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Tinto Talks #9 - 24th of April 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, this is the 9th of its kind, where we talk about our very secret game using the codename Project Caesar. And today we continue with the 3rd of the 4 talks we have now about the economy systems of the game. So lets start..

Constructions
In the previous development diary, we mentioned constructions and how you needed lumber for expanding the mines. In this game, almost all constructions require different materials to progress, and if that material is not available in the local market, then that construction is stalled until the material is available. This includes things like road building, shipbuilding, recruiting regiments, building buildings, or expanding R.G.O’s.

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Not sure why you want another monastery?

For example, building a light ship in the Age of Renaissance requires Naval Supplies, Lumber, Weaponry, Copper, Tin, and Metalworks, while moving your capital requires Paper, Books, Stone, Lumber, Marble, and gold.


Buildings
Buildings are rather important in Project Caesar. There are hundreds of different types of buildings, some can only be built in rural locations, and some require a town or city. Some can only be built in ports, and some can only be built in other countries. Some you can only build when there is no owner of a location. Lots of buildings are unique to cultures, regions, religions, or even to specific tags.

Some buildings can only have 1 level, some have a fixed cap, and some have a cap that scales with the population or development, and so on.

Buildings can also be categorized into three different categories: buildings that can produce goods, buildings that only give effects, and buildings that can only be built by the estates. Those pure estates usually have a drawback to them as well, and it's not easy to remove them

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Definitely not something we are all that keen on having in here.. it does increase demands for some goods though..

So what about producing buildings then? This is where the truly fun parts of the economy start. Project Caesar has a large amount of different goods. We currently have about 70 different ones that have different needs, some are needed for the military, some are needed solely by pops, some are needed for buildings, and so on.

Producing Buildings in towns and cities go from guilds and workshops to manufactories and mills at the of the game. These include everything from Paper Makers Guilds to Foundries. A producing building outputs one or more types of goods.

Finally, we have buildings that are purely giving an effect. These include Granaries that increase how much food you can store, libraries that increase literacy, different types of forts, buildings that train manpower, port buildings to help with shipbuilding, and much more.

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Some claim you can build Stockades of wood, but we trust only stone!

Almost all buildings though, have a production method, which impacts how they work.

Production methods
All buildings have at least one production method slot with one production method, but many have different methods in each slot, and there are plenty of buildings with multiple production method slots.

What is a production method then?
A production method is a list of goods that are required for a building to function. There are two categories of production methods, those that produce something and those that do not.
As an example, a Castle does not produce any goods, but it still requires Stone, Metalworks, Weaponry, and Tar to function, and if it does not get those goods, then the Castle will not function properly. The effectiveness of a building is based on the lowest available percentage of goods present, and it will only purchase and use required materials in that percentage required. If the market cannot supply enough resources, then it will not work.

The output of the producing building is also scaled by the percentage mentioned above.

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There are a few options here, but only wood pulp would be profitable here, probably because of the great supply of lumber in this market..

And of course, you can automate the production method selection, which will adapt it on a monthly basis based on what resources are available and what would be profitable. The UI also allows for macro decisions regarding production methods

Other important aspects
Every building requires employed pops to function as well, and those that require “upper class” pops like burghers, clergy, and nobles, also increase the potential for them in the location, making pops slowly promoted. This can be slightly awkward as powerful nobles or clergy construct more buildings that make them more numerous and powerful.


Producing buildings that are not profitable will be closed, and pops will work in other buildings, however, you can always subsidize a building if you require the goods or other benefits it gives.

Speaking of profit. The profit of a building is added to the Tax Base of a location, split among the power of the population in the location.

You can always close and open a building, if you want to manipulate prices, or if you want your pops to work with other things, and you don’t want to destroy a building permanently.



We mentioned last week about different ways to get raw materials, and one way to get it, besides trade, is through a set of rural buildings. These include Lumber Mills that you can build in any wood or forest location to produce lumber, sheep farms, stone quarries, and many more.

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Yeah, this requires some input.. Might be worth it..


There are stockpiles of goods, but those are in the market. There are buildings you can build that increase the amount they can store, as if you do not have the goods required for a building, unit, or construction, those will not function.

Speaking of markets, that is something we will talk about more next week when we delve deep into the trade system.
 
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Back when India was 1/3 the amount of provinces and only one culture, that felt very colonialist. I don't think the British cared much about the different subcultures of Africa, India or Southeast Asia. They just wanted to know what goods they could steal and sell off back home.
This is hilarious. How can someone be so close to the point but then go ahead and misunderstand it so completely?
 
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The process to produce paper from wood pulp wasn't invented until the end of the 18th century and did not become widespread until the 19th. Why is it available here?

because it lists all that exists?

in the game its unlocked in a tech in the 2nd half of the 18th century
 
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well i see no issue in that .
- they are proven to be good
- the game dont need to create totally new mechanics for something that work fine elsewhere nor copy past them , they feel inspired without being the same like how this one feels similar to the imperator rome way but also like anno1800 way .
- it give depth in game so we can be busy in peace times and not just go after wars . the game have now the vic/anno element that is a genre on its own and give the game a whole new layer
- the game being like this makes it now the best game for modding , it already have a vanilla middle age era in it so if you want and EU&CK mod its possible , it have globalisation , ressources , industry , science , so if you want an antiquity mod thats possible . bronze age same . fantasy ? even better.
i personally have plans for a big mod that i tested on ck2 but wanted to make on ck3 and vic3 but realised that both games doesnt have the mechanics i want . this game does

i also dont think it will be as intimidating or complex as it sound and its too early to judge we have yet to delve onto gameplay all of this for now is just basic teases like they show us how they look but we still dont know how its blended in the game and how we will use it
Let's hope for the best. I'm just afraid that we're being taken over here. Unfortunately there hasn't been much good from PDX recently imo
 
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So glad you're keeping zone of control. It makes winning a war much more costly and challenging even when you're much stronger than your enemy. You can't just rush a capital and end a war within a couple months.
 
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Zone of control also has the benefit of making it less tedious to siege in general, since I think it was mentioned that this game shares I:R's once-you-siege-every-fort-in-a-province-you-occupy-the-whole-province mechanic.

It just speeds things up so much in general.
 
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Will there be building slots like in EU4/CK3? I can foresee myself being absolutely livid if these autonomous estates waste a limited slot on some random building I don't actually want.

no
 
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I love this, it provides a much deeper simulation and hence gameplay for peace time.

Quick question though: Say a paper mill produces 1 unit of paper. As I understand, the profit from the mill is added to the locations tax. But only if the unit of paper is sold on the market to another country? If all of my buildings and pop require a cumulative total of 1 unit of paper, the mill would not provide profit?

If the prices of the goods used to make the paper is less than the price it get from selling the paper at the market (to whomever, your own pops, buildings or a trader or another countries pops in same marker or whatever.), then that difference is the profit.
 
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Would as an example of specific culture/tag buldings, the Dutch culture/tag get to build polders as unique building option for them in wetland/marsh locations to improve food and/or agricultural production at that location?

yes
 
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because it lists all that exists?

in the game its unlocked in a tech in the 2nd half of the 18th century
Is it then possible to tech rush enough to unlock a new production type meaningfully ahead of your competitors and produce everything at a lower cost?

In-game you're never really far ahead of other countries in Europe in terms of tech due to the insane "Ahead of Time" modifier, and so even as the first one to ever reach a tech you're only on top for around 10 years before other countries catch up to you. Historically there were still huge technological disparities in terms of production methods from the beginning to the end of the game. Wood-base papermaking especially took almost half a century to go from scientific curiosity to industrial machinery, and then another couple decades to actually become popular outside of Germany.

It seems like the possibility of entirely different materials used for the same output has massive possibilities for really cool economic maneouvering, but it can't be that in no time after I discover a different production method everyone else has it too
 
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way way back, in Victoria 1, you colonized by building forts, could be something simillar
I think it's more likely that you can build things in passage locations, since those aren't permanently settled.
 
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If the prices of the goods used to make the paper is less than the price it get from selling the paper at the market (to whomever, your own pops, buildings or a trader or another countries pops in same marker or whatever.), then that difference is the profit.
A trader?!?! So excited for next week’s diary!