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Tinto Talks #61 - 30th of April 2025

Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesdays where we talk about our entirely super-top-secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

This week, we will examine the mechanics of Protestant religions and the final situation involving all Western Christian confessions, the War of Religions.

First is first, we differentiate the 3 main Protestant religions: Lutheranism, Calvinism, and Anglicanism. All the different branches of Protestantism, more or less strictly covered under these wide denominations, are later represented through Church Aspects, a mechanism we’ll describe now. The underlying system here is for every player to be able to customize their own Protestant Church. As an example, the early Anglican Church funded by Henry VIII was very different from the Anglican Church that developed in times of James I, and the further division that then happened with the Puritans; we aim to portray dynamically these theological aspects with Church Aspects, therefore.

Let’s take a look at a Lutheran country first:

Early Reformation.jpg
I’m using the same save as last week’s TT. The Reformation was born in Perugia, and after a couple of years, it has already spread to some countries, of which Denmark is the biggest.

Here is the overview of Lutheranism and its religious panel:
Lutheranism tooltip.jpg

Lutheranism panel.jpg

Similarly to Catholicism, and other religions, it also uses Religious Influence as a currency:
Religious Influence.jpg

This currency is used to add or change Religious Aspects to your Church, and it also allows us to perform Religious Actions (of which we can’t currently perform any, as we don’t fulfill any of their triggers).

Let’s take a look now at the Religious Aspects, which define each Protestant Church:
Religious Aspect.jpg

There are plenty of Aspects, that can be either shared between the different Protestant religions, or be unique to them. This is the list of all the aspects available to Lutheran churches:
Religious Aspect2.jpg

Religious Aspect3.jpg

Religious Aspect4.jpg

Religious Aspect5.jpg

And this is what it looks like when you decide to pick one of them:
Translated Bibles.jpg

The base number of Religious Aspects that define each Church is 3, although this is subject to review, as usual. And it is possible to have entirely different and unique aspects per religion, since it’s a scriptable/moddable feature. Furthermore, Religious Aspects can have an impact on the relations a country has with others who use Religious Aspects. Since the aspects are partially shared between the faiths, this could lead to unlikely friendships… and hostilities.

Let’s now move on to the next religion, Calvinism, which is quite similar in structure to Lutheranism. It also spawns during the Reformation situation, it also has Calvinist Preachers that spread it, and it also uses Religious Aspects and Actions:
Calvinist Preachers.png

Calvinism tooltip.jpg

Calvinist panel.jpg

Calvin.jpg

Fun fact, Calvin has ended up being the Bishop (=ruler) of Basel in our save game!

Finally, we have Anglicanism. This Protestant religion doesn’t trigger through the situation, but as an event for England that may trigger after the Reformation is active:
Act of Supremacy.jpg

Ignore the broken loc, it appears like that because I used a console command to trigger it.

If we decided to Take command of the Church, a new religion will be created:
Take command of the Church.jpg

Anglicanism2.jpg

This is its overview and panel; Anglicanism starts with some more Religious Actions available:
Anglicanism.jpg

Anglican Religious Actions.jpg

Last, but not least, we have a couple of religions that also share the religious aspects, but are not necessarily tied to the Reformation situation. This includes Lollardy and Hussitism, which will be created together with their corresponding reformer, and the earlier catholic heresies of Bogomilism, Catharism, Paulicianism, and Waldensian.

The last feature we’re going to take a look at today is another situation, the War of Religions. This is the ending to all the narratives related to the Catholic and Protestant Churches, a fight for the religious supremacy over Europe, centered over the Holy Roman Empire, with the Thirty Years' War as inspiration:
War of Religion1.jpg

War of Religion2.jpg

War of Religion3.jpg

Two International Organizations will be created, the Protestant Union and the Catholic League:
Protestant Union.jpg

Catholic League.jpg

And this is the panel for the situation, which both sides, their relative strengths, the possibility to join one side or the other, etc.:
War of Religion4.jpg

An inconclusive result may lead to the negotiation of the Peace of Westphalia between the members of both Leagues and will alter the religious laws of the Holy Roman Empire.

… And that’s all for today! Next week, @Johan will come back once again to show more of the most recent changes and tweaks in the game. Cheers!
 
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Is the League War still hardcoded around what will now be Lutheranism, or can the other post-1054 faiths win out if you cultivate enough influence or military power? I'm just thinking of how painful that Hussite HRE achievement was.
No, it works if there's any country professing a Protestant religion - and we have defined as 'Protestants' the following: Lollardism, Hussitism, Lutheranism, Calvinism, and Anglicanism.
 
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huh, that's very odd. How did you come up with the Bread and Wine Aspect? On what did you base it on? It feels, at least to my knowledge, that the naming and the bonus is very un-Protestant-like. Even worse, entertainment and pleasure were one of the core ideas & sins that the Protestant thinking accoused the Cathloc Papists of....
 
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The Protestants do feel not massively different from EU4 - there were 3 Protestant denominations, Protestant, Reformed, and Anglican, and here again it's represented as 3 denominations, with Protestant and Reformed just renamed to Lutheranism and Calvinism. The use of Church Aspects is also very similar.

Lutheranism tooltip.jpg

The description for Lutheranism should mention all 5 Solas, not just Sola Scriptura since that isn't the only core tenet. Something like "It teaches that salvation is achieved through Scripture Alone, Faith Alone, Grace Alone, Christ Alone, and Glory to God Alone, known as the 5 Solas.", or perhaps "through the 5 Solas, meaning 'only', which empasise the rejection of extraneous elements added by the Catholic Church".

Act of Supremacy.jpg

The historical context infobox here is wrong, Henry VIII didn't execute Wolsey. Wolsey was accused of treason and ordered to travel to London, but fell seriously ill with dysentery and died on the way.
Could you show us what the other event option does? Is there some sort of consequence from pro-Protestant forces or is the only impact that you don't get to become Anglican (and the Pope possibly likes you a bit more)? Also, "supremacy of Papal States" is awkward phrasing, what if instead it said "Accept the supremacy of Rome" (or whatever the Pope's capital happens to be, should it have been conquered and moved elsewhere).

Anglicanism.jpg

I feel the description should make some mention of its specific origin in England, after all that's literally what it's named for, and its impact and spread was directly tied to the Kingdom of England.

What does the religious action "Progress of the Supreme Govenor" do?
 
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No, it works if there's any country professing a Protestant religion - and we have defined as 'Protestants' the following: Lollardism, Hussitism, Lutheranism, Calvinism, and Anglicanism.
I guess that means no Anabaptists, and thus only Magisterial Reformists are being portrayed, leaving out the entire Radical Reformation?
You should also throw Waldensians onto that list as they actually joined into Protestantism after the Reformation.
 
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Is the War of Religions just one war again? It would be cool if it could be made so that when one country leading a league is defeated another can take its place and declare another war. So that it can simulate Danish-> Swedish-> French phases.
 
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1) Just so we're clear - this means only England will be able to start their own church due to wanting a divorce?
If so, will it be possible for mods to make this possible for any country?
*annulment

Also let it be known that the Church of England under Henry VIII remained almost completely identical liturgically and theologically as to how it was before the Act of Supremacy. There was barely a whiff of Protestant theology until he died.

Anglicanism as we know it did not come to be until Edward VI with the abolition of the Latin Mass and the promulgation of the English-language Book of Common Prayer.
 
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Can Lutherans and Calvinists obtain their own holy sites or are those shared between all Christian religions?
We haven't defined any (yet), so we're open to suggestions about any (if considered a good idea by the community).
 
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Screenshot 2025-04-30 073556.png

Just wanted to point out Hegemony is misspelled

Screenshot 2025-04-30 073625.png

This reads weird "the only truth is the *Catholicism faith", Would it not be more accurate to read "the only truth is the Catholic faith"
 
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Since Anglicanism is sort of a national church, is there something to slow down non-english/non-british culture pops from converting to Anglicanism? I always thought it was weird when in EU4 the Mayans converted to Anglicanism.
 
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Can we at least rename our Protestant sect? What I mean is, you can say that all these are Protestant offshoots are the same in nature, but the Pacifist Lutherans of Peacewannaland can be very different with Armed Zealot Lutherans of Makewarania.

Or at least some dynamic name of "Brandenburger Sect" or "Alpine Sect" or "The Bohemian Defenestrators" or something.
 
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huh, that's very odd. How did you come up with the Bread and Wine Aspect? On what did you base it on? It feels, at least to my knowledge, that the naming and the bonus is very un-Protestant-like. Even worse, entertainment and pleasure were one of the core ideas & sins that the Protestant thinking accoused the Cathloc Papists of....
This has to do with the Latin Church withholding the wine from the people allowing them only to partake of communion in one kind, meaning bread. Luther and the other reformers (drawing from Jan Hus) insisted that Communion must be in both kinds, that is to say, both bread and wine not just bread. This was taken from Scripture where Christ commands the apostles to "take eat" and "take drink".
 
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Regarding the requirements for the peace of westphalia, I'd say that instead of just 80% of all participants, better if you also take into account the power of those participants. Even more so taking into account that the HRE is full of small states. Maybe you could add some requirement related to the pops those states have, so that it's 80% but those states at least have x% of pops. (A bit like how the EU qualified majority voting works)
 
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Could be cool once the Religious War situation starts to have HRE countries, that are protestant/with large protestant population and also in a PU led by a Catholic ruler, declare an independence war and choose a protestant elector as the new PU partner. Basically the Bohemian Revolt but generic so it can happen to anyone if the circumstances are right.
 
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No, it works if there's any country professing a Protestant religion - and we have defined as 'Protestants' the following: Lollardism, Hussitism, Lutheranism, Calvinism, and Anglicanism.
what is the threshold you use to define when a protestant religion has become strong enough within the HRE to activate the Union/League formation?
 
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We haven't defined any (yet), so we're open to suggestions about any (if considered a good idea by the community).
What about some dynamic holy sites based on where they spawn first? Is that possible?
 
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