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Tinto Talks #50 - 12th February 2025

Hey everyone, and welcome back. Johan is busy today (allegedly) so instead I will walk you through this Tinto Talks on Formable Countries in our little project called Caesar. It’s a fairly tight feature so this should be nice and quick.



What are Formable Countries?

Basically, formable countries are new tags that you can switch to. Typically they represent historical unions and conquests, but some represent aspirations that never materialised.

Generally speaking, the vision behind Formables is to offer roleplaying and historical immersion, and support player fantasies, rather than modifier stacking. They will change your country name, national flag, and map color. So while you may unlock some content such as advances or other minor unique content, the tag change is often the goal in itself.

Screenshot 2025-02-12 113332.png
Screenshot 2025-02-12 112612.png

Spain gets some unique advances in the later ages, but not all do.

Rather than your country changing automatically every age, you achieve it by completing certain objectives. Usually, you'll need to control a certain percentage of a predefined set of locations, for example Scandinavia needs 75% of the locations in the Scandinavia region.

There’s typically additional requirements as well such as your Primary Culture belonging to a certain Culture Group. Forming Spain also requires you and all the independent countries in Iberia to be Christian, as it is thematically closely tied to the completion of the Reconquista. Iberian Muslims have the reverse rules for forming Al-Andalus.

Some are directly tied to actions in International Organizations, like the Holy Roman Empire or the Ilkhanate.

Formables also have a Tier that represents their natural order of precedence. You can only form countries that are the same or higher tier than you. For example, England (Tier 2) can form Great Britain (Tier 3) but Great Britain can’t form England. The AI will only form countries that are a higher tier.


Screenshot 2025-02-12 124554.png

Country formation is just a click away.


There are 3 settings to the relevant game rule.
  1. Only Historical Formable Countries
    1. Only countries that actually formed in the game’s time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Spain and Great Britain
  2. Allow Plausible Formable Countries(Default)
    1. Countries that could plausible have formed, or formed just after the time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Germany and Italy
  3. Allow Ahistorical Formable Countries
    1. Aspirational or fantasy countries can be formed. Examples include
      1. North Sea Empire (which is a Tier IV) if you control Britain and Scandinavia
      2. Europa (Tier V)



Screenshot 2025-02-12 121247.png

Some countries have different flags depending on the exact manner in which they are formed. For example this variant of the Union Jack with a dominant saltire when you start as Scotland.


1739361227786.png

And some formables come with little treats to sweeten the deal.


Screenshot 2025-02-12 123920.png

The Teutonic Order has a long way to go before they can become Prussia…


Screenshot 2025-02-12 124144.png

But it might be worth it…


Screenshot 2025-02-12 121702.png

Some exist to fulfil common player fantasies, but only appear if the player chooses in the Game Rules to have the less historical ones.



This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!

FormableTierNote
Europa5Ahistorical
Rome4Ahistorical
Hindustan4Plausible
Holy Roman Empire4Plausible
Byzantium4
Ilkhanate4
Iran4
Mongolia4
Mughals4
Rûm4
Russia4
United States4
Celtica3Ahistorical
Latin Empire3Ahistorical
North Sea3Ahistorical
Al-Andalus3Plausible
Arabia3Plausible
Canada3Plausible
Egypt3Plausible
Germany3Plausible
Italy3Plausible
Malaya3Plausible
Ruthenia3Plausible
Scandinavia3Plausible
Shan3Plausible
Banten3
Bengal3
Deccan3
Delhi3
Ethiopia3
Great Britain3
Gujurat3
Hausa3
Inca3
Kongo3
Manchu3
Maratha3
Mexico3
Poland-Lithuania3
Punjab3
Rajput3
Siam3
Sokoto3
Spain3
Timurids3
Two Sicilies3
Yamato3
Africa2Ahistorical
Carthage2Ahistorical
Hen Ogledd2Ahistorical
Aotearoa2Plausible
Greece2Plausible
Jerusalem2Plausible
Livonia2Plausible
Maya2Plausible
Albania2
Armenia2
Austria2
Ayutthaya2
Bahamis2
England2
Georgia2
Golden Horde2
Holstein2
Ireland2
Navarre2
Nepal2
Netherlands2
Poland2
Prussia2
Scotland2
Serbia2
Sweden2
Switzerland2
Tibet2
Wales2
Connacht1Plausible
Ulster1Plausible
Aïr1
Bavaria1
Beja1
Mazovia1
Mecklenburg1
Mossi1
Nassau1
Northumbria1
Pomerania1
Sardinia1
Saxony1
Silesia1


That's it for today's dev diary. Thanks for reading, and we'll see you next time, where we will talk about Subject Types, and an interesting part of the Castilian player fantasy…
 
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Khwarezmian Empire, Ghurid Empire or Samanid Empire would be nice to tho be locked behind a certain culture group in this case Tajiks.
Durrani Empire Khilji (aka Delhi Sultanat) for Pashtuns.
Khazar Empire for a Turkic or Tatars.
Goguryeo for Koreans.
Cumania in case we have Cumans in the game.
Almoravids and Almohads for Morrocans and Berbers.
Fatimids for Ismaeli (religion base formable)
there are much more but these ones seem quite possible.
 
Hey everyone, and welcome back. Johan is busy today (allegedly) so instead I will walk you through this Tinto Talks on Formable Countries in our little project called Caesar. It’s a fairly tight feature so this should be nice and quick.



What are Formable Countries?

Basically, formable countries are new tags that you can switch to. Typically they represent historical unions and conquests, but some represent aspirations that never materialised.

Generally speaking, the vision behind Formables is to offer roleplaying and historical immersion, and support player fantasies, rather than modifier stacking. They will change your country name, national flag, and map color. So while you may unlock some content such as advances or other minor unique content, the tag change is often the goal in itself.

View attachment 1253582View attachment 1253583
Spain gets some unique advances in the later ages, but not all do.

Rather than your country changing automatically every age, you achieve it by completing certain objectives. Usually, you'll need to control a certain percentage of a predefined set of locations, for example Scandinavia needs 75% of the locations in the Scandinavia region.

There’s typically additional requirements as well such as your Primary Culture belonging to a certain Culture Group. Forming Spain also requires you and all the independent countries in Iberia to be Christian, as it is thematically closely tied to the completion of the Reconquista. Iberian Muslims have the reverse rules for forming Al-Andalus.

Some are directly tied to actions in International Organizations, like the Holy Roman Empire or the Ilkhanate.

Formables also have a Tier that represents their natural order of precedence. You can only form countries that are the same or higher tier than you. For example, England (Tier 2) can form Great Britain (Tier 3) but Great Britain can’t form England. The AI will only form countries that are a higher tier.


View attachment 1253586
Country formation is just a click away.


There are 3 settings to the relevant game rule.
  1. Only Historical Formable Countries
    1. Only countries that actually formed in the game’s time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Spain and Great Britain
  2. Allow Plausible Formable Countries(Default)
    1. Countries that could plausible have formed, or formed just after the time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Germany and Italy
  3. Allow Ahistorical Formable Countries
    1. Aspirational or fantasy countries can be formed. Examples include
      1. North Sea Empire (which is a Tier IV) if you control Britain and Scandinavia
      2. Europa (Tier V)



View attachment 1253589
Some countries have different flags depending on the exact manner in which they are formed. For example this variant of the Union Jack with a dominant saltire when you start as Scotland.


View attachment 1253591
And some formables come with little treats to sweeten the deal.


View attachment 1253592
The Teutonic Order has a long way to go before they can become Prussia…


View attachment 1253593
But it might be worth it…


View attachment 1253594
Some exist to fulfil common player fantasies, but only appear if the player chooses in the Game Rules to have the less historical ones.



This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!

FormableTierNote
Europa5Ahistorical
Rome4Ahistorical
Hindustan4Plausible
Holy Roman Empire4Plausible
Byzantium4
Ilkhanate4
Iran4
Mongolia4
Mughals4
Rûm4
Russia4
United States4
Celtica3Ahistorical
Latin Empire3Ahistorical
North Sea3Ahistorical
Al-Andalus3Plausible
Arabia3Plausible
Canada3Plausible
Egypt3Plausible
Germany3Plausible
Italy3Plausible
Malaya3Plausible
Ruthenia3Plausible
Scandinavia3Plausible
Shan3Plausible
Banten3
Bengal3
Deccan3
Delhi3
Ethiopia3
Great Britain3
Gujurat3
Hausa3
Inca3
Kongo3
Manchu3
Maratha3
Mexico3
Poland-Lithuania3
Punjab3
Rajput3
Siam3
Sokoto3
Spain3
Timurids3
Two Sicilies3
Yamato3
Africa2Ahistorical
Carthage2Ahistorical
Hen Ogledd2Ahistorical
Aotearoa2Plausible
Greece2Plausible
Jerusalem2Plausible
Livonia2Plausible
Maya2Plausible
Albania2
Armenia2
Austria2
Ayutthaya2
Bahamis2
England2
Georgia2
Golden Horde2
Holstein2
Ireland2
Navarre2
Nepal2
Netherlands2
Poland2
Prussia2
Scotland2
Serbia2
Sweden2
Switzerland2
Tibet2
Wales2
Connacht1Plausible
Ulster1Plausible
Aïr1
Bavaria1
Beja1
Mazovia1
Mecklenburg1
Mossi1
Nassau1
Northumbria1
Pomerania1
Sardinia1
Saxony1
Silesia1


That's it for today's dev diary. Thanks for reading, and we'll see you next time, where we will talk about Subject Types, and an interesting part of the Castilian player fantasy…
So I think Franconia or Francia Would be a nice Formabale for any Nation of the Frankish culture. The "Fränkischer Reichskreis" was already an adminstrative Formation inside the HRE. the Frankish people never archieved to unify the many duchies but there were quite some contendors before during the Napoleonic Wars both sides gave Bavaria different parts of the Regions for their Loyalty
 
Anglo-Irish tags yes, as they are part of the British Culture Group. The native Irish culture cannot form Great Britain.
I just had the thought, this seems to imply that the culture requirement for forming Great Britain is "primary culture is in the British culture group". Which makes me wonder what a non-English speaking Great Britain would look like, as the British culture group includes Welsh, Cornish, Highlander, Norse-Gael, and probably Norn.

I hope they all get cool flags, I really like the Scot dominanted Union Jack we are shown here.

Also in eu5 we will be able to form Great Britain as Ireland (provided you are Anglo-Irish) which I think is neat, I wonder what their flag is.
 
Can you add Cordoba as a tier 2 formable for muslim countries in Iberia separated from Al-Andalus? Al-Andalus wasn't a single polity it was a the part of Iberia(and a bit of France) that was controlled by muslim rulers of which the Emirate/Caliphate of Cordoba was part of.
It could be used as a stepping stone for Granada
 
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I would love to be able to form Belgium. It took its independance from the Netherlands before Germany was formed yet it is never formable. I don't think it should be from the start or maybe only under certain conditions. Having flemish or wallonian s primary culture, being catholic (and not protestant).

Furthermore Belgium gained temporarily independance around 1790 under the United Belgian States, a confederation.
 
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I would love to be able to form Belgium. It took its independance from the Netherlands before Germany was formed yet it is never formable. I don't think it should be from the start or maybe only under certain conditions. Having flemish or wallonian s primary culture, being catholic (and not protestant).

Furthermore Belgium gained temporarily independance around 1790 under the United Belgian States, a confederation.

Belgium existed twice within the game's limits in 1789-90 and from 1830 (three times if we count the 1814 general government) i don't see why it couldn't be a formable, that'd be quite disappointing
 
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Belgium's an interesting case, as it seems to be the result of a number of external geopolitical factors, as opposed to other regional/national movements in Europe.

I agree that it should be a formable country, but I don't know how events would best be modelled in a way that feels relatively organic. Flanders and Wallonia absolutely make a ton of sense - as does a 'greater' Luxembourg. The circumstances that led to the creation of Belgium seem incredibly specific though, and were heavily shaped by foreign powers and religious differences (the circumstances of which would seem very hard to re-create). It would be great to see it represented in the game, but it almost doesn't seem right for it to be a distinct formable? Maybe as a 'releasable' tag?
 
Belgium's an interesting case, as it seems to be the result of a number of external geopolitical factors, as opposed to other regional/national movements in Europe.

I agree that it should be a formable country, but I don't know how events would best be modelled in a way that feels relatively organic. Flanders and Wallonia absolutely make a ton of sense - as does a 'greater' Luxembourg. The circumstances that led to the creation of Belgium seem incredibly specific though, and were heavily shaped by foreign powers and religious differences (the circumstances of which would seem very hard to re-create). It would be great to see it represented in the game, but it almost doesn't seem right for it to be a distinct formable? Maybe as a 'releasable' tag?

I'd argue Flanders (in its modern form) and Wallonia are more artificial constructions from the late 19th-early 20th century that couldn't have happened without the Belgian state to develop within.
And while the circumstances around the creation of Belgium are quite specific, isn't it also the case for the Netherlands? As in, a separation from a foreign power after a revolution partly driven by religion?
After all it is also an alt-history game. Wouldn't be outlandish to give Belgium as a formable after reunification as well rather than revolution only, imo
 
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If Livonia can get it's clergy in check, so could a..."Western" Kurland. Jacob von Kettler wasn't just a memelord. Too rich and powerful to be a duke. Too small and poor to be a king.

At tier 4 on the fantasyland scale the same Powerbottom Duchy could become "Real Prussia" because grandparents.

Wendish Empire could be a tier 5 "Unicorn land of funni" of the region.
 
Does chaning rules affect ironman mode? Also is threre any updated list?
 
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