of paper requires a specialized set of skills and equipment, making it a rare and sought after commodity.

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Books
Default Price is 5

Books have been one of the main custodians of human knowledge since writing was invented thousands of years ago. They were usually made of leather parchment, paper, and other plant fibers. The invention and spread of movable type printing systems in the Middle Ages made books much more widespread and accessible to the population.

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Jewelry
Default Price is 5 and transport cost is 0.5

Jewelry represents a set of regalia or ornaments that are crafted by skilled smiths using jewels and precious stones. Their value is often associated with high social standing and even royalty.

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Leather
Default Price is 3

One of humanity's earliest discoveries, leather is largely used in the manufacturing of clothes, footwear, and decoration. Its success is largely attributed to its high level of comfort and durability, eventually becoming the choice material for the making of dinner-related furniture, due to leather being easy to maintain while being resistant to absorbing food odor.

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Tools
Default Price is 3

The production of tools is the main factor that allowed human society to flourish. From the more simple and primitive stone tools to the most advanced and precise implements developed through the use of metallurgy, they allow the further creation of equipment and weapons.


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Masonry
Default Price is 1

Construction techniques come in all shapes and sizes. The ability to fabricate smaller pieces with a regular size and shape to use in construction greatly increases not only the efficiency in which buildings can be constructed but also their durability once built.


icon_goods_lacquerware.png

Lacquerware
Default Price is 5

Lacquerware was developed in China and Japan as far back as the Neolithic period, more than ten thousand years ago, and consists in covering products made of wood or metal with a decorative layer of lacquer, a product extracted from resin and wax. This lacquer layer can then be further decorated with paintings, carvings or dustings of gold or silver making it into a luxurious good.

Stay Tuned, as next week we'll delve into the effects of all vegetations, topography and climate.
 
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Do Elephants produce Ivory as a byproduct?
View attachment 1240187 View attachment 1240188

If so, then why can't we have a group for Artic Game? Consisting of both Whaling and Walrus hunting? If that isn't possible, maybe allow for exploration type expeditions to the Artic that allow you to establish some sort of outposts. Which both provide food. Would be neat if we could establish a building on Svalbard and slowly expand it to process the Artic Game, which then turn the Artic Game into both ivory, (with the absence of blubber) and fish (meat or some other food value).

View attachment 1240210

I do understand why Ivory and Elephants are separate goods. Ivory mainly came from hunting wild Elephants, Rhinos, Narwals and Walruses while Elephants for army uses were bred and trained in a more domesticated enviornment and you basically didn't get any Ivory from them. It would have been silly to breed and feed Elephants for a decade or 2 only to kill them for Ivory.

Also, I wouldn't put Artic Game together. Whaling was a massive industry and it only produced blubber. During the time period of the game in most cases only blubber was taken from whales while the rest (including bones and meat) were left behind and it sinked to the bottom of the sea. Whales weren't used for ivory production (at least not in most cases). While at the same time, blubber became a main incredient for oil lamps until mid 19th century when petrolium and mixtures made with alchol started to replace whale oil. Basically use of whaling would be more similar to Apiary Goods than hunting or ivory prioduction. At the same time, main reason for hunting Walruses and Narwals was Ivory production.

Because of all of that I would keep Elephants separate from Ivory and I would add in addition to those 2 Blubber as a resource for producing sources of light (including oil lamps)
 
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I am not aware of it so i must ask. Are slaves as a good tied to the pop count in a province and the continued extraction will transfer pops from one place to another? Are there mechanics from which a local power can conduct slave raids to sell and inflate the number of slaves as a good which can be sold to buyers? This would fit for Coastal African powers which would make a mint from selling captives to Europeans in West African ports.
 
For iron I think a better image would be of a bundle of long, thin bars like these:

1736182779134.jpeg
1736182817461.png


I think the images might be from slightly after the PC time frame (the former is from the 1830s I think). The point is this how iron was shaped for export, at least in Sweden. There are probably equivalents for other metals. Ores are generally not trade good (as true then as now) as it is way too heavy for what you get out of it. So you want to do as much work as possible as close to the source. Even exporting raw iron like this isn't ideal but it at least happened.
 
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I really appreciated the idea that some goods have a base-production, but I don't understand why only 4 goods have this feature (Clay, Sand, Stone and Lumber).
I would sat that these exist with base-production and not others as they are probably the basic building materials to get other buildings running.

Ivory mainly came from hunting wild Elephants, Rhinos, Narwals and Walruses..
Rhino's were hunter for their horn, but is hair (keratin) and not ivory.
 
One thing to remember is that while adding new goods you should be thinking on how that affects building.

Looking at these two buildings
1720713033368.png
There doesn't appear to be any difference between Ivory, Amber, Gems, or Pearls. Unless there is other buildings where there are differences what is the use of have the four goods?

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Rice, Potato, and Wheat all have the same effect (and why can't we use sturdy grains or maize)
 
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We see here that there is a cost of transport in money to certain ressources, could there also be a cost in ressources for the transport of all ressources ? This cost would depend on the commercial road taken and its length (for example you'd have a cost in naval goods to go overseas and on rivers and lakes, a cost in horses to go on land and a cost in camels for deserts)
 
... During the time period of the game in most cases only blubber was taken from whales while the rest (including bones and meat) were left behind and it sinked to the bottom of the sea. Whales weren't used for ivory production (at least not in most cases) ...

That's why Arctic Game in general, as it'd include Walrus.

The Elephants part does make sense, but wouldn't that be something you could do with a local building to allow for such specialization? But I guess at this point we're making it more complex than it has to be to save on resource variation.

Vanilla stick?

It looks like a cinnamon stick and some bay leaves! Obviously spices. ;)

Yes. Yes. You're right, haha.
 
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That's why Arctic Game in general, as it'd include Walrus.

The Elephants part does make sense, but wouldn't that be something you could do with a local building to allow for such specialization? But I guess at this point we're making it more complex than it has to be to save on resource variation.
To me it seems that the main thing that is missing is whaling industry and not walrus hunting. Walruses are already covered by ivory. At the same time the whole whale hunting and industry that surrounded it (mainly production of oil for oil lamps) is missing from the game. That is the reason why we need resource that represents whaling (like blubber) and why we do not need "artic game" as a resource. In places where seals and walruses were hunted more for the blubber those can also have the blubber resource. This is also better solution because whaling as a whole was more influential and important than walrus hunting. Mudding up whaling with "artic game" would be just foolish.

As far as elephants go, war elephants were usually bred and trained far away from places where elephants were hunted for ivory. Adding a new building and replacing elephants with ivory would be utter non-sense.
 
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To me the main thing that is missing is whaling industry and not walrus hunting. Walruses are already covered by ivory. At the same time the whole whale hunting and industry that surrounded it (mainly production of oil for oil lamps) is missing from the game. That is the reason why we need resource that represents whaling (like blubber) and why we do not need "artic game" as a resource. In places where seals and walruses were hunted more for the blubber those can also have the blubber resource. This is also better solution because whaling as a whole was more influential and important than walrus hunting. Mudding up whaling with "artic game" would be just foolish.
Though, whaling is not really bound to the location itself (even less than fishing). So, this could just be a production building that produces fish and blubber/lighting fuel/oil, unlocked later. Maybe allow to build it on all coasts (except the Caspian and Great Lakes)?
 
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Though, whaling is not really bound to the location itself (even less than fishing). So, this could just be a production building that produces fish and blubber/lighting fuel/oil, unlocked later. Maybe allow to build it on all coasts (except the Caspian and Great Lakes)?
It didn't happen just anywhere. There were few specific locations (like Newfoundland island, Labrador peninsula and Basque coast) where it was more common and those places became more known for whaling. While whaling as an act was not heavily bound to a location, production related to whaling and skill for whaling was. Also, similar logic could be used for almost all resources in the game. Almost all (except maybe minerals, gems, amber etc) could be replaced by buildings. In reality there usually isn't a region (that is similar size to in-game location) that can only grow strudy grains or only be used for lumber production or only grow fruits. In reality in-game locations most likely produced throughout history a myraid of things and during history they might have changed the main good they produced. One location could have produced apples, rye, pork, lumber, fish, beeswax etc. But clearly that kind of mixed production is not what devs aim to depict in the game.
 
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It didn't happen just anywhere. There were few specific locations (like Newfoundland island, Labrador peninsula and Basque coast) where it was more common and those places became more known for whaling. Also, similar logic could be used for almost all resources in the game. Almost all (except maybe minerals, gems, amber etc) could be replaced by buildings. In reality there usually isn't a region (that is similar size to in-game location) that can only grow strudy grains or only be used for lumber production or only grow fruits. In reality in-game location most likely produced throughout history a myraid of things and during history they might have changed the main good they produced. But clearly that kind of mixed production is not what devs aim to depict in the game.
Part of the issue is how specialized and small the whaling industry was during most of the period. The only people doing oceanic whaling hunting before the start is the Basques AFAIK, everywhere else it was a coastal industry as much for food as for oil. Whaling only really started taking off during the 1700s throughout the rest of the world as a source for oil, and even more so in the 1800s, at which point we are at the end of PC timeline.

So to that end I agree with @tinholt, I'd prefer if whaling was represented as a building (whaling port) that produced wax/oil (blubber and spermaceti), food, ivory (baleen), and incense/medicaments (ambergris). I'd be open to representing the dominance of oil as a product with different production methods (same inputs gives more oil and less of the other outputs). I just don't think it needs its own RGO.
 
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Part of the issue is how specialized and small the whaling industry was during most of the period. The only people doing oceanic whaling hunting before the start is the Basques AFAIK, everywhere else it was a coastal industry as much for food as for oil. Whaling only really started taking off during the 1700s throughout the rest of the world as a source for oil, and even more so in the 1800s, at which point we are at the end of PC timeline.

So to that end I agree with @tinholt, I'd prefer if whaling was represented as a building (whaling port) that produced wax/oil (blubber and spermaceti), food, ivory (baleen), and incense/medicaments (ambergris). I'd be open to representing the dominance of oil as a product with different production methods (same inputs gives more oil and less of the other outputs). I just don't think it needs its own RGO.
Read up history of whaling. During game time period most whalers only took blubber and rest of the whale fell to the sea floor. It was mostly during the time period of Vic 3 that whaling found more uses.

Also, I think it is quite obvious that when you start specilizing on whaling, your poduction of fish would fall and likely you would have to become a bigger fish/food importer. Without "blubber" RGO fish production would stay the same.

In addition, I find it way too messy to add another level of raw material production that isn't visible on the map. Currently only Goods aren't visible. I find it especially ridiculous when fish as a RGO is already very common. There is no primal reason to add such uneccesary complexity simply to keep more fish RGOs arround.
 
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Read up history of whaling. During game time period most whalers only took blubber and rest of the whale fell to the sea floor. It was mostly during the time period of Vic 3 that whaling found more uses.
Except that coastal whaling, which is most prevalent for at least the first two or three centuries of PC timeline was done for food as well. Oceanic whaling is a different matter, but it was a very small industry, it's strange to add RGO for such a small industry.
Also, I think it is quite obvious that when you start specilizing on whaling, your poduction of fish would fall and likely you would have to become a bigger fish/food importer. Without "blubber" RGO fish production would stay the same.
Is that obvious? Why? Couldn't I just build more boats and employ more people? Then both industries would stay the same size. And as I said, I'm open to different production methods producing less food.
In addition, I find it way too messy to add another level of raw material production that isn't visible on the map. Currently only Goods aren't visible. I find it especially ridiculous when fish as a RGO is already very common. There is no primal reason to add such uneccesary complexity simply to keep more fish RGOs arround.
We know that there is raw material production that isn't on the map since they discussed innate production in this dev diary. And we also know there are buildings that produce raw material (they just need inputs when RGOs don't).
 
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It didn't happen just anywhere. There were few specific locations (like Newfoundland island, Labrador peninsula and Basque coast) where it was more common and those places became more known for whaling. While whaling as an act was not heavily bound to a location, production related to whaling and skill for whaling was. Also, similar logic could be used for almost all resources in the game. Almost all (except maybe minerals, gems, amber etc) could be replaced by buildings. In reality there usually isn't a region (that is similar size to in-game location) that can only grow strudy grains or only be used for lumber production or only grow fruits. In reality in-game locations most likely produced throughout history a myraid of things and during history they might have changed the main good they produced. One location could have produced apples, rye, pork, lumber, fish, beeswax etc. But clearly that kind of mixed production is not what devs aim to depict in the game.
Whaling was utterly unimportant until the 17th century. And while fishing makes some sense to be restricted to a location, as it uses smaller boats and there is a lack of refrigeration, whaling is done more on the open seas with ships. In the middle ages, "whaling" was more like using whales stranded on the beach, less active hunting.
There needs to be some mechanism to restrict it to locations where it makes sense (there should be whales inside a certain radius of seazones), but fixing it as an RGO feels wrong. Maybe it is an oceanic resource that can be exploited by coastal locations in a certain tech-dependent radius with whaling station building. They all compete for the same resource.

As for "there isn't a region that can only grow XXX": yes, this is an acceptable abstraction given limited granularity. Basically all locations in a given market / area represent the mix of resources available in either of them. If there are three adjacent locations producing wheat, lumber and sturdy grains, one would in reality each of them to produce a mix of the three (plus other goods in smaller proportions).

As whales would produce a secondary resource that grows in importance over time and are taken from the high seas, representing it by buildings seems fine to me. This actually requires some infrastructure.
 
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