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Tinto Talks #60 - 23rd of April 2025

Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Sant Jordi San Jorge Saint George’s Day Castile and León Day Wednesday where we talk about our entirely super-top-secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

This week, we will be talking about a trending topic: What happens if two (or more) Popes are elected in a Papal Conclave? What makes a man go neutral join the Dark Side nail Ninety-five Theses against indulgences on a church in Wittenberg? How does a general council of the Catholic Church react to this?

Or, in other words, we will be talking today about three historical Situations present in our game: the Western Schism, the Reformation, and the Council of Trent.



The Western Schism

When a Pope dies, some processes need to be started, leaning towards the most important one, the Papal Conclave, which will determine the election of a new Pope:

Papal Death.jpg

Papal Conclave.png

The Pope has died! As shown last week, the special Papal Heir Selection determines that a regency will start, with a clergyman becoming the Head of the Papal Conclave.

If it’s the year 1360 or later, a Schism might strike the Catholic Church, making for a divided election:

Western Schism1.jpg

The Western Schism may be managed in this panel:

Western Schism3.jpg

Where you might see a few things:
  • The contenders - the Papal States (the Pope residing either in Avignon or in Rome) on one side, and the country backing the second Pope on the other.
  • The support gathered by each Pope (which will slowly tick up, until one of them reaches 100% support).
  • The Reform Desire (more on this later).
  • The Curial countries that support each candidate.
  • The available actions.

This is the starting point of the Vote Progress hoverable tooltip (in the panel above, you see the numbers after some months/years have passed):
Vote Progress.jpg

The ‘Unity of Faith’ action:
Unity of Faith.jpg

And this is what happens because of the Curia Actions of the Catholic Church IO being blocked:
Blocked Papal Bulls.jpg

Finally, this is the situation map mode, showing the countries supporting each side:

Papal Contenders.jpg

The French candidate has more support than the current candidate, while Castile is sitting on the fence of the split election.

There will be some possible actions to gather support for each candidate, and some events may trigger randomly during the situation. And after a while, one of the candidates will gather enough support to reunite the Catholic Church again:

Catholic Church United Again.jpg

However, there are more perils for the Catholic Church…



The Reformation

After the year 1510, a certain Augustinian monk will protest against the uses of the Church, starting the Reformation:

The Lutheran Reformation.jpg

Reformation.jpg

The birthplace of the Reformation will be semi-dynamic, there are some weights in place, so it will usually trigger in a different place of the Catholic Christendom. In this case, Martin Luther was serving his duty in Perugia, Italy.

Lutheranism.jpg

The doctrine that a proper Catholic should follow!

This is the starting panel of the situation:
Reformation Panel.jpg

The elements that you can see are:
  • The Lutheran and Catholic pops at each moment.
  • The main active reformers (since all of them are characters that may spawn by event).
  • The Lutheran Preachers, which is a building that may spawn and spread throughout Catholic countries:
Lutheran Preachers.jpg

This might be a situation a year or so after the Reformation starts:
Zwingli.jpg

Ignore the weird graphical bug that we just found while writing this TT, each character has its own different portrait.

Reformation map mode.jpg

A second reformer, Zwingli, appeared in Switzerland, making the Free City of Bern a Lutheran bastion, and also 7 Lutheran Preachers buildings appeared. In the map mode, you can see the countries already converted to Lutheranism, the locations that already have Lutheran pops, and also other Protestant confessions present, such as some Hussites in Bohemia. Ignore the red borders, BTW; some countries decided that the start of the Reformation was a good moment to declare war on me, the Papal States, while preparing the screenshots for this Tinto Talks (traitors and heretics, they are!).

The Reformation may last for a while, because these are its ending triggers:

End Requirements.jpg

Which leads us to the third and final Situation for today:



The Council of Trent

If the Reformation is still active, and the Reform Desire (the modifier I mentioned in the Western Schism situation) is over 50%, the Council of Trent will trigger:

Council of Trent1.jpg

Council of Trent2.jpg

Council of Trent3.jpg

The main point of the Council of Trent is to debate, and eventually approve, some new Laws for the Catholic Church IO; When those Laws are voted and passed, it will end the Council:

Council of Trent4.jpg

Council of Trent5.jpg

And these are some examples of the Laws that are available for voting, each one having different policies that can be set:
Indulgences.jpg

Papal Authority.jpg

Veneration of Saints.jpg

Except for the Papal Authority doctrine, all the policies have proper Latin names, as they should be!


And that’s all for today! We hope that you enjoyed it and that your favourite cardinal becomes Pope. Next week, we will be taking a look at the final part of the Western Christian religious puzzle: the mechanics for the different Protestant confessions, and another situation, the War of Religion. And don’t forget that this Friday we will post the Tinto Flavour with the content for the Military Orders of the Teutonic & Livonian Orders and the Knights Hospitallers. Cheers!
 
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With a permanent split for Catholism being ruled out, I'm guessing preventing the reformation/accepting the reformations criticisms (ie total reformation of the catholic church rather than the religions splitting) are ruled out.


However are stuff like that ruled out as a 'changes the game to much from historical reality and makes balancing incredibly difficult to a point we are ruling this out forever' or a 'we can't add this for release as it's beyond the scope, but we might expand these alt-history options post release '
 
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I feel like the reformation being able to spawn as long as you own a University and don't own Rome could lead to a lot of Italian protestants in gameplay, maybe an additional rule for the likeliness to spawn reformists could be directly related to the Trade Power (or equivalent) that the Pope has in a nation? That could be a good way to represent the relative power that the Pope had for being nearby.

Edit: It could also potentially be a game rule that ties it more or less rigidly to spawning in Germany
 
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3 questions. 1. What if trent is protestant when the council is called? Does it still happens there. 2. Does reformation situation means we get protestantism 100% of the time or it could well lead to the reforms in the church without spliting. 3. Is Luther spawned in as an adult and if not could he die as a child before he decidec to pin some pice of paper to some "random" doors? What then someone else does it I guess
 
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I'm loving the mechanics so far!

I'd like to understand how the game determines where the Reformation starts. It seems counterintuitive that it would start in Italy or Iberian countries, considering their deep historical and cultural ties to the Catholic Church
 
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Is it possible for a pope to be assassinated, because many where historically by many different methods. Some were stabbed, thrown out a window, chucked in the Tibre, or worse, having an aneurysm form talking to J.D Vance!
The Black Death is a great character-killer, too!
 
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The Latin names definitely are flavorful, but I have no idea what they mean.
We relied on one of our fellow devs, @jobarin94 , to deliver them; I hope he knows his Latin well, because I'm too used to the rusty, romanced Medieval variant of it!
 
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How does the Council of Trent voting work? If any Catholic can propose a debate, is there something in place to show that a vote is underway? Maybe like HRE incidents work in EU4 where you get a notification and have a year to take a side? Otherwise the AI could just run through the votes and the council ends before the player can blink.

The rules are majority voting I presume, but can you do anything to influence another country to vote a certain way, or do they just pick a side based on their internal calculations? If the latter, could you describe a bit what makes a country support/oppose one of the sides?
 
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As the Papal States, is there anything about resolving the Schism with the Roman faction that is more appealing than having the situation resolve ASAP even if that means French faction victory? Similarly, are there any lasting effects in the event of a French victory that would uniquely privilege France within the Catholic IO to the detriment of other Catholic powers?
In other words, what’s the motivation for picking one side or another instead of bandwagoning to get it over with to get Curia actions back?
 
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Screenshot 2025-04-23 152243.png


No, he was the theocratic ruler of the Papal State, and Pope of the Catholic Church. Being Pope is a religious title, a Pope remains such even without ruling any actual land.

Otherwise good stuff!
 
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Will each historical Protestant reformer of the time period (Calvin, Knox, etc) spawn their respective denominations as part of the Reformation or is it a randomly-generated person?
Is the nation from which each denomination spawned fixed? I see Luther spawned in Perugia but it would be weird for Puritanism to spawn in say Galicia...
Can protestant denominations merge or have schisms? Anglicanism for instance famously split into Puritanism and that split was a driving force for the English Civil War as well as for the colonization of North America. After the Restoration they kinda merged with Scottish Presbytarianism/Congregationalism and stopped being their own denomination.
Are late-game reformations possible? John Wesley's Methodist branch/The Great Awakenings completely shook up the Protestant churches, and it spread like wildfire in the late 1700's as Great Britain/USA grew in power.
 
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Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Sant Jordi San Jorge Saint George’s Day Castile and León Day Wednesday where we talk about our entirely super-top-secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

This week, we will be talking about a trending topic: What happens if two (or more) Popes are elected in a Papal Conclave? What makes a man go neutral join the Dark Side nail Ninety-five Theses against indulgences on a church in Wittenberg? How does a general council of the Catholic Church react to this?

Or, in other words, we will be talking today about three historical Situations present in our game: the Western Schism, the Reformation, and the Council of Trent.



The Western Schism

When a Pope dies, some processes need to be started, leaning towards the most important one, the Papal Conclave, which will determine the election of a new Pope:

View attachment 1284610
View attachment 1284611
The Pope has died! As shown last week, the special Papal Heir Selection determines that a regency will start, with a clergyman becoming the Head of the Papal Conclave.

If it’s the year 1360 or later, a Schism might strike the Catholic Church, making for a divided election:


The Western Schism may be managed in this panel:


Where you might see a few things:
  • The contenders - the Papal States (the Pope residing either in Avignon or in Rome) on one side, and the country backing the second Pope on the other.
  • The support gathered by each Pope (which will slowly tick down, until one of them reaches 100% support).
  • The Reform Desire (more on this later).
  • The Curial countries that support each candidate.
  • The available actions.

This is the starting point of the Vote Progress hoverable tooltip (in the panel above, you see the numbers after some months/years have passed):

The ‘Unity of Faith’ action:

And this is what happens because of the Curia Actions of the Catholic Church IO being blocked:

Finally, this is the situation map mode, showing the countries supporting each side:

View attachment 1284617
The French candidate has more support than the current candidate, while Castile is sitting on the fence of the split election.

There will be some possible actions to gather support for each candidate, and some events may trigger randomly during the situation. And after a while, one of the candidates will gather enough support to reunite the Catholic Church again:


However, there are more perils for the Catholic Church…



The Reformation

After the year 1510, a certain Augustinian monk will protest against the uses of the Church, starting the Reformation:

View attachment 1284619
View attachment 1284620
The birthplace of the Reformation will be semi-dynamic, there are some weights in place, so it will usually trigger in a different place of the Catholic Christendom. In this case, Martin Luther was serving his duty in Perugia, Italy.

View attachment 1284621
The doctrine that a proper Catholic should follow!

This is the starting panel of the situation:

The elements that you can see are:
  • The Lutheran and Catholic pops at each moment.
  • The main active reformers (since all of them are characters that may spawn by event).
  • The Lutheran Preachers, which is a building that may spawn and spread throughout Catholic countries:

This might be a situation a year or so after the Reformation starts:
View attachment 1284625
Ignore the weird graphical bug that we just found while writing this TT, each character has its own different portrait.

View attachment 1284627
A second reformer, Zwingli, appeared in Switzerland, making the Free City of Bern a Lutheran bastion, and also 7 Lutheran Preachers buildings appeared. In the map mode, you can see the countries already converted to Lutheranism, the locations that already have Lutheran pops, and also other Protestant confessions present, such as some Hussites in Bohemia. Ignore the red borders, BTW; some countries decided that the start of the Reformation was a good moment to declare war on me, the Papal States, while preparing the screenshots for this Tinto Talks (traitors and heretics, they are!).

The Reformation may last for a while, because these are its ending triggers:


Which leads us to the third and final Situation for today:



The Council of Trent

If the Reformation is still active, and the Reform Desire (the modifier I mentioned in the Western Schism situation) is over 50%, the Council of Trent will trigger:


The main point of the Council of Trent is to debate, and eventually approve, some new Laws for the Catholic Church IO; When those Laws are voted and passed, it will end the Council:


And these are some examples of the Laws that are available for voting, each one having different policies that can be set:
View attachment 1284637
View attachment 1284638
View attachment 1284639
Except for the Papal Authority doctrine, all the policies have proper Latin names, as they should be!


And that’s all for today! We hope that you enjoyed it and that your favourite cardinal becomes Pope. Next week, we will be taking a look at the final part of the Western Christian religious puzzle: the mechanics for the different Protestant confessions, and another situation, the War of Religion. And don’t forget that this Friday we will post the Tinto Flavour with the content for the Military Orders of the Teutonic & Livonian Orders and the Knights Hospitallers. Cheers!
What are the starting conditions for the Reformation?
 
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After last week's dev diary responses are there plans to make the Pope more involved in the appointment of cardinals and saints? Also is there right now a maximum number of cardinals at each time?
We want to make some tweaks to the content based on feedback, as we've usually done since we started the Tinto Talks. But we prefer to comment on the specific tweaks after the changes are made, because we think that is the best way of improving the game, with no unrealistic expectations.
 
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