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Pavía

Content Design Lead PDX Tinto
Paradox Staff
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Jan 3, 2006
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Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Talk, the happy Wednesdays where we talk about our entirely super-top-secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

Today, I will be your host instead of Johan since we will be talking about the flavour mechanics. These will be basically IOs, Situations, and Religions, and we will be talking about a bunch of them for some weeks, although from time to time Johan will come back to present some other stuff. So, let’s start without further ado with the Holy Roman Empire, the most convoluted organization invented by mankind only Imperial polity that existed in Western Europe for most of the game period.

In 1337, it’s a very different beast compared to previous installments in other PDX GSGs. The Great Interregnum that started in 1254 after the deaths of Frederick II and Conrad IV of the House of Hohenstaufen, and the double election of two contenders (Richard of Cornwall and Alfonso X of Castile) in 1257 led to a period of weak and diminishing Imperial Authority. In the coming decades, the Houses of Habsburg, Luxembourg, and Wittelsbach would fight for the Imperial election, making the Electorates increasingly more important.

HRE Map.jpg

A beautiful beast! The color code for every country:
  • Yellow: Emperor
  • Light Blue: Prince-Elector
  • Middle Blue: Archbishop-Elector
  • Dark Blue: Imperial Prelates
  • Light Green: Free Imperial Cities
  • Middle Green: Republics
  • Pink/Brownish: Imperial Peasant Republics
  • Grey: Imperial Princes
  • Purple Stripes: Imperial Land not owned by an HRE member
  • Other stripes: Land owned by an HRE member not yet incorporated as Imperial land

Here is an overview of the HRE IO panel and all the different member types that you can find by scrolling down on it:

HRE Panel1.png

Prince-Elector.jpg

Archbishop-Elector.jpg

Free Imperial City.png

Imperial Prelate.jpg

Imperial Peasant Republic.jpg

And here is the sub-panel that show all its members:

HRE Members.png

The HRE comes with a bunch of mechanics and features, which you can easily grasp in the IO’s tooltip:

HRE Tooltip.jpg

HRE Tooltip2.jpg

Let’s start with the most important base feature, the Imperial Authority, which is the currency used by the Holy Roman Emperor to enact Imperial Laws. There are a few sources to either add or subtract Imperial Authority:

Imperial Authority.jpg

Note: the missing +0.01 comes from value rounding which is not reflected in the tooltip.

Imperial Laws create different effects that impact the members of the HRE. At the start, there are only two available:

Imperial Laws.jpg

You may notice that there’s a category, ‘Fundamental Laws’, with only one policy possible, the ‘Golden Bull’. This was the single most important law approved in the HRE, becoming its base political constitution up until its dissolution after being enacted in 1356. In Project Caesar, the Emperor has a very high incentive to pass it as soon as possible, as it unlocks additional laws and actions:

Golden Bull.png

When you have 35 Imperial Authority, you can try to enact it, and a Vote in the Imperial Diet will happen:
Golden Bull vote.jpg

That works quite similarly to country parliaments, as you have to secure a positive vote of the different HRE members:

Golden Bull Diet.png

And this would be the situation after the law passes, with 8 new Imperial Laws available:

Imperial Laws2.jpg

Imperial Laws3.jpg

In general terms, most of the laws have 5 policies available, with the starting ones usually being in the middle positions of the 5. This is how it works (these are 'instructions' in the script):

#With the enactment of the Golden Bull, most HRE laws are set to the 3rd policy which has limited or no modifiers active at all
#The HRE Emperor can try to change the policy to the next adjacent one (so from 3rd tier to 4th or 2nd tier)
#The left tier is the 4th and 5th and is more in favor of benefitting the HRE as a whole
#The right tier is the 2nd and 1st and is more in favor of benefitting the HRE Emperor first and foremost

#Some laws have only 3 policies in which cases there are not pro-Emperor vs pro-Member positions

#The only law which does not follow the rule is the power_of_the_emperor_law which starts at improved_imperial_authority_policy (4) policy.
#The reason for this is to delay the unification of the HRE + there is not much design space for an even further decentralized HRE.
#As such, having 2 policies for the decentralized HRE are not really doable.

# LAW
# Pol 5 Pol 4 Pol 3 Pol 2 Pol 1
# |--------------|--------------|--------------|--------------|

Let’s take as example the Imperial Voting Law:

Electorship Law1.jpg

Electorship Law2.jpg

The Imperial Election is then a key feature, since it elects the Holy Roman Emperor, who then sets all the Imperial Laws, Diets, etc. Here you can see an example of how it works:
Imperial Election.jpg

The King of Bohemia got backed by most of the Electors, and thus, became the Holy Roman Emperor after the death of Ludwig IV of Upper Bavaria.

This event will trigger if a different country gets its ruler elected as Emperor, as in this example:

Imperial Coronation1.jpg

Imperial Coronation2.jpg

One of the factors behind the election is the Dynastic Power, a new value that is currently only used for the HRE mechanics (although it could potentially be used for other IOs, as it’s a scriptable/moddable feature), which impacts the likelihood of a certain country from a powerful dynasty to be elected or re-elected as Emperor:
Dynastic Power1.jpg

Dynastic Power2.jpg

Dynastic Power3.jpg

Last but not least is the Imperial Contribution. It is an amount of money and manpower that any member of the HRE may contribute to the Emperor, who can later spend it in Imperial Actions, and also defending the Empire (in theory…):
Imperial Payments1.jpg

Imperial Payments2.jpg

… And that’s all for today, since it’s already a very long TT! Next week, we will be taking a look at the Catholic Religion and the Catholic Church IO. Cheers!
 
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Wait, why isn't Dithmarschen a Peasant Republic?
We corrected the historical setup, there's an event turning into a Peasant Republic after 1350.
 
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Looks great! I have a small wish regarding flavour in generel, though.

Say France is eclipsed and annexed by a French minor. This minor does not reform France, but occupies the same territory, and is French culture. How much France-flavour does the minor take from France?

I'm really hoping for flavour dynamism like this. Dynamic but culture/region/language/religion specific.
Most of the flavour content for France is attached to the tag, so staying as a minor tag instead of reforming France after killing it would make it not have as much flavour content. We know that some people would prefer these events to be more dynamic, but there are a couple of architectural challenges regarding this that made us decide to go this way. In any case, a bunch of starting content (such as government reforms, policies, etc.) is already tied to culture groups, so the 'structural' flavour content is already available for those countries.
 
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Very meaty TT!

1. Can Imperial Authority be gained or lost via selecting options in events / situations?
2. If your country changes Dynasty, do you lose all Dynastic Power accumulated?
3. Will the option to disband HRE have its own requirments / flavor?
1. Yes.
2. You don't 'lose' it, your country is now ruled by a different dynasty, with a different Dynastic Power accumulated (which might be higher or lower).
3. Yes, there will be a way to disband it, as historically happened.
 
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A beautiful mess!

Is there a mechanism for members to secede or neighboring countries to join the HRE?
Yes, for both.
 
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How long will the HRE elections take? Same as EU4 with immediate succession, or is there a possibility for interregnums?
They're immediately resolved after the death of the former Emperor if there's a majority; if there isn't a majority, then there's an interregnum until there's a majority.
 
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What's up with Valentinous? It is half full grey, half colorless.
It's a bug, it should have a coloring similar to that of those locations owned by Brandenburg that are blue stripes.
 
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Anyway, are there any big reforms possible to reshape how the HRE functions, like trying to make it a universal empire made of Frankia, Germania, Italia and Sclavinia like Otto III wanted, with large swaths of new lands being introduced at once, including some of them getting an elevated position straight away?
Some based on historical situations. For instance, these are the policies possible in the 'Power of the Holy Roman Emperor' law:

Power of the Holy Roman Emperor.png
 
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If powerful enough, can you reform the HRE into one country?
With the 'Renovatio Imperii' policy that I just showed, yes.
 
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Does the state that gets elected as emperor get a rank change, or is it represented through separate mechanics?
(Duchy->Empire)
The country that gets elected as Emperor keeps the same country rank but gets benefits from it, like getting a bonus for the Great Power calculation. In case you unify the HRE after passing the 'Renovatio Imperii' policy, then the new HRE country would be of Empire rank, logically.
 
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View attachment 1278986

If these are the rules, then how can the Kingdom of Bohemia, the Bavarian Duchies, etc. exist?

It would seem logical to me that states would not be able to change their rank on their own, but rather, once they met the conditions, they would ask the Emperor to grant them a rank increase. Then, depending on their attitude towards him, it would be granted or not.
Yes, that will be the way it will work.
 
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I saw catholicism is a religious law. Is it possible to switch it, or do we have to wait until the european wars of religion for that to become possible? Additionally, can you make hindu HRE?
You have to wait until Reformation to change it. It also only supports Christian confessions; otherwise, the Empire wouldn't be Holy. :p
 
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Very interesting, how will allowing both protestants and catholics work ? Will it have to be a really drawn out league war like it did irl(and in eu4) or can the victor just choose to accept both religions ? Also will there be a tinto talks on Building Based Countries ? We haven't seen anything regarding their mechanics other than banking.
Stay tuned to this month's Tinto Talks. :cool:
 
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What does forbidden unjustified wars cover? Just no cb? I think wars in the HRE should mostly be succession based because there wasn't really any time HRE princes attacked each other for land until the 18th century. It was always a claim on a title and seizing that title.
That only wars with a proper CB wars are allowed inside the HRE.
 
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Also, if the Golden Bull gets passed and the Habsburgs forge Privilegium Maius because their tiny egos could not cope with not getting an electoral seat, can other countries expose the forgery and use it as a justification to depose them from their imperial possessions? And/or excommunicate them and/or impale all members of the family?
There's an event chain about the forgery of the Privilegium Maius. ;)
 
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Looks great! But does the Emperor just get the Manpower for himself like in EU4. No Army of the Holy Roman Empire representation?
Right now, no, we abstract the Imperial Army by giving this manpower buff to the Emperor.
 
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