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Tinto Talks #46 - 15th of January 2025

Welcome to another Tinto Talks. The Happy Wednesday where we talk about our rather secret game with the code name of Project Caesar.

This week we will talk about military objectives and how they work in Project Caesar.

As our games grow more complex as the decades go by, we have tried to alleviate some of the concerns about micromanagement of military aspects. Back in the days of Hearts of Iron III, we could set province objectives for parts of an army hierarchy and enable the AI for them, and the AI would try to fulfill them. In post release EU4 we added missions where navies could be assigned to patrol areas or blockade or an army could be set to siege an area. Hearts of Iron IV introduced the system of painting on the map how you wanted the armies to fight, and when we made Imperator we ended up with the system that I personally feel is best for our games, an objectives-based system, where you can give units objectives that they try to do.

So for Project Caesar this is the path we are taking. And as we have been developing a new core architecture for the game, our AI has also been written from scratch for this game, of course, based on decades of experience making AI for GSG’s. This means that the military AI is using the same building blocks as the player can use with the UI.

In the military view for your country there is a tab for your recruiting and overview of your units, and one for handling your objectives. You can also assign objectives directly to a unit you have selected of course, but that will also be shown in the objectives view.

Objectives can be assigned by selecting the target area, province, location or sea-zone in the UI, or by clicking directly on the map.

Any objective can easily be edited while active, and units can be added or removed from them at any time.

carpet_siege.png


These are the objectives we currently have during wartime.

Blockade Ports
Any navy can be assigned to it, and you select which seazones they should be present in. It will then split ships up to attempt to blockade as many enemy ports as possible.

Carpet Siege
Here you can select which provinces should be sieged down, and the AI will split the armies you have assigned into smaller units and move them around to siege or occupy as much as possible as quickly as possible. It will attempt to flee with the armies if any hostile armies appear.

Defend Home Territory
This will attempt to protect the areas near the capital with the armies you assign, to make sure no hostile armies siege them down.

Hunt Armies
This objective will use the armies you have assigned to attempt to find enemy armies and engage them if it feels it can win.

hunt_armies.png


We can see two smaller hostile armies in Przasnysz & Sierpc..

Patrol the Seas
This is an objective that can be useful at peace time as well, as it will use the assigned navies to attempt to build up the maritime presence as quickly as possible in the assigned seazones.

Army Logistics
This is something you may want to assign to a support army with Auxiliaries on big campaigns. They will gather food where it's possible nearby and move it forward to deposit in any Supply Depots you have set in the target area.

Navy Logistics
This will assign a navy to gather food at a nearby source and then go to the target seazone(s) and act as logistic support for the armies that may require it.

Supporting objectives
There are a lot of sub-objective and supporting objectives that are primarily used by the AI, like join units, maintain troop levels, etc..

However, there are a few important support objectives that the player can use directly.

Chase target
This can be done when you see an enemy unit and wish to follow it and engage it. The unit will attempt to follow, but if it runs out of morale from movement, or the enemy manages to escape into the Fog of War, it may be lost.

Automatic Fleet Transport
This objective is automatically used, and is very similar to mechanics in EU4 and Imperator when you have an army and give it order to go somewhere they need naval transport. If there are navies assigned to support fleet transports, and you give an army the order, it will automatically create the objective and perform it for you.

Repatriate Units
This is a quick action when you just want your armies or navies that are exiled after a war to get home as soon as possible.



Next week we will talk about our new and in-depth Union mechanics, and how Regencies work..
 
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Is there so much need for carpet sieging in PC? I thought it was going to have the same basic siege mechanics from Imperator, where if you siege down all the forts and take the provincial capital, the other minor locations will automatically quickly siege themselves and become occupied by you as well. This was a good feature and more realistic - armies did not tend to waste time walking to every little village, the focus was always on the main strategic locations.
 
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How good is an army/fleet when it comes to re-grouping to support portions split off for an objective, so that they are not easy pickings for the enemy?
 
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Considering that warfare is going to be much more opaque and unpredictable (which I'm absolutly a fan of) because of how terrain will affect fog of war, would it be possible to have a sort of "scouting" mechanic.
You could have a mechanic that allows you to set an army as the scout of the other. You could then assign different automatic orders to that scouting army.
For example, there could be an order that makes the scouting army advance one or several tiles in front of its attached army, that way it acts as a scouting party/vanguard
You could also have an order that makes one or several scouting armies make rounds around your army to scout

Then you could also assign a stance those army take, if they see another army, do they attack or do they wait for you to attack, do they run back to you. If an army is caught in a fight, should it try to escape as quick as possible (if you built it more like a scouting party with quick units), or should it stay and fight while waiting for the main forces (if you built it more like a vanguard with units that can hold on while the army is comming

Would that be possible to implement ?
 
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It's not enough with colonial empires

When I want to cross the channel with 10 troops, and I have 5 transport in England and 10 in Australia, I don't want Australia to come in England (what it does in eu4) but I'd rather do 2 crossings with the fleet in england

Or your fleet of heavies has captured a transport ship so your whole navy goes on a trip to the other side of the world for the sake of a boat or two.
 
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Experience has taught me to distrust automated warfare systems, but I've never played Imperator. If it allows full unit micro it'll be good in my book at least. A minor note, "carpet siege" feels like too gamey a term to include as a actual objective, maybe something like "occupy territory" would fit better
 
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All i want is an AI that is not sieging random provinces in Siberia because there is no fort but instead goes for a deceicive battle for a change
Pfft, next you'll want your allies to actually move one province to help win the battle that would destroy the enemy army!
 
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Can we expect to see more granular control of orders like Hunt armies, or defend territory?
I really liked those features from imperator, but sometimes they'd go on a while goose chase way far away because I wasn't paying attention to them. Either something like the carpet siege area selection, or like a campaign based solution would be nice. I'd especially like to say "hunt armies in these two areas and don't let them pass the choke point" or similar.
And please for the love of God return the feature from eu4 for carpet siege where you can just not click and area and have them just do it anywhere.

As an aside, being able to hunt rebels in allied land would be nice, which is not possible in eu4.

Lastly, the army logistics looks like a dream I really hope this feature plays out well!
 
Experience has taught me to distrust automated warfare systems, but I've never played Imperator. If it allows full unit micro it'll be good in my book at least. A minor note, "carpet siege" feels like too gamey a term to include as a actual objective, maybe something like "occupy territory" would fit better
If it's like how the ai does it in eu4 the army would split into tiny stacks to quickly occupy a large amount of territory. If it works like the eu4 automation feature, then yeah I'd say a different name would be good.
 
1. Would it be possible to choose which fleet would carry out an order to transport units from one province to another?
Mainly, it concerns cases when AI brings a fleet from somewhere in Asia, when we want to move from Cuba to the continent. The option to disable/enable the fleet is not sufficient :/

2. Personally, I miss an option to create "bridges" between locations and assign fleets to them.
For example, we create a bridge between London and Calais, or southern Italy and northern Africa, and assign fleets to these bridges. And when we give an order (or the army simply wants to move from Italy to Africa due to the objectives set for it), it will not rush around the entire sea, but will automatically use the fleet. This may be useful when the sea route is faster than the land route. or we playing as Spain and have Netherlands, or when we have many islands (like Indonesia) and want to transfer an army between them in a relatively automatic way.

Those bridges could be in form of Location A and Location B, or a list of locations between which such a fleet will run and transport units.
So, for example, for such a bridge we add London, Calais and some location in Galicia. And if army from Great britain want to move to Spain, it could be transported via sea from London to Galicia. And if army want to move from Galicia to Netherlands, they will also be transported via navy to Calais if it is faster than by land.
Here, the problem may be assessing how much time such transport will take (if our transport fleet is too small), but it would probably be possible to estimate it more or less
 
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Considering that warfare is going to be much more opaque and unpredictable (which I'm absolutly a fan of) because of how terrain will affect fog of war, would it be possible to have a sort of "scouting" mechanic.
You could have a mechanic that allows you to set an army as the scout of the other. You could then assign different automatic orders to that scouting army.
For example, there could be an order that makes the scouting army advance one or several tiles in front of its attached army, that way it acts as a scouting party/vanguard
You could also have an order that makes one or several scouting armies make rounds around your army to scout

Then you could also assign a stance those army take, if they see another army, do they attack or do they wait for you to attack, do they run back to you. If an army is caught in a fight, should it try to escape as quick as possible (if you built it more like a scouting party with quick units), or should it stay and fight while waiting for the main forces (if you built it more like a vanguard with units that can hold on while the army is comming

Would that be possible to implement ?
A scouting/reconnaissance mechanic would be awesome.

However, I think such a mechanic could be applied to the main army itself - without the need to create "mini" screening armies - in direct relation with the number of units able to perform recon duties present in said army (mainly light cavalry with light infantry/hunters for rougher/more forested terrain).

These units would therefore enable the force they're embedded in to have a greater line of sight/peek into fow locations, maybe with the possible drawback of some direct attrition to said units.

Only my take on the matter, but I'd prefer this sort of "eyes of the army" than having to detach some light cav units and risk having them obliterated if I'm distracted or if the enemy somehow catches them.
 
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